The phone call

[Caroline]

If that's what he did then only he knows why. According to others there seemed to be something going on that evening. Barbara Wilson rang the house at 9:30 pm, spoke to Nevill and got the impression that she'd interupted an argument. Pamela Boutflower rang at 10:00 pm and thought June and Sheila didn't seem like themselves. Nevill was seen in the field collecting the rape harvest at 10:15 pm. What happened between then and approx. 03:30 am isn't known.

Pamela didn't say that June didn't seem like herself, in fact she stated that June 'acted quite normally', she said June was worried about Sheila as she didn't seem to have an interest in anything. This is consistent with the side effects of her medication. She made no mention of an argument. Nevill seemed annoyed probably because Jeremy left him to bring the last trailer of rape seed in. Jeremy could just as easily have been the brunt of an argument with Nevill.

[Caroline]

I remember reading (and apologies, I can't recall where) that Nevill used to shower  downstairs every evening , and then sit down with a drink before bed. So, he would have been downstairs at some time in the evening. Why couldn't he have phoned Jeremy then, had Sheila begun to have a psychotic episode and had picked up a gun?

At 3am?

[G-Unit]

I remember reading (and apologies, I can't recall where) that Nevill used to shower  downstairs every evening , and then sit down with a drink before bed. So, he would have been downstairs at some time in the evening. Why couldn't he have phoned Jeremy then, had Sheila begun to have a psychotic episode and had picked up a gun?

Page 6893 Carol Ann Lee's book.

I have read also that Sheila had been known to ring her father from London and speak with him into the night. It's not beyond the realms of possibility therefore that she and her father stayed up late talking.

[G-Unit]

A possibilities are there of just about anything you care to name. What carries weight is the balance of probabilities.

Beyond reasonable doubt is the standard of proof needed in a criminal trial. The lesser standard of the balance of probabilities is reserved for civil cases.

[G-Unit]

Pamela didn't say that June didn't seem like herself, in fact she stated that June 'acted quite normally', she said June was worried about Sheila as she didn't seem to have an interest in anything. This is consistent with the side effects of her medication. She made no mention of an argument. Nevill seemed annoyed probably because Jeremy left him to bring the last trailer of rape seed in. Jeremy could just as easily have been the brunt of an argument with Nevill.

June told Pamela that she was worried about Sheila and had been trying to persuade her to take a holiday at a home in Bournemouth. Pamela added to this, telling Robert it was a nursing home, and telling Colin it was a Christian community.

CAL's book page 158

[ISpyWithMyEye]

All he proved was that Nevill was shot four times upstairs and then finished off downstairs following a struggle. He had nothing to say about where Nevill was before the shooting started.

It wasn’t Vanezis’ job to determine where Nevill was moments prior to the shootings; his job was to prove how Nevill died

What you’re trying to infer is that Nevill phoned Jeremy to come and rescue them all from Sheila — and that is a ludicrous suggestion

Had Sheila suddenly gone berserk and was waving the gun around upstairs that would have been a dire emergency.  Nevill wouldn’t have had time, nor even would have thought to leave his family in grave danger by going downstairs to phone Jeremy. That would be akin to watching your family drowning and instead of jumping in to rescue them, trotting off to a telephone and calling someone who lived three miles away to come and save them...and then for good measure, calling the police 20 miles away (after looking their number up in a directory) and telling them too that his wife and grandchildren were currently drowning

TIME would have been of the essence, and in such an emergency your natural reaction would be to save your family

Nevill would have — and could have — disarmed Sheila quickly by simply throwing himself on top of her. According to Jeremy when he himself phoned the police, Sheila was just “going berserk” with a gun — he never said that Nevill told him she’d shot anyone — so that would mean Nevill left Sheila alone up stairs “going crazy”. He wouldn’t have left her free to kill his family!

You’re also forgetting that had that been true, and no shots had been fired, Nevill possibly wouldn’t have even known if the gun was loaded — so all the more reason he’d have swiftly disarmed her. But whether it was loaded or not he’d have still taken swift immediate action.

And after disarming her if he was going to phone anyone it would have been the local doctor to come out and sedate her...

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I remember reading (and apologies, I can't recall where) that Nevill used to shower  downstairs every evening , and then sit down with a drink before bed. So, he would have been downstairs at some time in the evening. Why couldn't he have phoned Jeremy then, had Sheila begun to have a psychotic episode and had picked up a gun?

According to Jeremy Nevill phoned him at around 03:25

But that’s been disproven — Jeremy lied

[ISpyWithMyEye]

If that's what he did then only he knows why. According to others there seemed to be something going on that evening. Barbara Wilson rang the house at 9:30 pm, spoke to Nevill and got the impression that she'd interupted an argument. Pamela Boutflower rang at 10:00 pm and thought June and Sheila didn't seem like themselves. Nevill was seen in the field collecting the rape harvest at 10:15 pm. What happened between then and approx. 03:30 am isn't known.

