Outfit and method of entry

[Brietta]

And without the phone call there was the unappealing prospect of Barbara Wilson discovering the crime. She disliked Jeremy, Nevill had told her he was capable of anything and "must not turn my back on that young man"

So they might have investigated him more closely than he would have liked?

Even without the benefit of hindsight I can't believe that the cremations didn't raise a bit of suspicion.

I'm new to this and don't know the family background ... were all their relations buried in the churchyard?

[steve_trousers]

Sheila, Nevill and June were buried in the local churchyard, the twins were buried in a separate service in north London. Or were they cremated, i'm not sure on that point

[Caroline]

I think he over egged the pudding and but for his desperation to frame Sheila and being a bit of a drama queen I think he might well have got off with it all.

He didn't have to allege there had been a phone call.
He didn't have to leave the house apparently secure ... there are plenty of crimes associated with intruders to farms ... so he chose the wrong narrative.

All he had to do was act normally and either wait for the crime to be discovered the next day or if he couldn't wait for that go out to the farm and make the 'discovery' himself.
His only problem would have been that a closer forensic examination would have been carried out at the time but the majority of traces left by him would have been easily dismissed as being legitimate.

The phone call was his alibi, if he was home talking to Nevill then he couldn't have been at WHF shooting the family.

[Myster]

Sheila, Nevill and June were buried in the local churchyard, the twins were buried in a separate service in north London. Or were they cremated, i'm not sure on that point

Wrong way round.  Sheila, Nevill and June were cremated at Colchester crematorium around 11 miles from St. Nicholas' Church.  The twins were buried together in a white coffin, along with the ashes of Sheila at their head in Highgate Cemetery.

[steve_trousers]

Wrong way round.  Sheila, Nevill and June were cremated at Colchester crematorium around 11 miles from St. Nicholas' Church.  The twins were buried together in a white coffin, along with the ashes of Sheila at their head in Highgate Cemetery.

Of course they were. Thank you Myster.

[Caroline]

Sheila, Nevill and June were buried in the local churchyard, the twins were buried in a separate service in north London. Or were they cremated, i'm not sure on that point

Nevill and June were cremated and have a memorial at the local church yard. Sheila was also cremated on Bambers say so and her ashes were buried with the twins in Highgate cemetery. Bamber didn't control what happened to Nicholas and Daniel.

[Holly Goodhead]

I'm not sure why you think that blood from gunshot wounds selectively contaminates the gun or rifle barrel from which the killing bullet was fired.
Do you think that is what normally happens in shootings?

I don't think it is possible to put seven bullets into one person's body one of which was right between the eyes or to put eight bullets into another and bludgeoning him for good measure - all at close range - without leaving behind a scene resembling a blood bath.         

Back spatter from gunshot wound travels against the line of fire.  Given a rifle is closer to victims than perp why would perp sustain back spatter if rifle doesn't?

Back spatter from gunshot wound, aka as high velocity impact spatter, isn't a one size fits all.  It depends on many factors particularly calibre of firearm and velocity of ammo.

If high velocity impact spatter was present in this case why would it just present on perp and not ceilings, walls, floors, furnishings and fittings?  Where were the void patterns left by perp? 

For over a month the investigation proceeded as 4 murders/suicide.  Noone at soc noted a lack of back spatter on SC's person/nightdress: senior investigating officers, firearms officers, soc officers and police surgeon.

[Nicholas]

Back spatter from gunshot wound travels against the line of fire.  Given a rifle is closer to victims than perp why would perp sustain back spatter if rifle doesn't?

Back spatter from gunshot wound, aka as high velocity impact spatter, isn't a one size fits all.  It depends on many factors particularly calibre of firearm and velocity of ammo.

If high velocity impact spatter was present in this case why would it just present on perp and not ceilings, walls, floors, furnishings and fittings?  Where were the void patterns left by perp? 

For over a month the investigation proceeded as 4 murders/suicide.  Noone at soc noted a lack of back spatter on SC's person/nightdress: senior investigating officers, firearms officers, soc officers and police surgeon.

https://physicsworld.com/a/the-physics-of-blood-spatter/

[Caroline]

Back spatter from gunshot wound travels against the line of fire.  Given a rifle is closer to victims than perp why would perp sustain back spatter if rifle doesn't?

Back spatter from gunshot wound, aka as high velocity impact spatter, isn't a one size fits all.  It depends on many factors particularly calibre of firearm and velocity of ammo.

If high velocity impact spatter was present in this case why would it just present on perp and not ceilings, walls, floors, furnishings and fittings?  Where were the void patterns left by perp? 

