Is there any evidence which implicates Sheila?

[Vertigo Swirl]

NB's nose, along with the rest of his anatomy, was subjected to a thorough post-mortem so of course the pathologist was able to conclude whether or not his nose was broken.

If SC's nightdress and person contained small blood stains what tests existed in 1985/6 to enable forensic scientists and others to determine the origins of such stains?

Blood group?

[Brietta]

If by disarray in the kitchen you mean a few pieces of broken crockery, spilled sugar, broken lampshade and overturned chairs how does this support a violent struggle as opposed to NB stumbling into them either as a result of the injuries he sustained upstairs and/or attempting to flee from the perp?

There's no evidence NB sustained his upstairs gsw's in the bedroom.

It is my opinion that for some obscure reason best known to yourself you have chosen to reinterpret the evidence which resulted in a despicable mass murderer being removed from our streets for the rest of his life to a place where he can do no more physical harm.

In my opinion in doing so you have adopted his disproved and disgusting narrative of attempting to set up Sheila Caffell for his heinous crimes which for his purposes she was the most convenient scapegoat.

There is not one shred of evidence which supports Bamber's carefully crafted network of lies directed against his sister and that is patently obvious to a newbie such as myself and to date I have not seen anything posted by you or anyone else on the forum which goes even part of the way in convincing me otherwise.

In fact the harder you make the attempt to condone Bamber's actions by shifting the blame to another who along with her parents and her children also stood in the way of his nefarious ambition ... the harder I believe in his inexcusable guilt.

[APRIL]

It is my opinion that for some obscure reason best known to yourself you have chosen to reinterpret the evidence which resulted in a despicable mass murderer being removed from our streets for the rest of his life to a place where he can do no more physical harm.

In my opinion in doing so you have adopted his disproved and disgusting narrative of attempting to set up Sheila Caffell for his heinous crimes which for his purposes she was the most convenient scapegoat.

There is not one shred of evidence which supports Bamber's carefully crafted network of lies directed against his sister and that is patently obvious to a newbie such as myself and to date I have not seen anything posted by you or anyone else on the forum which goes even part of the way in convincing me otherwise.

In fact the harder you make the attempt to condone Bamber's actions by shifting the blame to another who along with her parents and her children also stood in the way of his nefarious ambition ... the harder I believe in his inexcusable guilt.

It does occur to me that every attempt is being made to underplay the devastation of the scene by seeking to suggest overplay by those who witnessed it. ie the mess in the kitchen really wasn't THAT bad. Nevill's wounds produced very little blood. His head wound, a laceration of no moment, adding up to a picture of him being more a little bit dead, than having been beaten to a pulp.

[mrswah]

The police and pathologist believed, at first anyway, that Sheila committed the murders and then took her own life.

In fact, this was the "official " conclusion for around a month. The police were so confident in their belief, that they allowed evidence to be burned and the funerals to take place.

So, why did they believe it was Sheila?  I cannot believe it was just because Taff Jones, a highly thought of DCI, was lazy, and more interested in his next game of golf, as has been suggested. He would not have become a DCI at  a relatively young age had he been lazy. This was a particularly horrific and unusual crime , and I would have expected the behaviour of the police to be anything but lazy!

So, my question is, what evidence did the police have that it was Sheila who carried out the killings? 

[APRIL]

The police and pathologist believed, at first anyway, that Sheila committed the murders and then took her own life.

In fact, this was the "official " conclusion for around a month. The police were so confident in their belief, that they allowed evidence to be burned and the funerals to take place.

So, why did they believe it was Sheila?  I cannot believe it was just because Taff Jones, a highly thought of DCI, was lazy, and more interested in his next game of golf, as has been suggested. He would not have become a DCI at  a relatively young age had he been lazy. This was a particularly horrific and unusual crime , and I would have expected the behaviour of the police to be anything but lazy!

So, my question is, what evidence did the police have that it was Sheila who carried out the killings?

Certainly they did. They reached that decision based on the information Jeremy had given them. It ave him long enough to get rid of any items which might have pointed a finger at him. You seem to forget that, from the moment he call the police, he was in total control of what information they were fed. Just ONE example. The alleged conversation about the boys being put into care, ie taken out of Sheila's care. We know now as a fact, that June had talked to Doris Brench of her fears regarding this. She would never have threatened such to Sheila.

[G-Unit]

Certainly they did. They reached that decision based on the information Jeremy had given them. It ave him long enough to get rid of any items which might have pointed a finger at him. You seem to forget that, from the moment he call the police, he was in total control of what information they were fed. Just ONE example. The alleged conversation about the boys being put into care, ie taken out of Sheila's care. We know now as a fact, that June had talked to Doris Brench of her fears regarding this. She would never have threatened such to Sheila.

June was not happy with the idea that the twins might be fostered in London. That doesn't mean that she would be against them being fostered in her local area.

[APRIL]

June was not happy with the idea that the twins might be fostered in London. That doesn't mean that she would be against them being fostered in her local area.

I believe her words to Doris ran along the lines of such being unnecessary because there were two good families who could provide care.

[G-Unit]

I believe her words to Doris ran along the lines of such being unnecessary because there were two good families who could provide care.

Doris replied to June's fears by saying "With a good family like ours I don't think the authorities would allow it" [w/s 23/09/85]

So the words were Doris's, not June's and in my opinion she was referring to her own family, not to both families.