Look, all families have quarrels sometimes

They could have been quarrelling about absolutely anything — something as minor as June’s cooking that night and cross words were said.  You’re attaching too much importance to that.  But whatever it was, it didn’t stop Nevill doing his usual routine of collecting the rape harvest of the day at 10:15pm — so it obviously wasn’t a major argument

The person who could tell you what happened later is Jeremy...he knows

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Page 6893 Carol Ann Lee's book.

I have read also that Sheila had been known to ring her father from London and speak with him into the night. It's not beyond the realms of possibility therefore that she and her father stayed up late talking.

And what if they did?

All that would suggest is that Sheila was functioning well enough to have a long conversation, and obviously wasn’t having a psychotic episode

But going by the aftermath Sheila had definitely slept in her bed that night and she was in her nightdress when found shot dead on the floor

You’re forgetting that Sheila was extremely tired and weak from the effects of her medication and her menstrual period had recently started too — which often makes women feel more tired than normal.

Nevill had also been to bed too and was also in his pyjamas.

He usually went to bed quite early anyway, as he always had to be up early in the morning for the farm, so your suggestion he and Sheila were both up into the early hours doesn’t add up

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Beyond reasonable doubt is the standard of proof needed in a criminal trial. The lesser standard of the balance of probabilities is reserved for civil cases.

Why are you being pedantic?

Jeremy was convicted of the murders after being found guilty, and has lost all appeals since then, which means there is no doubt whatsoever that he’s guilty

[Caroline]

Page 6893 Carol Ann Lee's book.

I have read also that Sheila had been known to ring her father from London and speak with him into the night. It's not beyond the realms of possibility therefore that she and her father stayed up late talking.

That happened once.

[Caroline]

June told Pamela that she was worried about Sheila and had been trying to persuade her to take a holiday at a home in Bournemouth. Pamela added to this, telling Robert it was a nursing home, and telling Colin it was a Christian community.

CAL's book page 158

So, where in that does Pam state that June wasn't herself? She actually said that June seemed normal.

[Caroline]

According to Jeremy Nevill phoned him at around 03:25

But that’s been disproven — Jeremy lied

Jeremy said that Nevill called around 03:10, the 03:25 call is supposed to be when Nevill called the police. This is a recent claim, prior to the notion of Nevill calling the police 03:25 was when Jeremy argued that he himself called the police. Now he's claiming he called them at 03:36.

[adam]

Beyond reasonable doubt is the standard of proof needed in a criminal trial. The lesser standard of the balance of probabilities is reserved for civil cases.

People have different thresholds for voting guilty.

A poster on the Blue forum recently said there is no smoking gun, so could not have voted guilty. But surely if there was CCTV of Jeremy entering WHF on the night, he would have pleaded guilty.

[adam]

It wasn’t Vanezis’ job to determine where Nevill was moments prior to the shootings; his job was to prove how Nevill died

What you’re trying to infer is that Nevill phoned Jeremy to come and rescue them all from Sheila — and that is a ludicrous suggestion

Had Sheila suddenly gone berserk and was waving the gun around upstairs that would have been a dire emergency.  Nevill wouldn’t have had time, nor even would have thought to leave his family in grave danger by going downstairs to phone Jeremy. That would be akin to watching your family drowning and instead of jumping in to rescue them, trotting off to a telephone and calling someone who lived three miles away to come and save them...and then for good measure, calling the police 20 miles away (after looking their number up in a directory) and telling them too that his wife and grandchildren were currently drowning

TIME would have been of the essence, and in such an emergency your natural reaction would be to save your family

Nevill would have — and could have — disarmed Sheila quickly by simply throwing himself on top of her. According to Jeremy when he himself phoned the police, Sheila was just “going berserk” with a gun — he never said that Nevill told him she’d shot anyone — so that would mean Nevill left Sheila alone up stairs “going crazy”. He wouldn’t have left her free to kill his family!

You’re also forgetting that had that been true, and no shots had been fired, Nevill possibly wouldn’t have even known if the gun was loaded — so all the more reason he’d have swiftly disarmed her. But whether it was loaded or not he’d have still taken swift immediate action.

And after disarming her if he was going to phone anyone it would have been the local doctor to come out and sedate her...

Yes Nevill's huge height and weight advantage would have seen him take Sheila to ground.

The smashed ceiling light, aga scratches & general disruption in the kitchen shows Nevill wrestled for the rifle & was not able to take his attacker to ground.