For over a month the investigation proceeded as 4 murders/suicide.  Noone at soc noted a lack of back spatter on SC's person/nightdress: senior investigating officers, firearms officers, soc officers and police surgeon.

Possibly not much from the gun shot wounds but battering someone's head would certainly cause splashes.

[Brietta]

Back spatter from gunshot wound travels against the line of fire.  Given a rifle is closer to victims than perp why would perp sustain back spatter if rifle doesn't?

Back spatter from gunshot wound, aka as high velocity impact spatter, isn't a one size fits all.  It depends on many factors particularly calibre of firearm and velocity of ammo.

If high velocity impact spatter was present in this case why would it just present on perp and not ceilings, walls, floors, furnishings and fittings?  Where were the void patterns left by perp? 

For over a month the investigation proceeded as 4 murders/suicide.  Noone at soc noted a lack of back spatter on SC's person/nightdress: senior investigating officers, firearms officers, soc officers and police surgeon.

I'm going with the logic of members who have pointed out that any blood spatter could be cleaned off the smooth metal barrel without much effort although he seems to have missed some on the sound moderator.

It is unfortunate that the authorities screwed up on the forensics for over a month he so nearly got away with it as a result.  But fortunately that gross error was rectified with in my opinion the help of the man himself who instead of clearing up when he could was instead so arrogant and sure of himself that he left clues to his MO lying around.  Such as the saw blade showing how he got in and failing to repair the faulty window catch showing how he got out.

[Brietta]

https://physicsworld.com/a/the-physics-of-blood-spatter/

This diagram demonstrates three possible trajectories that could be mapped from back-spatter blood stains depending on what phenomena are taken into account. Straight-line paths (red), which do not account for gravity and drag, overestimate the height of impact. When drag is not considered (blue) the paths fall short. BPA needs to take into account both gravity and drag (black) to get a more accurate estimate of where the bullet impacted.

___________________________________________________________________

Seems clear enough when a person is standing ... I wonder what it looks like if the victim is lying down.

[Holly Goodhead]

I'm going with the logic of members who have pointed out that any blood spatter could be cleaned off the smooth metal barrel without much effort although he seems to have missed some on the sound moderator.

It is unfortunate that the authorities screwed up on the forensics for over a month he so nearly got away with it as a result.  But fortunately that gross error was rectified with in my opinion the help of the man himself who instead of clearing up when he could was instead so arrogant and sure of himself that he left clues to his MO lying around.  Such as the saw blade showing how he got in and failing to repair the faulty window catch showing how he got out.

Why would he remove blood from the smooth metal barrel?  In any event it was found resting on SC's body complete with blood stains.

What aspects did the authorities screw up on?  Afaik all physical evidence was collected from soc, given an exhibit number and forwarded to forensics other than the silencer.

Officers found all windows and doors either locked or secured from within.  It was later claimed a window existed that JB could have exited securing it shut from the outside but no one for the defence, judge or jury had an opportunity to see how this worked in practice.

[Holly Goodhead]

This diagram demonstrates three possible trajectories that could be mapped from back-spatter blood stains depending on what phenomena are taken into account. Straight-line paths (red), which do not account for gravity and drag, overestimate the height of impact. When drag is not considered (blue) the paths fall short. BPA needs to take into account both gravity and drag (black) to get a more accurate estimate of where the bullet impacted.

___________________________________________________________________

Seems clear enough when a person is standing ... I wonder what it looks like if the victim is lying down.

The heading at the top of the diagram is entitled:

2. Shortfalls with blood pattern analysis

Blood spatter is dependent on many factors:

- calibre of firearm
- velocity of ammunition
- distance of shot
- wound site

Whether perps sustain any blood spatter is also dependent on length of barrel.  A perp with a handgun is much closer to target than a perp with a long rifle.

One can see from soc images and testimony from all those at soc that the murders did not generate any high impact back spatter.

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly can't help living in forensic fantasy world, so you have to make allowances.

What forensic fantasy world would that be?

[Caroline]

The heading at the top of the diagram is entitled:

2. Shortfalls with blood pattern analysis

Blood spatter is dependent on many factors:

- calibre of firearm
- velocity of ammunition
- distance of shot
- wound site

Whether perps sustain any blood spatter is also dependent on length of barrel.  A perp with a handgun is much closer to target than a perp with a long rifle.

One can see from soc images and testimony from all those at soc that the murders did not generate any high impact back spatter.

I doubt Jeremy would have blood on him from the GSW but certainly from battering Nevill.