Outfit and method of entry

[Holly Goodhead]

5 dead, blood splattered bodies, in the house he just come from.

The barrel of the rifle was closer to victims when they sustained gunshot wounds than the perp.  If the wounds were generating back spatter it wold have presented on the rifle but the blood on the rifle was so minimal it wasn't even possible to group.  And the blood on the rifle may have originated from NB"s gunshot wounds when he was beaten with a blunt instrument thought to have been the rifle.

[Holly Goodhead]

We know there was plenty of spatter inside the silencer. Regardless of the volume of blood, Jeremy wasn't about to take any risks. Makes sense to have a shower.

The blood flake supposedly found in the silencer measuring a 1/4 of an inch is highly contentious.  There's no evidence it the drawback phenomenon occurs with the rifle/ammo/silencer combi.

[steve_trousers]

The blood flake supposedly found in the silencer measuring a 1/4 of an inch is highly contentious.  There's no evidence it the drawback phenomenon occurs with the rifle/ammo/silencer combi.

It will remain highly contentious for some, convincing evidence for most. Hence his just conviction.

If the silencer had been placed in an evidence bag as per correct procedure then the grey hair attached to it may never have been lost. It's the only fault I can find with DS Jones in the entire investigation.

[Holly Goodhead]

It will remain highly contentious for some, convincing evidence for others.

If the silencer had been placed in an evidence bag as per correct procedure then the grey hair attached to it may never have been lost. It's the only fault I can find with DS Jones in the entire investigation.

I believe new forensic tests will finish off the so-called silencer evidence.

The biologist, John Hayward, thought the lost hair was of liitle evidential value.

[Brietta]

So how do you account for the fact that so little blood was found on the rifle that it wasn't even possible to type and yet the blood flake supposedly found inside the silencer measuring a 1/4 of an inch was!?

Why would the perp sustain blood on his her person/clothes if the rifle only contained small traces?

I'm not sure why you think that blood from gunshot wounds selectively contaminates the gun or rifle barrel from which the killing bullet was fired.
Do you think that is what normally happens in shootings?

I don't think it is possible to put seven bullets into one person's body one of which was right between the eyes or to put eight bullets into another and bludgeoning him for good measure - all at close range - without leaving behind a scene resembling a blood bath.         

[Caroline]

So how do you account for the fact that so little blood was found on the rifle that it wasn't even possible to type and yet the blood flake supposedly found inside the silencer measuring a 1/4 of an inch was!?

Why would the perp sustain blood on his her person/clothes if the rifle only contained small traces?

A rifle isn't porous and doesn't soak up liquid, clothing does.

[Inspector Gadget]

To try and argue that the person wouldn’t have any blood on them is one of the craziest things I’ve read so far.... but why doesn’t that surprise me.
🙄


quote author=Holly Goodhead link=topic=11231.msg573888#msg573888 date=1581633997]
Where's the evidence that suggests the perp would have sustained blood to his/her person/clothes?
[/quote]

[Myster]

To try and argue that the person wouldn’t have any blood on them is one of the craziest things I’ve read so far.... but why doesn’t that surprise me.
🙄


quote author=Holly Goodhead link=topic=11231.msg573888#msg573888 date=1581633997]
Where's the evidence that suggests the perp would have sustained blood to his/her person/clothes?

Holly can't help living in forensic fantasy world, so you have to make allowances.

[barrier]

Until the very moment a heart stops beating is there not blood pressure still in the body to project blood from a gun shot wound,was Sheilas body contaminated with her father's blood at the very least, seeing as she was according to Bamber the one who would have given him a right shellacking.

[Inspector Gadget]

Holly can't help living in forensic fantasy world, so you have to make allowances.

It’s with absolutely no surprise that with a mentality like that his appeals continue to fail. You can picture it now :
- Sheila was dusting the curtains as the house was surrounded by armed police.
- Sheila shot NB downstairs just as the police burst in.
- then run upstairs and shot herself in the neck
- damn, the shot didn’t kill her but by this point she was incapacitated so the dog, was was barking furiously nearby, hopped onto the trigger to finish her off.
- the dog then picked up the silencer like a fresh newspaper and delivered it back to the cupboard after licking off the prints and tiny amount of blood.
- the 5 bodies , who were violently shot, soaked up the blood that their gunshot wounds like a sponge,  which meant that absolutely nobody would have had any blood on them. 

Any closing arguments?

- yes unless you was there you don’t know what happened therefore you can’t say he is guilty. I say we reconstruct the scene, just how we want to, to prove it was the dog and Sheila.

But no witnesses are alive to verify your scene?

- It doesn’t matter. Jeremy said so.

What about the phone call where he tied himself in knots in his statement and implicated himself ? The moved phones and off the hook would have meant the line was open ?
- it’s normal to dial local police station when you think your family is about you be Shot. Infact I would be so relaxed I would call my girlfriend first to flirt to make me feel better as I was nervous.
- and NB did make that call, the police are just withholding records and there was a miraculous cut off the line that allowed me to dial back out immediately.

