Shooting Reconstruction

[Caroline]

I can't see it myself, there's lots of damning evidence against Bamber and not an iota which could support him.  IMO you have created an Everest to climb Holly and are doing it while naked and blindfold.  IMO Bamber will never be given any further referrals to the COA, he is in the right place and will stay there indefinitely.

And wearing mitts.

[Holly Goodhead]

In terms of shooting reconstruction the most important aspect is to determine where NB was situated when he sustained his upstairs gunshot wounds specifically the facial wounds: lip and jaw. 

At trial jurors were told NB sustained all his upstairs gsw's in the bedroom and afaik the defence did not contest this.  No reconstruction has ever taken place but thankfully it is never too late.  If the prosecution are right then it stands to reason NB could not have made the call to JB as the pathologist made clear that having sustained the facial wounds he was incapable of purposeful speech thereafter.  Also these wounds caused heavy blood loss internally and externally and the phone showed no visible signs of blood staining. 

Myself and others, some of whom are experienced with firearms, believe the totality of the physical evidence shows NB did not sustain any gunshot wounds in the bedroom; the facial wounds were sustained when NB was stood on the landing stairs facing into the bedroom with the perp already in the bedroom shooting out onto the landing.  NB then turned to retreat downstairs and when he did so the perp followed firing two further shots which entered NB's shoulder and caused a graze only wound to his elbow/chest.

The following physical evidence needs to fit:

Trajectories
Wound tracks
Casing location
Distance from end of barrel to site of GSW
Blood staining

Pathology reports pertaining to wounds 5 and 6 - lip and jaw

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... attach=676

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... attach=724

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... attach=726

Casings

Casing layout diagram attached

Layout of WHF:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... 5#msg25945

Video showing casings eject forward, up and to the right with said rifle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgz0lqGVouo

Distance of shots

64. In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/jud ... index.html

Blood staining

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... attach=221 = Exhibits DRH/47 and DRH/49 blood staining from landing - DC Hammersley

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... ttach=3100 = WS of AE confirming police removed blood on stairs carpet

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... attach=215 = DC Hammersely conirming light distribution of blood on kitchen floor

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... attach=217 = above cont

57. Five carpet samples taken from the main bedroom were examined and found to bear numerous spots of dripped blood. These were tested and found to match the blood groupings of June Bamber. Wallpaper from the hallway to the left-hand side of the kitchen door was found, on examination, to be stained with human blood consistent with the blood grouping shared by Nevill Bamber and the twin boys. Since the boys seem to have been shot in their beds, it is a clear inference that this was Mr. Bamber's blood.

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/jud ... index.html

[Caroline]

In terms of shooting reconstruction the most important aspect is to determine where NB was situated when he sustained his upstairs gunshot wounds specifically the facial wounds: lip and jaw. 

At trial jurors were told NB sustained all his upstairs gsw's in the bedroom and afaik the defence did not contest this.  No reconstruction has ever taken place but thankfully it is never too late.  If the prosecution are right then it stands to reason NB could not have made the call to JB as the pathologist made clear that having sustained the facial wounds he was incapable of purposeful speech thereafter.  Also these wounds caused heavy blood loss internally and externally and the phone showed no visible signs of blood staining. 

Myself and others, some of whom are experienced with firearms, believe the totality of the physical evidence shows NB did not sustain any gunshot wounds in the bedroom; the facial wounds were sustained when NB was stood on the landing stairs facing into the bedroom with the perp already in the bedroom shooting out onto the landing.  NB then turned to retreat downstairs and when he did so the perp followed firing two further shots which entered NB's shoulder and caused a graze only wound to his elbow/chest. 

Trajectories
Wound tracks
Casing location
Distance from end of barrel to site of GSW
Blood staining

Pathology reports pertaining to wounds 5 and 6 - lip and jaw

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... attach=676

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... attach=724

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... attach=726

Image of cervical vertebra attached

Casings

Casing layout diagram attached

Photo of area where NB sustained wounds 5 and 6 attached

Layout of WHF:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... 5#msg25945

Video showing casings eject forward, up and to the right with said rifle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgz0lqGVouo

Distance of shots

64. In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/jud ... index.html

Blood staining

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... attach=221 = Exhibits DRH/47 and DRH/49 blood staining from landing - DC Hammersley

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... ttach=3100 = WS of AE confirming police removed blood on stairs carpet

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... attach=215 = DC Hammersely conirming light distribution of blood on kitchen floor

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.ph ... attach=217 = above cont

57. Five carpet samples taken from the main bedroom were examined and found to bear numerous spots of dripped blood. These were tested and found to match the blood groupings of June Bamber. Wallpaper from the hallway to the left-hand side of the kitchen door was found, on examination, to be stained with human blood consistent with the blood grouping shared by Nevill Bamber and the twin boys. Since the boys seem to have been shot in their beds, it is a clear inference that this was Mr. Bamber's blood.

