The phone call

[Holly Goodhead]

Where has April mentioned psychopathy waxes and wanes? She never said that, Holly

And why are you posting links that’s been written by Jeremy Bamber himself?!

That’s like asking someone to write themselves a reference...

JB MANIPULATES the facts. Cherrypicks. Exaggerates and hushes up in equal measure. Distorts.

I’m surprised you take that rubbish seriously!

I never said APRIL mentioned psychopathy waxing and waning.

The article has relevant input from Prof Vincent Egan.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I know what psychopathy is thank you.

Prof Vincent Egan is qualified  to determine whether or not JB suffers psychopathy.  He has determined he doesn't suffer such and since it doesn't wax and wane we know he never has been and never will be.

If you have come across reports claiming otherwise then please post up otherwise its your opinion not a fact.

According to this report the condition can improve with age
https://www.healthline.com/health/psychopath#vs-sociopath

[Vertigo Swirl]

Interesting...

“Although no psychiatric or psychological organization has sanctioned a diagnosis titled "psychopathy", assessments of psychopathic characteristics are widely used in criminal justice settings in some nations and may have important consequences for individuals”.

[Holly Goodhead]

According to this report the condition can improve with age
https://www.healthline.com/health/psychopath#vs-sociopath

No need to rely on random articles and posters' interpretations when we have official word from Prof Vincent Egan.

[Vertigo Swirl]

No need to rely on random articles and posters' interpretations when we have official word from Prof Vincent Egan.

Is he the last word on the disorder then?  It seems to be quite a subjective area of mental health study.  When did he come to his conclusion and how was the test carried out?  Even the NHS page on the subject says it is a condition which can improve with age.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

He wasn't classified as a psychopath before trial.  According to Wilkes book the defence spoke with a psychologist? pshysiatrist? in chambers before trial who said something like psychopaths are able to deny and push things to the back of their minds.  How does this equate to JB being formally diagnosed as a psychopath?  How can an appropriately qualified person diagnose an individual with psychopathy he/she hasn't even spoken with let alone met face to face?

Prof Vincent Egan has confirmed JB is not a psychopath which means he never has been and never will be since psychopathy doesn't wax and wane.

What don’t you understand about the fact Jeremy was diagnosed when on remand?

The prison psychiatrist had several meeting with Jeremy and reported that Jeremy was a pathological liar, a psychopath, and he believed Jeremy was as guilty as sin.

I’ll find it for you, as you refuse to believe anything unless you see it in black and white. You seem to think everyone’s a liar, like Jeremy Bamber

[Vertigo Swirl]

Holly, if evidence came to light that satisifed you Jeremy murdered his family (unlikely I know, you have managed to bat away some pretty conclusive evidence quite easily already!) would you still believe Jeremy was not a psychopath cos Vince Egan said so?

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly, if evidence came to light that satisifed you Jeremy murdered his family (unlikely I know, you have managed to bat away some pretty conclusive evidence quite easily already!) would you still believe Jeremy was not a psychopath cos Vince Egan said so?

What conclusive evidence have I batted away?

The defence and prosecution agreed at trial there were only two possibilities: SC committed the murders and committed suicide in some altered state of mind or JB committed the murders with the probable motives of greed and hatred for his family.  Only one of the possible perps was tested for psychopathy.

Why would I not rely on Prof Vincent Egan? 

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/medicine/people/vincent.egan

[ISpyWithMyEye]

He wasn't classified as a psychopath before trial.  According to Wilkes book the defence spoke with a psychologist? pshysiatrist? in chambers before trial who said something like psychopaths are able to deny and push things to the back of their minds.  How does this equate to JB being formally diagnosed as a psychopath?  How can an appropriately qualified person diagnose an individual with psychopathy he/she hasn't even spoken with let alone met face to face?

Prof Vincent Egan has confirmed JB is not a psychopath which means he never has been and never will be since psychopathy doesn't wax and wane.

There you are, Holly

You said: “Psychopathy doesn’t wax and wane”

You’re actually correct: it doesn’t   

[ISpyWithMyEye]

According to this report the condition can improve with age
https://www.healthline.com/health/psychopath#vs-sociopath

I’m not a psychiatrist, but have studied psychology and also have two relatives who are psychiatrists, so psychiatry is of interest to me, though I’m no expert at all

However, my understanding is that psychopathy doesn’t improve as its due to how the brain is wired up.  Having said that, with age comes maturity, and with old age comes both physical and mental decline too. So older psychopaths most probably do lose their determination, strength, yearning for control etc...but they’ll always be a psychopath

[Holly Goodhead]

What don’t you understand about the fact Jeremy was diagnosed when on remand?

The prison psychiatrist had several meeting with Jeremy and reported that Jeremy was a pathological liar, a psychopath, and he believed Jeremy was as guilty as sin.

I’ll find it for you, as you refuse to believe anything unless you see it in black and white. You seem to think everyone’s a liar, like Jeremy Bamber

The above is your opinion unless you can find some evidence to support it.

[Vertigo Swirl]

What conclusive evidence have I batted away?

The defence and prosecution agreed at trial there were only two possibilities: SC committed the murders and committed suicide in some altered state of mind or JB committed the murders with the probable motives of greed and hatred for his family.  Only one of the possible perps was tested for psychopathy.

Why would I not rely on Prof Vincent Egan? 

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/medicine/people/vincent.egan

Are you serious?  You have batted away ALL the evidence that the jury considered when coming to the majority verdict that he was guilty, the same evidence heard by two appeal courts who also concurred with the original verdict.  Now answer my question please. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Are you serious?  You have batted away ALL the evidence that the jury considered when coming to the majority verdict that he was guilty, the same evidence heard by two appeal courts who also concurred with the original verdict.  Now answer my question please.

What evidence have I batted away?

Which expert at trial said in his/her opinion JB was likely to be guilty or even alluded to such?

The most damning evidence came from Malcolm Fletcher.  When asked to introduce himself to the court, unlike other experts, he did not refer to high level qualifications or membership of professional bodies but referred to working in the firearms Sept for 13 years and "a small amount of experience with an air rifle as a small boy".

[Holly Goodhead]

Are you serious?  You have batted away ALL the evidence that the jury considered when coming to the majority verdict that he was guilty, the same evidence heard by two appeal courts who also concurred with the original verdict.  Now answer my question please.

You don't know what weight jurors attributed to the various aspects of the prosecution case.  It seems from the judges summing up and questions put to judge by jurors that they placed a lot of reliance on the blood/silencer.

[Caroline]

You don't know what weight jurors attributed to the various aspects of the prosecution case.  It seems from the judges summing up and questions put to judge by jurors that they placed a lot of reliance on the blood/silencer.

That was just the part they weren't sure about because of the technical criteria.