The phone call

[Holly Goodhead]

Only her arm was moved so nothing to release.

Yes officers admitted to lifting SC's arm at soc to photograph some bloodstaining from her wrist area.  But what they didn't admit to doing at soc, and prior to photographs being taken, is pulling at her feet as per expert testimony from Dr Martyn Ismail a forensic scientist:

518. To decide whether we considered that the interests of justice required that we heard Mr Ismail's evidence, we first had regard to the evidence that it was said that he could give. From the blood staining he concluded that following the second and fatal shot Sheila Caffell was lying almost flat on her back with her head propped against a bedside cabinet. For her then to slide to be found in the position depicted in the photographs would have required the downward force to be greater than the friction of her body against the floor. In his opinion this simply was not possible as there would only be the weight of the head providing the downward force. Therefore he concluded that an additional force would have been necessary. It could not have come from Sheila Caffell since the second shot would have been instantly fatal and thus she must have been moved by someone else, for example with her legs being pulled. He also considered that the weight and the friction between her skin and her nightdress was likely to have been less than the weight and friction between the nightdress and the carpet. Therefore, he would expect movement of the body within the nightdress rather than the body and clothing sliding together across the carpet. He pointed out that the photographs demonstrated this effect at the back of the nightdress with the nightdress staying rucked up in its original position. However the front of the nightdress had not demonstrated this effect. Accordingly Mr Ismail concluded that the nightdress had been pulled down after Sheila Caffell slid into her final position. Since on the evidence, she was dead by this stage, Mr Ismail concluded that some one else had arranged her nightdress.

[Holly Goodhead]

But that isn't true Holly, he said that had he seen the body in situ, he would have had concerns.

He did not make any such comments pre trial or during trial.  Post trial he stated the following:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=744

It's called hedging your bets!  And with regard to b and c he's right they were moved as a result of officers at soc moving SC as post above.

[Holly Goodhead]

The "boozy Dr. Craig" story came from Gladys Beltdown, who used to pretend to be a SAS soldier called Gav, so, you know...….

 

Some get a buzz out of booze, others religion.  I know which I prefer  . hic, hic

On a serious note there's no evidence whatsoever Dr Craig had a drink problem.

[Holly Goodhead]

Who cares.

Have you been invited onto Desert Island discs?

[Holly Goodhead]

More than likely the blood on the bible would come from three/ four adults,I don't think it would be wrong to surmise it would not have belonged to JB,the prosecution would possibly have used this.So that leaves three.Correct me if I'm wrong but it was found in the bedroom where Sheila and Junes bodies were found,so possibly narrows it even more.Not sure of the significance you're trying to put on it,but it won't absolve Bamber from being a child killer.

We shouldn't have to surmise since the blood stains should have been tested and the results made known to the defence.  According to JM's testimony MM told SC to lie down and put the bible on her chest.  So it was an important exhibit found at the heart of the soc and blood stained and should have been treated as such and not non-disclised to the defence.

But you're right it's not grounds for a referral to Coa just an additional point that can be added.

[barrier]

In 2002 Dr Ismail provided a report on the position of the bible and the prosecution tried to introduce this issue to the court.


https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/sheila-s-body


So do I read that right,the prosecution wanted it introduced?

[barrier]

Have you been invited onto Desert Island discs?

Your're point being? the class system is alive and well in the good old diverse uk? desert island is for the great and good? did DS Stan Jones get invited for solving the Bamber case?

[Holly Goodhead]

In 2002 Dr Ismail provided a report on the position of the bible and the prosecution tried to introduce this issue to the court.


https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/sheila-s-body


So do I read that right,the prosecution wanted it introduced?

Yes but what all concerned seem oblivious to is that the most senior first respondent, A/PS Woodcock, noted in his wit stat that SC's head was raised against the bedside cabinet whereas in soc images it is flat to the floor meaning SC was moved at soc post first respondents entering and pre soc images taken.  Officers moved SC at soc and did not disclose this fact letting JB take the rap 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=251

[Holly Goodhead]

Your're point being? the class system is alive and well in the good old diverse uk? desert island is for the great and good? did DS Stan Jones get invited for solving the Bamber case?