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/jud ... index.html

And after all that - where Nevill was does not put the rifle in Sheila's hands or a phone handset in Nevill's

[Holly Goodhead]

And after all that - where Nevill was does not put the rifle in Sheila's hands or a phone handset in Nevill's

I've never said it does.  What it does show is that the tel call was a realistic possibility if a shooting reconstruction places NB on the landing stairs with perp firing out of bedroom onto landing. 

The above would make a formidable appeal point (not a reason for referral) as the jury (and judge) were led to believe something quite different.

[Holly Goodhead]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_reconstruction

http://forensictrainingsource.com/shooting-incident-reconstruction/

http://forensicpieces.com/lists/5-csi-and-recon-courses/items/451-shooting-reconstruction

https://www.tritechtraining.com/shooting-incident-reconstruction.html

Shooting reconstruction brings up 4,790,000 hits but the above gives a taste of things to come.

[Holly Goodhead]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwJamJLH_TY

[steve_trousers]

I've never said it does.  What it does show is that the tel call was a realistic possibility if a shooting reconstruction places NB on the landing stairs with perp firing out of bedroom onto landing. 

The above would make a formidable appeal point (not a reason for referral) as the jury (and judge) were led to believe something quite different.

I'm afraid this is a non starter. It would not make a formidable appeal point at all as it does not prove anything. 

I don't see how you can expect to free Bamber using something which is merely a matter of interpretation and opinion. have you considered the other scenario's other than the ones which you think prove your point? As it stands, this will be batted out of court in short shrift. Please take heed.


 

[Caroline]

I've never said it does.  What it does show is that the tel call was a realistic possibility if a shooting reconstruction places NB on the landing stairs with perp firing out of bedroom onto landing. 

The above would make a formidable appeal point (not a reason for referral) as the jury (and judge) were led to believe something quite different.

I don't agree because Nevill could have just pushed passed the perp ending up on the landing and stairs when shot.

[Holly Goodhead]

I'm afraid this is a non starter. It would not make a formidable appeal point at all as it does not prove anything. 

I don't see how you can expect to free Bamber using something which is merely a matter of interpretation and opinion. have you considered the other scenario's other than the ones which you think prove your point? As it stands, this will be batted out of court in short shrift. Please take heed.

It isn't a matter of interpretation at all it's what the physical evidence from soc depicts. 

[Holly Goodhead]

I don't agree because Nevill could have just pushed passed the perp ending up on the landing and stairs when shot.

But that's not what jurors were told at trial.  They were told NB sustained his upstairs gunshot wounds in the bedroom and therefore could not have made the phone call. 

[Caroline]

But that's not what jurors were told at trial.  They were told NB sustained his upstairs gunshot wounds in the bedroom and therefore could not have made the phone call.

He sustaining them on the landing doesn't prove he could.

[Myster]

Where did the two casings from the bullets fired into June's head finish up, Holly?

The red dots are either blood spots or carpet samples with blood spots.  The casings are black dots.

[Caroline]

Where did the two casings from the bullets fired into June's head finish up, Holly?

The red dots are either blood spots or carpet samples with blood spots.  The casings are black dots.

You can't tell anything from the shell casings - for instance the shots fired at Sheila are on both sides of her body and the argument used is one of them must have bounced. Also, there was a bed cover on the floor next to June's side of the bed - did the casings fall on the cover or were they underneath - were they disturbed by the cover?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

It is possible to reconstruct a lot conclusively and draw inferences from that.  Eg if expert evidence shows NB sustained his facial shots whilst stood on the landing stairs with the perp stood just inside the main bedroom shooting out onto the landing this supports NB downstairs in the kitchen on the phone to JB and upon hearing shots he dropped the phone and run upstairs towards the sound of gunshot and possibly noise from June.  The inference here being the twins were shot after NB and June.

The most important aspect of the reconstruction will be to establish where NB and perp were located when NB sustained his upstairs gunshot wounds.

That couldn’t have happened, though

The phone would have been absolutely covered in blood & tissue

So that can be totally ruled out, which it was

[ISpyWithMyEye]

This is my view too. Twins first, one shot each, with a silencer. Then June, then NB then Sheila. Only thing I can’t really fathom is why Sheila was so submissive after so many shots. It’s as if she just lies there and let him shoot her neck (even know I know JB done it)...

Don’t forget Jeremy Bamber dragged Sheila along the carpet: that was proved by the fact her nightdress was bunched up behind her back and he’d obviously pulled the front down after repositioning her

There were also drag marks on the carpet

So no-one knows how she was sitting/standing when he shot her dead

My guess is she was cowering beside the bed trying to hide & then after shooting her he had to lay her flat and place the rifle on her lap to make it look like suicide