[APRIL]

Doris replied to June's fears by saying "With a good family like ours I don't think the authorities would allow it" [w/s 23/09/85]

So the words were Doris's, not June's and in my opinion she was referring to her own family, not to both families.

As you say, in your opinion.

[mrswah]

Certainly they did. They reached that decision based on the information Jeremy had given them. It ave him long enough to get rid of any items which might have pointed a finger at him. You seem to forget that, from the moment he call the police, he was in total control of what information they were fed. Just ONE example. The alleged conversation about the boys being put into care, ie taken out of Sheila's care. We know now as a fact, that June had talked to Doris Brench of her fears regarding this. She would never have threatened such to Sheila.

I can't believe that a group of experienced police officers would  come to any conclusion based solely on the testimony of one 24 year old man.

What do you think he got rid of, that would have pointed a finger at him? The police did ask his permission to get rid of carpets, mattresses, etc.

I don't believe, for one moment, that June wanted the twins to go into care, and even if she had, Colin would never have gone along with it.  She might well have wanted Sheila and the boys to go and live at WHF, or she might have suggested some kind of foster/day care. I don't know what happened, as I wasn't there, but it doesn't seem inconceivable that the family might have had an argument over the care of the twins. We cannot assume that, just because Jeremy said it happened, that it didn't happen------IMO.

[APRIL]

I can't believe that a group of experienced police officers would  come to any conclusion based solely on the testimony of one 24 year old man.

What do you think he got rid of, that would have pointed a finger at him? The police did ask his permission to get rid of carpets, mattresses, etc.

I don't believe, for one moment, that June wanted the twins to go into care, and even if she had, Colin would never have gone along with it.  She might well have wanted Sheila and the boys to go and live at WHF, or she might have suggested some kind of foster/day care. I don't know what happened, as I wasn't there, but it doesn't seem inconceivable that the family might have had an argument over the care of the twins. We cannot assume that, just because Jeremy said it happened, that it didn't happen------IMO.

From this remove, I agree that it sounds incomprehensible, however, we must bear in mind that EP found themselves faced with an unprecedented situation and Jeremy's was the only information they received. I truly believe that, had it NOT been for his presence there, they may have gone in sooner than they did. I think it likely that it was he who was playing a stalling game. (If) Nevill hadn't made the call Jeremy claimed, he and the family were long dead, but Jeremy wanted them to believe he'd been alive to make the call. Perhaps he was hoping to blur tod?

Very convenient, that fire pit. Jeremy made excellent use of it to burn his parents' clothes. I doubt anyone checked to see if some of his own clothes -ie those he wore to commit the crime?- found their way in.

I entirely agree that, leaving aside the decision would have been Colin's not hers, June didn't want the boys to go into care so she wouldn't have suggested it to Sheila. The very most likely to have happened would have been moving her and the boys into Bourtree Cottage, leaving Jeremy to do what? We hear from Jeremy, that an argument had ensued, but he then says Sheila was saying nothing. How, then, could there have been an argument?

[Caroline]

If by disarray in the kitchen you mean a few pieces of broken crockery, spilled sugar, broken lampshade and overturned chairs how does this support a violent struggle as opposed to NB stumbling into them either as a result of the injuries he sustained upstairs and/or attempting to flee from the perp?

There's no evidence NB sustained his upstairs gsw's in the bedroom.

Perhaps a slight breeze wafted through and caused the disruption that you wouldn't really notice unless you were looking for it? Seriously - you have seen the CS pictures of the kitchen, I can't believe you are seriously suggesting the above!

[Caroline]

I can't believe that a group of experienced police officers would  come to any conclusion based solely on the testimony of one 24 year old man.

What do you think he got rid of, that would have pointed a finger at him? The police did ask his permission to get rid of carpets, mattresses, etc.

I don't believe, for one moment, that June wanted the twins to go into care, and even if she had, Colin would never have gone along with it.  She might well have wanted Sheila and the boys to go and live at WHF, or she might have suggested some kind of foster/day care. I don't know what happened, as I wasn't there, but it doesn't seem inconceivable that the family might have had an argument over the care of the twins. We cannot assume that, just because Jeremy said it happened, that it didn't happen------IMO.

Why would they have reason to doubt him when he staged the scene, a scene that seemed to corroborate what he had said - on the surface.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Why would they have reason to doubt him when he staged the scene, a scene that seemed to corroborate what he had said - on the surface.

I agree. The set up by him would look, initially, like as he said- the drama played out well- even better than he
probably expected.

• Deranged sister
  No forced entry
  locked from the inside
   Sheila with the gun on her person- and being dead

Incidentally, where did she fire the shots? under chin- into mouth or at forehead?

[mrswah]

Why would they have reason to doubt him when he staged the scene, a scene that seemed to corroborate what he had said - on the surface.

I would have expected the police to be cleverer than to take Jeremy's words  at face value, and even if they did so initially, to do so for weeks afterwards???

But then, it's possible I have been over influenced by  Inspector Frost and his "policeman's nose".

What did Jeremy tell the police, apart from that he had a sister who was a "nutter"?  When asked whether or not he thought Sheila would harm her family, he actually said that he didn't know. He didn't say he thought she would.