Sheila’s Nightdress

[Caroline]

I didn't say I handled a gun.  I said I loaded the cartridges into the magazine.  The purpose of the exercise was to determine whether or not I sustained any visible debris to my hands as Malcolm Fletcher claimed at trial.

Not really like for like then is it?

[APRIL]

I didn't say I handled a gun.  I said I loaded the cartridges into the magazine.  The purpose of the exercise was to determine whether or not I sustained any visible debris to my hands as Malcolm Fletcher claimed at trial.

It sounds rather like an attempt to prove Malcolm Fletcher wrong.

[Holly Goodhead]

Key word again is 'visible'. Were your hands swabbed and tested for residue? Also. residue is also transferred after firing the weapon - did you fire it?

Malcolm Fletcher claimed at trial that he sustained black debris to his hands having loaded the cartridges into the magazine.  I wanted to check this out for myself and as it turned out my hands were free of any visible debris.

What debris is transferred to the hands after discharging the rifle other than potentially gunshot resdue which wasn't tested for.

[Holly Goodhead]

It sounds rather like an attempt to prove Malcolm Fletcher wrong.

Malcolm Fletcher's testimony at trial was arguably the most important and yet there was no evidence he was appropriately qualified.  He told the court he had worked in the firearms department for 13 years and had a small amount of experience with an air rifle as a small boy.  Nothing about what exactly his experience involved, high level qualifications, membership of professional bodies or peer reviewed papers.

By his own admission the mechanism of how the blood ended up in the silencer was complicated and not fully appreciated:

457.  Mr Fletcher, the firearms expert, gave evidence to explain how blood got into the moderator if it was attached, or into the barrel if there was no moderator attached. He said that the mechanism was complicated and not then fully appreciated.

[Myster]

Malcolm Fletcher's testimony at trial was arguably the most important and yet there was no evidence he was appropriately qualified.  He told the court he had worked in the firearms department for 13 years and had a small amount of experience with an air rifle as a small boy. Nothing about what exactly his experience involved, high level qualifications, membership of professional bodies or peer reviewed papers.

By his own admission the mechanism of how the blood ended up in the silencer was complicated and not fully appreciated:

457.  Mr Fletcher, the firearms expert, gave evidence to explain how blood got into the moderator if it was attached, or into the barrel if there was no moderator attached. He said that the mechanism was complicated and not then fully appreciated.

If you gave me a £1 for every time you repeated that, I'd be a millionaire.

[Caroline]

Malcolm Fletcher claimed at trial that he sustained black debris to his hands having loaded the cartridges into the magazine.  I wanted to check this out for myself and as it turned out my hands were free of any visible debris.

What debris is transferred to the hands after discharging the rifle other than potentially gunshot resdue which wasn't tested for.

So how does the fact that you didn't get reside on your hands mean that Fletcher didn't?

I didn't say it wasn't tested for I asked if YOU fired the rifle and then had your hands tested for residue? Clearly you didn't and as such, your exercise isn't valid. Firing the gun 25 times would have left some residue on Sheila's hands/hand - ie. burnt and unburnt particles from the explosive primer.

[Caroline]

Malcolm Fletcher's testimony at trial was arguably the most important and yet there was no evidence he was appropriately qualified.  He told the court he had worked in the firearms department for 13 years and had a small amount of experience with an air rifle as a small boy.  Nothing about what exactly his experience involved, high level qualifications, membership of professional bodies or peer reviewed papers.

By his own admission the mechanism of how the blood ended up in the silencer was complicated and not fully appreciated:

457.  Mr Fletcher, the firearms expert, gave evidence to explain how blood got into the moderator if it was attached, or into the barrel if there was no moderator attached. He said that the mechanism was complicated and not then fully appreciated.

13 years of practical experience

[Holly Goodhead]

So how does the fact that you didn't get reside on your hands mean that Fletcher didn't?

The experiment was done on a like for like basis ie same cartridges, same mag and loading a full mag. It didn't surprise me as the manufacturers key features doc state they are designed to prevent residues transferring.

I didn't say it wasn't tested for I asked if YOU fired the rifle and then had your hands tested for residue? Clearly you didn't and as such, your exercise isn't valid. Firing the gun 25 times would have left some residue on Sheila's hands/hand - ie. burnt and unburnt particles from the explosive primer.

It is valid.  MF's claims of black discolouration relate to loading the cartridges into the mag not firing the rifle.  How could he fire the rifle at trial in the courtroom?

[APRIL]

Malcolm Fletcher's testimony at trial was arguably the most important and yet there was no evidence he was appropriately qualified.  He told the court he had worked in the firearms department for 13 years and had a small amount of experience with an air rifle as a small boy.  Nothing about what exactly his experience involved, high level qualifications, membership of professional bodies or peer reviewed papers.

By his own admission the mechanism of how the blood ended up in the silencer was complicated and not fully appreciated:

457.  Mr Fletcher, the firearms expert, gave evidence to explain how blood got into the moderator if it was attached, or into the barrel if there was no moderator attached. He said that the mechanism was complicated and not then fully appreciated.

But despite not reeling off a stream of letters following his name, I believe he had them. He would most certainly have had experience gained from whatever his position at the start. To me, his confidence shows in his willing admission about the complication of blood in the silencer. He didn't try to bluff his way through it.

[Caroline]

The experiment was done on a like for like basis ie same cartridges, same mag and loading a full mag. It didn't surprise me as the manufacturers key features doc state they are designed to prevent residues transferring.


It is valid.  MF's claims of black discolouration relate to loading the cartridges into the mag not firing the rifle.  How could he fire the rifle at trial in the courtroom?

I didn't say anything about firing the rifle in the courtroom.

You didn't use the same cartridges - you used the same type and they weren't even from the same batch. How could they be all those years later? You also didn't use the same magazine - you may have used a similar magazine, but not the same one. This is the thing you don't seem to understand about tests and experiments, you think because you didn't get residue on your hands, that he couldn't have either - this is way tests are replicated many, many times. Why should someone take the results of what you found, over what he found?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

As far as I know only the blood on the nightdress was tested. I can find no record of any clothes being examined for fibres or hairs.

That’s because NO clothing was found of Sheila’s that contained gun residue, people’s blood, fibres from Nevill’s pyjamas...nothing.

The only clothing found of Sheila’s was her underwear which she’d put in a bucket of water to soak, as she’d stained it with her menstrual blood. You know, the sort of thing you do when you’re planning on killing everyone including yourself...you soak your undies for the wash the next day 🙄

[ISpyWithMyEye]

What other clothes would there have been? I doubt she took more than one change of clothes with her -suggested by what appears to have been washed through leggings hanging from the banister rail- I can't think why anything, other than that which she was wearing would have need of being tested.

They didn’t find any of Sheila’s clothes out of the very few she took with her that showed signs of having dried bloodstains on them

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I was referring to those on the bodies.

Sheilas nightdress was forensically tested.

They attach sticky tape all over and pull fibres off to check for cross contamination

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Indeed, and there would be some blood splats on Sheila's night dress from that'manic' attack.

Absolutely!

Including human tissue such as brain

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Do you not think it’s possible that his pyjama bottoms were pulled down deliberately after death as the final humiliation?

I suspect they could have been — it’s the sort of thing a sadistic psychopath would do.

I also suspect Jeremy pushed Nevill’s face into the coal bucket.

By rights, after a violent beating and being shot too, your body would just collapse into a heap on the floor, and he seemed to be in a very unnatural position. That chart was upturned too, so how on earth could he have landed on it like that without falling off?

He must have been put in that position, and obviously you’d need strength to do that.