Why did Sheila have an INCREASED amount of Haloperidol in her system?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Holly, please answer this:
You think Nevill phoned Jeremy before he was shot, and said Sheila’s going crazy with a gun.  In order for him to know she had a gun he would either have had to see her with one or have heard the shots.  If he saw her with the gun first, then he must have encountered her downstairs before the shooting had begun, so why did he stay downstairs and not rush up the stairs as soon as he heard the first shot being fired?  In fact why did he wait downstairs until all the shooting had finished upstairs, whilst still on the phone waiting for Sheila to come back downstairs and cut the phone off?  Ah, but hang on, Nevill did go upstairs and get shot, which must have happened after the phone call that Sheila cut him off during because he wouldn’t have been able to speak after being shot, well why didn’t she shoot him downstairs then, why did she allow him to follow her up the stairs?  No, I can’t make any of this make any sense.  Help!

bump

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Also, Vanezis believes that Nevill was punched in the face - had she gotten that close, she would have been easily over-powered.

Fabulous point!

So if Holly manages to arrange a reconstruction of the fight in the kitchen, when Sheila supposedly punches Nevill in the face with a punch Tyson would be proud of, that super long rifle would’ve been dangling from her left hand...yeah, that really makes sense.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Then look a little closer! In his court testimony he agreed that injuries (bruising and lacerations) to the face could have been caused from a 'heavy' blow from a fist (or blunt object). June had a black eye and what looked like finger marks around her neck so someone also got close enough to her to make a physical assault. Jeremy claimed the black eye was pre-murders but no one other than him mentioned seeing it.

Ooh, so Sheila apparently punched both June and Nevill so hard with her fist and STILL her fingernails never broke....

She must have been like Wonder Woman.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Thanks.

He does not mention this in his statement of May '86 where he is, asked about NB's non gsw' s.

How did he respond under cross examination on this point?

What did the defence pathologist, Prof Knight, have to say about it?

You’ve posted just part of Vanezis’ cross-examination, Holly...

We can all cherrypick...

[ISpyWithMyEye]

He was asked to provide a breakdown of NB's wounds both gsw's and non-gsw's. The statement I uploaded covers his response for the non-gsw nose injury.

I thought you said previously NB sustained a broken nose?  I don't believe there's any evidence NB''s nose was broken?

Of course trauma from a blunt object covers numerous possibilities but given it is known all the other injuries were also caused by a blunt object and the butt of the rifle was broken and contained blood smears I think it unlikely any fists were involved.

But June’s black eyes  — and marks round her throat — they were obviously caused by a big hand and fist.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

He doesn't say he believed that Nevill was punched in the face though does he?

Well, he beat him violently enough to cause him to keel over.

However, Nevill couldn’t have just fallen into that position where he was balanced on one leg of the upturned chair...he’d have tumbled over and dropped to the floor.

JB manoeuvred him into that position, and probably pulled his pyjama bottoms down at the same time to humiliate him. It wouldn’t surprise if he attempted to wedge that chair lack up Nevill’s backside. That position was staged, for sure..

[ISpyWithMyEye]

He was shot 4 x's upstairs before sustaining the non gsw's and 4 gsw's to his head downstairs.  The 4 gsw's sustained upstairs were very serious and had the downstairs gsw's not supervened the upstairs ones would have killed him.  He also lost complete use of his left arm from a gsw upstairs.

Make of it what you will.  There are two schools of thought:  one think NB was too badly injured upstairs to enter into a 'violent struggle' in the kitchen.  The other thinks there was a 'violent struggle' to the extent SC could not have overpowered NB.

Well, according to Jeremy Bamber Nevill phoned him — from the kitchen. So how did Nevill manage to dial a rotary phone with the use of just one arm — and without his reading glasses? The gsw’s upstairs weren’t fatal and possibly survivable; after all, he did manage to make it downstairs AND put up a tremendous struggle in the kitchen. So much so, they fought over the rifle as Nevill tried to disarm him: Nevill couldn’t have done that with the use of just one arm.

Cases prove that when some people have been shot they’re not always aware they have been. Nevill obviously felt pain in his mouth, and blood would have been pouring out, but the shot to his arm didn’t stop him fighting for  his life.

You can try and make it look whatever fits your agenda, but you can’t argue with facts. And the facts are the underside of the mantel proved they’d violently struggled over the rifle...so actually, there’s only one possible school of thought...and that’s just one of the reasons why Jeremy was found GUILTY

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I don't know what prosecuting counsel was angling at as he talks about a fist and then states:

Given it was a blow from the instrument...

So seems to be saying it was from a blunt instrument.

