Shooting Reconstruction

[Holly Goodhead]

From Inspector Gadget

There are multiple options to the shooting reconstruction though, therefore surely you can’t accurately reconstruct? No surviving witnesses either to verify. The court widely accepted that you will never be able to know what order people were killed and exact order of shots. For example you don’t know if the boys were shot first or last, of if Bamber pumped  one in their head then come back to empty more later after they were already dead. Only he knows how he murdered the children.

[Holly Goodhead]

From Inspector Gadget

There are multiple options to the shooting reconstruction though, therefore surely you can’t accurately reconstruct? No surviving witnesses either to verify. The court widely accepted that you will never be able to know what order people were killed and exact order of shots. For example you don’t know if the boys were shot first or last, of if Bamber pumped  one in their head then come back to empty more later after they were already dead. Only he knows how he murdered the children.

It is possible to reconstruct a lot conclusively and draw inferences from that.  Eg if expert evidence shows NB sustained his facial shots whilst stood on the landing stairs with the perp stood just inside the main bedroom shooting out onto the landing this supports NB downstairs in the kitchen on the phone to JB and upon hearing shots he dropped the phone and run upstairs towards the sound of gunshot and possibly noise from June.  The inference here being the twins were shot after NB and June.

The most important aspect of the reconstruction will be to establish where NB and perp were located when NB sustained his upstairs gunshot wounds.

[Holly Goodhead]

http://www.crimescene-forensics.com/Shooting_Recon.html

[Holly Goodhead]

http://www.crimescene-forensics.com/Shooting_Recon.html

it is possible to determine bullet paths, location of shooters, location of injured parties, and muzzle to target distances. Once the shooting event has been reconstructed, our illustrator can represent the scene with great accuracy.

[Inspector Gadget]

it is possible to determine bullet paths, location of shooters, location of injured parties, and muzzle to target distances. Once the shooting event has been reconstructed, our illustrator can represent the scene with great accuracy.

But crucially there remains many different options of order of shots and victims so how can you reconstruct? Also assuming JB done it and staged the suicide scene, he would have been able to move things to wherever he wanted so that the scene the police found was not actually the true scene.

[barrier]

But crucially there remains many different options of order of shots and victims so how can you reconstruct? Also assuming JB done it and staged the suicide scene, he would have been able to move things to wherever he wanted so that the scene the police found was not actually the true scene.

Wrong way around inspector,JB done it its up to his apologist's to show how Sheila did it,is it possible from what is known?

[Holly Goodhead]

But crucially there remains many different options of order of shots and victims so how can you reconstruct? Also assuming JB done it and staged the suicide scene, he would have been able to move things to wherever he wanted so that the scene the police found was not actually the true scene.

He could move casings but he obviously didn't remove blood stains that were visible and he couldn't alter the distance of shots, trajectories and victims' wound tracks.  There's literally a mountain of untapped physical data.

[Holly Goodhead]

Wrong way around inspector,JB done it its up to his apologist's to show how Sheila did it,is it possible from what is known?

I would hardly call a team of experts tasked with reconstructing a shooting apologists. 

WHF is the only unwitnessed mass shooting in British criminal history.  The fact a reconstruction hasn't been undertaken is a farce.

[Inspector Gadget]

Wrong way around inspector,JB done it its up to his apologist's to show how Sheila did it,is it possible from what is known?

Oh I agree he done it for sure. I’m just trying to understand Holly’s logic. I am assuming JB done it because he had been inside for 30+ years and was found guilty in a court of law. So by that assumption he could have done whatever he wanted to the scene to make it look like a suicide. What we do know is that forensically there is nothing on Sheila that suggests she fired and reloaded 25 bullets, there is nothing on her hands or immaculate nails that suggests a struggle, nothing on her feet that suggests being anywhere other than upstairs plus her distinct lack of experience in handling a rifle of this complexity in her life. She simply didn’t do it, and the jury agreed. 

[Inspector Gadget]

I would hardly call a team of experts tasked with reconstructing a shooting apologists. 

WHF is the only unwitnessed mass shooting in British criminal history.  The fact a reconstruction hasn't been undertaken is a farce.

It’s only a farce to the pro JB team as they want to go and reconstruct how they want to. But as I’ve said it would have zero credibility as he could and probably would have staged the scene how he wanted to and you will never know the order they were shot. You can’t pick and choose what you want to reconstruct. There were no surviving witnesses that could verify the exact reconstruction therefore you have to possibly reconstruct 7 or 8 different scenes looking at evidence available which would render a reconstruction pointless.

[barrier]

I would hardly call a team of experts tasked with reconstructing a shooting apologists. 

WHF is the only unwitnessed mass shooting in British criminal history.  The fact a reconstruction hasn't been undertaken is a farce.

The only way to reconstruct is for Bamber to fess up,there'll be no need then.

[Caroline]

I would hardly call a team of experts tasked with reconstructing a shooting apologists. 

WHF is the only unwitnessed mass shooting in British criminal history.  The fact a reconstruction hasn't been undertaken is a farce.

The reason that a reconstruction hasn't taken place is because it was unwitnessed.

[steve_trousers]

It is possible to reconstruct a lot conclusively and draw inferences from that.  Eg if expert evidence shows NB sustained his facial shots whilst stood on the landing stairs with the perp stood just inside the main bedroom shooting out onto the landing this supports NB downstairs in the kitchen on the phone to JB and upon hearing shots he dropped the phone and run upstairs towards the sound of gunshot and possibly noise from June.  The inference here being the twins were shot after NB and June.

The most important aspect of the reconstruction will be to establish where NB and perp were located when NB sustained his upstairs gunshot wounds.

Poppycock. It is old ground and cannot be demonstrated with any degree of certainty that NB sustained his facial wounds on the stairs.
There are sound reasons why Rivlin and co may not have wanted a soc reconstruction, as discussed yesterday it would likely only have served to eliminate any doubt in the more simple minded members of the jury.

Again, I urge you to change tack. Your best hope is to write to Ms Mugford and implore her to recant her testimony.

[Caroline]

Poppycock. It is old ground and cannot be demonstrated with any degree of certainty that NB sustained his facial wounds on the stairs.
There are sound reasons why Rivlin and co may not have wanted a soc reconstruction, as discussed yesterday it would likely only have served to eliminate any doubt in the more simple minded members of the jury.

Again, I urge you to change tack. Your best hope is to write to Ms Mugford and implore her to recant her testimony.

Given that Julie has recently stated that she stands by what she said 34 years ago, there's little chance of that.

[adam]

Julie said Bamber told her the twins were shot first and Sheila last.

Common sense would stop Bamber shooting the twins 8 times, then going down to reload. So they would have been shot once each.

June was shot next. As he would not continue shooting her if Nevill was now a threat. The final 4 bullets from the first load were at Nevill in the bedroom. 

The next round of bullets into June, Nevill & the twins could have been in any order. They were all dead or immobilised.

Sheila being shot last could mean after all 20+ shots had been fired,  meaning she did not wake.  Or it could mean she was the first to be shot after the kitchen fight.