Sheila’s Nightdress

[Vertigo Swirl]

Not in the location the holes and black particles were found in. 

None of the other victims sustained holes and black. particles to their nightwear.

So what are you suggesting?

[The General]

Not in the location the holes and black particles were found in. 

None of the other victims sustained holes and black. particles to their nightwear.

Particles of what?

[Holly Goodhead]

So what are you suggesting?

It was discussed here in some detail:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8279.msg410906#msg410906

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I was forgetting about the small holes found on SC's nightdress surrounded by black particles?  What caused them?

I haven’t read that.

Please provide evidence.

Before you do (if you can...) I can tell you now that small holes surrounded by black particles are caused by cigarettes.

I had a tenant who I eventually evicted as he smoked roll-ups secretly in bed, and caused small black holes with black surrounds over a crisp white beautiful duvet cover which cost an arm and leg, and I was fuming. Besides smoking in bed and destroying expensive bedding he took tye battery out the fire alarm. He was a total fire risk.

Anyway, that’s off topic, but IF there were holes like that in Sheila’s nightdress it would have definitely been cigarette burns where lit tobacco flicked from her cigarettes.

[Miss Taken Identity]

I haven’t read that.

Please provide evidence.

Before you do (if you can...) I can tell you now that small holes surrounded by black particles are caused by cigarettes.

I had a tenant who I eventually evicted as he smoked roll-ups secretly in bed, and caused small black holes with black surrounds over a crisp white beautiful duvet cover which cost an arm and leg, and I was fuming. Besides smoking in bed and destroying expensive bedding he took tye battery out the fire alarm. He was a total fire risk.

Anyway, that’s off topic, but IF there were holes like that in Sheila’s nightdress it would have definitely been cigarette burns where lit tobacco flicked from her cigarettes.

That does sound like a reasonable explanation.I wonder what others are on offer...

[The General]

That does sound like a reasonable explanation.I wonder what others are on offer...

Commonly known as potholes. Usually when smoking the old Red Leb resin. Doesn't happen as much now apparently, due to the proliferation of grass derivative.

[Caroline]

I haven’t read that.

Please provide evidence.

Before you do (if you can...) I can tell you now that small holes surrounded by black particles are caused by cigarettes.

I had a tenant who I eventually evicted as he smoked roll-ups secretly in bed, and caused small black holes with black surrounds over a crisp white beautiful duvet cover which cost an arm and leg, and I was fuming. Besides smoking in bed and destroying expensive bedding he took tye battery out the fire alarm. He was a total fire risk.

Anyway, that’s off topic, but IF there were holes like that in Sheila’s nightdress it would have definitely been cigarette burns where lit tobacco flicked from her cigarettes.

My psychology stats lecturer used to have shirts and sweaters covered with these holes 
 

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I was forgetting about the small holes found on SC's nightdress surrounded by black particles?  What caused them?

Holly, I did ask you for source/evidence to these small holes allegedly found on Sheila’s nightdress, but you haven’t presented them to us: are you still looking for them?

[mrswah]

Holly, I did ask you for source/evidence to these small holes allegedly found on Sheila’s nightdress, but you haven’t presented them to us: are you still looking for them?

Follow the link that Holly posted above!

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Follow the link that Holly posted above!

Only just noticed this, thank you, MrsWah!

I read the link to the discussion Holly put up where this was discussed in 2017

It appears others believed these tiny holes were caused by cigarettes too, and they were right. I’ve seen same holes with my own eyes on bed linen, and no amount of washing will remove the black burnt edges surrounding the holes, simply because they’ve been burned and irreparable.Similar to a scorch mark: you can’t wash it away as the material is permanently damaged.

[APRIL]

Only just noticed this, thank you, MrsWah!

I read the link to the discussion Holly put up where this was discussed in 2017

It appears others believed these tiny holes were caused by cigarettes too, and they were right. I’ve seen same holes with my own eyes on bed linen, and no amount of washing will remove the black burnt edges surrounding the holes, simply because they’ve been burned and irreparable.Similar to a scorch mark: you can’t wash it away as the material is permanently damaged.

This appears to happen when the material has an element of 'poly' in it. The nylon constituent causes the material to melt, rather than burn.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

This appears to happen when the material has an element of 'poly' in it. The nylon constituent causes the material to melt, rather than burn.

It happens in cotton and linen too, April.

But especially in polyester type materials, which I’d imagine Sheila’s nightdress had a mixture of cotton & poly. Whatever, they’re definitely typical sparks from cigarettes, especially roll-ups, which tend to float down a lot when they’re inhaling. An elderly friend of the family was always flicking them off his jumper as he had a roll-up in his mouth 

[Holly Goodhead]

Only just noticed this, thank you, MrsWah!

I read the link to the discussion Holly put up where this was discussed in 2017

It appears others believed these tiny holes were caused by cigarettes too, and they were right. I’ve seen same holes with my own eyes on bed linen, and no amount of washing will remove the black burnt edges surrounding the holes, simply because they’ve been burned and irreparable.Similar to a scorch mark: you can’t wash it away as the material is permanently damaged.

Others formed a range of opinions. 

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Others formed a range of opinions.

Yep, and reached no conclusions...

I still say they’d be cigarette burns & the forensics obviously didn’t find them significant ; they didn’t contain blood, gun residue — so I expect the only sensible opinion is that they were cigarette burns. Sheila was a chain smoker, don’t forget.

[Holly Goodhead]

I don't believe SC's nightdress was tested for GSR?  But let's assume it was, given SC sustained 2 contact gsw's and was in an environment where the rifle was discharged  numerous times ie 8 gsw's June it wouldn't really tell us much since GSR forms a cloud upon discharge and deposits indiscriminately on anything in the vicinity.

In terms of MF's claims re waxy substance and gun oil afaik these are not established scientific tests routinely used by independent forensic service providers?  Which begs the question why MF would expect to find such debris when the rest of the forensic science community wouldn't be looking?

List of UK based forensic service providers.  Afaik the only reliable test used to determine whether someone has recently discharged a firearm is a test for GSR.

https://www.justicedirectory.co.uk/directory/forensic-services/

In terms of whether SC's nightdress was free from victims' blood, other than her own, how would we know when the type of tests used in 85/86 required stains of a certain size and quality? If the nightdress hadn't been destroyed by Essex Police against all protocols it could be tested using DNA tests.