Regardless Dr Vanezis said in his stat post trial he did not see anything with NB's injuries that a woman of SC's build could not inflict:

Without knowing the sequence of injuries re shot prior to other wounds causing injury to arm, I did not find it surprising that a woman of that build, in possession of a weapon possibly in a deranged state, could cause the injuries present.

No, Holly

Prosecution (and defence) have to cover all angles

At that point in cross-examination prosecution was hypothesising. He’d asked if Nevill could have been punched with a fist, and Venezis said that was possible too.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

The pathologist said he thought the downstairs gsw's were sustained when NB had stopped moving.

I think the wounds he sustained upstairs were so serious he was virtually dead by the time he reached the kitchen.

So that means he couldn’t have phoned Jeremy...

[ISpyWithMyEye]

In all probability these 4 wounds were inflicted after the victim had ceased to struggle because they have been fired in two groups on the same side of the head within a confined area thus indicating that the deceased had not moved substantially after the first wound was received".

Given that Jeremy smashed Nevill’s head in, exposing his brain, I’d too say he wasn’t moving at that stage, Holly

Jeremy just fired more bullets into Nevill in the kitchen, as he realised the police would never have believed Sheila could have beat him to death with her fists. He HAD to shoot him downstairs.

His “perfect murder” was already going pear-shaped...

[ISpyWithMyEye]

So there was no violent struggle then?  Why, if he was virtually dead was it necessary to beat him up, pull down his trousers and shoot him many more times?

 

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Holly, please answer this:
You think Nevill phoned Jeremy before he was shot, and said Sheila’s going crazy with a gun.  In order for him to know she had a gun he would either have had to see her with one or have heard the shots.  If he saw her with the gun first, then he must have encountered her downstairs before the shooting had begun, so why did he stay downstairs and not rush up the stairs as soon as he heard the first shot being fired?  In fact why did he wait downstairs until all the shooting had finished upstairs, whilst still on the phone waiting for Sheila to come back downstairs and cut the phone off?  Ah, but hang on, Nevill did go upstairs and get shot, which must have happened after the phone call that Sheila cut him off during because he wouldn’t have been able to speak after being shot, well why didn’t she shoot him downstairs then, why did she allow him to follow her up the stairs?  No, I can’t make any of this make any sense.  Help!

Ahhhhh.....fabulous post VS!

Hw can anyone wriggle out of THAT?! 

[ISpyWithMyEye]

You paint a distressing picture in your post of the events in the kitchen and the degrading way Nevill's body was left lying.

If there was no violent struggle in the kitchen because by that stage Nevill was already out of the game as a result of the gunshot wounds inflicted on him, it gives a glimpse of the utter callousness demonstrated by Jeremy Bamber as he continued beating him to death obviously with vigour.

Which in my opinion would confirm the viciousness and pent up hatred behind each and every one of the blows Jeremy Bamber directed on the head and body of his helpless mortally, wounded father as he raised the gun above his head to rain blows on his helpless father.

I wouldn't imagine the rifle stock would have been easily broken and the force used which propelled Nevill's wristw..ch across the room must have been considerable.

It is easy from a remove to forget just how hideous the slaughter was.  It was not a 'clean' kill and the blows levelled on June and Nevill as they died were personal and in conjunction with everything else he did that night gives an insight into the nature of the beast that is Jeremy Bamber.

Spot on!

[Holly Goodhead]

Spot on!

It isn't spot on at all.  Its full of conjecture and factually incorrect.

The pathologist made clear he was unable to gauge the degree of force used to cause the non gsw injuries other than one that resulted in a laceration and severe superficial skin injury without underlying fractures which he said involved considerable force from a light object.  I'm a petite female and hit golf balls with considerable force using a light object.

Where's the evidence for NB's watch coming off as a result of injuries sustained?  NB did not sustain any non-gsw injuries to his left arm and the non-gsw to his right arm was restricted to his forearm.  The watch was found near the kitchen sink under a rug.

[Caroline]

It isn't spot on at all.  Its full of conjecture and factually incorrect.

The pathologist made clear he was unable to gauge the degree of force used to cause the non gsw injuries other than one that resulted in a laceration and severe superficial skin injury without underlying fractures which he said involved considerable force from a light object.  I'm a petite female and hit golf balls with considerable force using a light object.

Where's the evidence for NB's watch coming off as a result of injuries sustained?  NB did not sustain any non-gsw injuries to his left arm and the non-gsw to his right arm was restricted to his forearm.  The watch was found near the kitchen sink under a rug.

He was "unable to gauge the degree of force used" in one sentence but in the next sentence he described the force as "considerable"?

Where in his dialogue does he state that the injury was caused by considerable force with a light object? He also agreed that it could have been caused by a heavy blow from a first or a lighter blow from a heavy object. I'm surprised G-Unit wasn't all over your posr like she ws mine ....... oh hang on, she's a supporter so would miss these little 'nuances'.