What about the last person to see and touch the gun? That was Jeremy wasn’t it?
- no it’s NB fault. He has a gun cupboard so should have counted them all before he went to bed. He left a fully loaded gun out with kids in the house so that his daughter could wake up in the night and shoot everybody of course!

What about his ability to enter the farm without a key via windows ??
- yeah but that’s ok; he done it so many times it’s normal. You need to treat it as a front door for Jeremy because he could do it so easily. It’s not evidence.


INNOCENT!

I award you £30m that you can now go and spend on all these loyal women that have defended you online....

WHAT! Nah sod that, I’m off to south of France to find myself a young bit of stuff. Heard there’s some good looking guys there. You’re all BLOCKED!

Jeremy then wakes up in a cold sweat at the thought of all these lonely women pestering him once he gets out; changes his please to guilty and spends the rest of his miserable days in the cell where he has spent the past 35 years .

THE END

[Brietta]

I think he over egged the pudding and but for his desperation to frame Sheila and being a bit of a drama queen I think he might well have got off with it all.

He didn't have to allege there had been a phone call.
He didn't have to leave the house apparently secure ... there are plenty of crimes associated with intruders to farms ... so he chose the wrong narrative.

All he had to do was act normally and either wait for the crime to be discovered the next day or if he couldn't wait for that go out to the farm and make the 'discovery' himself.
His only problem would have been that a closer forensic examination would have been carried out at the time but the majority of traces left by him would have been easily dismissed as being legitimate.

[steve_trousers]

I think he over egged the pudding and but for his desperation to frame Sheila and being a bit of a drama queen I think he might well have got off with it all.

He didn't have to allege there had been a phone call.
He didn't have to leave the house apparently secure ... there are plenty of crimes associated with intruders to farms ... so he chose the wrong narrative.

All he had to do was act normally and either wait for the crime to be discovered the next day or if he couldn't wait for that go out to the farm and make the 'discovery' himself.
His only problem would have been that a closer forensic examination would have been carried out at the time but the majority of traces left by him would have been easily dismissed as being legitimate.

I think you are right, the phone call sunk him in many ways, a symptom of his arrogance. It was just so important for him to be there, centre stage during the siege, dropping suggestions to unsuspecting officers about movement in the window, reminding them all what a nutter his sister was.
2 things went wrong for him that night, Nevill last stand and Sheila shooting herself twice. I can see the sense in the suggestion the phone call was a last minute invention. And why on earth would this boy racer be overtaken by the local constabulary when "his sister has gone crazy and got the gun"

 

[steve_trousers]

It’s with absolutely no surprise that with a mentality like that his appeals continue to fail. You can picture it now :
- Sheila was dusting the curtains as the house was surrounded by armed police.
- Sheila shot NB downstairs just as the police burst in.
- then run upstairs and shot herself in the neck
- damn, the shot didn’t kill her but by this point she was incapacitated so the dog, was was barking furiously nearby, hopped onto the trigger to finish her off.
- the dog then picked up the silencer like a fresh newspaper and delivered it back to the cupboard after licking off the prints and tiny amount of blood.
- the 5 bodies , who were violently shot, soaked up the blood that their gunshot wounds like a sponge,  which meant that absolutely nobody would have had any blood on them. 

Very good, there is one more amusing detail that free Bamber also promotes. The soles of her feet were found clean, indicating she had not been in the kitchen which was like a war zone, covered in broken crockery and raw sugar.

Their explanation? she must have had a quick shower or bath before shooting herself twice

[Inspector Gadget]

I think he over egged the pudding and but for his desperation to frame Sheila and being a bit of a drama queen I think he might well have got off with it all.

He didn't have to allege there had been a phone call.
He didn't have to leave the house apparently secure ... there are plenty of crimes associated with intruders to farms ... so he chose the wrong narrative.

All he had to do was act normally and either wait for the crime to be discovered the next day or if he couldn't wait for that go out to the farm and make the 'discovery' himself.
His only problem would have been that a closer forensic examination would have been carried out at the time but the majority of traces left by him would have been easily dismissed as being legitimate.

It’s a difficult one and in hindsight you are right due to the lack of forensic, but only he would have known that he was there at that point so he would have been petrified of so much of his forensics there if they secured the scene. He was actually clever to do a fake alibi but he just didn’t legislate for the phone line being open which made his immediate call out statement a lie, nor did he legislate for the silencer being too long to pull the trigger. He must have really panicked at that point but again was still so close to getting away with it. The rushed cremations was clever, as was the well hidden silencer. He just didn’t clean it properly. And stupidly he told Julie about accessing via windows which he failed to declare to the police who were first on the scene, so later on he just looked like a liar as he told them there was no way in without a key.

[steve_trousers]

And without the phone call there was the unappealing prospect of Barbara Wilson discovering the crime. She disliked Jeremy, Nevill had told her he was capable of anything and "must not turn my back on that young man"