Interestingly I'm just rereading CC's book and note he was not enamoured with DS Jones.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p009491v

 

[APRIL]

Interestingly I'm just rereading CC's book and note he was not enamoured with DS Jones.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p009491v

 

Independent claims by two people -and their wives- who worked alongside, and on occasions, as etiquette required, socialized with 'Little' Jones, describe him as being nearly as thoroughly obnoxious as he was portrayed as being. He met his end when he fell off a ladder. Perhaps the poor man had an undetected brain tumour, OR was simply suffering LMS (little man syndrome)?

[Caroline]

And if in your opinion there's no reason a medi doc is able to distinguish between 'real grief' and 'play acting' then what makes you and others so sure the likes of PS Bews and DS Jones were able to?

A. They were police officers - used to people lying.
B. They spent longer time with him, so more chance to observe him behaviour.

[Caroline]

Yes officers admitted to lifting SC's arm at soc to photograph some bloodstaining from her wrist area.  But what they didn't admit to doing at soc, and prior to photographs being taken, is pulling at her feet as per expert testimony from Dr Martyn Ismail a forensic scientist:

518. To decide whether we considered that the interests of justice required that we heard Mr Ismail's evidence, we first had regard to the evidence that it was said that he could give. From the blood staining he concluded that following the second and fatal shot Sheila Caffell was lying almost flat on her back with her head propped against a bedside cabinet. For her then to slide to be found in the position depicted in the photographs would have required the downward force to be greater than the friction of her body against the floor. In his opinion this simply was not possible as there would only be the weight of the head providing the downward force. Therefore he concluded that an additional force would have been necessary. It could not have come from Sheila Caffell since the second shot would have been instantly fatal and thus she must have been moved by someone else, for example with her legs being pulled. He also considered that the weight and the friction between her skin and her nightdress was likely to have been less than the weight and friction between the nightdress and the carpet. Therefore, he would expect movement of the body within the nightdress rather than the body and clothing sliding together across the carpet. He pointed out that the photographs demonstrated this effect at the back of the nightdress with the nightdress staying rucked up in its original position. However the front of the nightdress had not demonstrated this effect. Accordingly Mr Ismail concluded that the nightdress had been pulled down after Sheila Caffell slid into her final position. Since on the evidence, she was dead by this stage, Mr Ismail concluded that some one else had arranged her nightdress.

Holly, we have been through this - the blood on Sheila Caffell's face is proof that her head was flat to the floor. Blood has ran from the sides of her mouth, not down her chin and blood from her nose, has trailed to her eye. You theory is against the laws of gravity. Her head may (or may not) have been propped ups when shot, but if someone pulled her legs down, then the blood trails on her face show it was Bamber.

[Caroline]

He did not make any such comments pre trial or during trial.  Post trial he stated the following:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=744

It's called hedging your bets!  And with regard to b and c he's right they were moved as a result of officers at soc moving SC as post above.

How could he make that statement previous to the trial? He hadn't seen the crime scene!. The above statement doesn't indicate that officers moved anything but the blood on SC face prove her head was flat to the floor. You seem to ignore evidence when it doesn't suit.

[Caroline]

We shouldn't have to surmise since the blood stains should have been tested and the results made known to the defence.  According to JM's testimony MM told SC to lie down and put the bible on her chest.  So it was an important exhibit found at the heart of the soc and blood stained and should have been treated as such and not non-disclised to the defence.

But you're right it's not grounds for a referral to Coa just an additional point that can be added.

The bible was an exhibit at trail - an exhibit the defence chose not to use.

[Caroline]

Yes but what all concerned seem oblivious to is that the most senior first respondent, A/PS Woodcock, noted in his wit stat that SC's head was raised against the bedside cabinet whereas in soc images it is flat to the floor meaning SC was moved at soc post first respondents entering and pre soc images taken.  Officers moved SC at soc and did not disclose this fact letting JB take the rap 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=251

What you seem to be ignoring (although you say it the be all and end all in this case) is the EVIDENCE. Look at the CS picture of ASC and please explain HOW blood would trial in that manner if her head was propped up? This doesn't sit well with your theory so you're just ignoring it and repeating the same error.