Nevill was first shot as he exited his bedroom.

[Caroline]

If the phone had been dangling he would have got straight through when he tried to call him back and would have heard noises within the house.  I wonder why he did not mention this in his statement.

Because there was no call.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Because there was no call.

Well quite but I’m interested in hearing the excuse from the supporter.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I've told you how I think the killings were committed. 

A shooting reconstruction should have taken place at the time so there's no expert evidence but I told you on another thread how I believe they were committed.  I'll look up my old threads.

In a nutshell:

- NB makes the call to JB
- Whilst NB on call to JB, SC opens fire on June who was in bed with her head on the pillow.  June sustains 6 gsw's
- NB hearing shots ring out, drops the phone and runs upstairs where he sustains 2 gsw's to his face on the landing.
- NB turns to retreat downstairs and when he's standing on the main staircase he sustains the 2 gsw's to his rear: shoulder and elbow/chest.
- NB makes it to the kitchen where he sustains the beating
- SC reloads and inflicts the 4 gsw's to the head

I arrived at the above based on the following:

- Layout of WHF
- Pathological evidence particularly wound tracks and trajectories.
- Casings
- Blood stains to carpets, kitchen floor and wallpaper in hall.  Also lack of any trace of NB's blood in bedroom.
- Distance of shots

If you and/or others disagree perhaps you could give explain how you think SC or JB committed the killings.

Nevill Bamber according to your scenario was either already downstairs with Sheila, who “went crazy” and grabbed a gun but didn’t shoot Nevill at that point choosing instead to turn her back on him and go upstairs, leaving him downstairs where he had the opportunity of following her to prevent her going even crazier with a gun but instead decides to phone his son, only going upstairs minutes later when he hears shots OR
He was upstairs when Sheila came into the master bedroom, she didn’t fire any shots at that point and somehow Nevill managed to get past her to to go downstairs leaving her in the bedroom with his wife, so that he could phone his son and it was only when he heard shots being fired that he decided to return upstairs.

Neither of these scenarios works for me.  Holly, how about you?

[Vertigo Swirl]

I have found Holly’s theory and it seems she has put her money on the first scenario I painted

“It seems clear to me that NB and SC were downstairs.  NB phoned JB.  Meanwhile SC goes upstairs and shoots June *5 or 6 times.  NB races upstairs and as he approaches the bedroom door he is stood on the landing stairs putting SC in an elevated position at the bedroom door which accounts for the downward trajectories of NB's lip and jaw gsw's.  NB then turns and is positioned on the main stairs facing down towards the hall when SC repositions herself either on the winder stairs or main stairs and fires down hitting the rear of NB's shoulder and elbow/chest which again accounts for the downward trajectories to the rear of his body. 

Once NB and SC are in the kitchen poor NB is so badly injured he is unable to put up any sort of resistance and is beaten with the rifle and then sustains the four gsw's to the head.

June staggers around the bed clutching the bible but drops it pretty much where it was found.  She manages to stagger back to the corner of the bed near the door where she sustains the two fatal gsw's to her head. 

After the twins are shot SC enters the main bedroom via the box room and takes her own life.  When she enters the main bedroom she inadvertently moves the bible with the door causing the mirror staining.

I think it was all over very quickly and more than likely before the police and JB arrived.”

So we have to accept that for reasons unknown both Nevill and Sheila found themselves downstairs at 3 in the morning, and that for reasons unknown and witnessed by Nevill Sheila picked up gun, attached magazine, did not turn it on Nevill at that point  (would have been a good idea seeing as how he was her biggest threat) and instead turned her back on him (leaving him downstairs with the phone and other guns), went upstairs, Nevill picked up phone, Jeremy answered  (was his phone next to his bed, if not how long before Nevill got through?) Nevill said the immortal words “Sheila’s gone crazy, she’s got a gun”, moments later heard gunshots but didn’t mention these to Jeremy, dropped phone and decided it was time to tackle Sheila.  Meanwhile Jeremy hung up his phone, dialled Nevill back immediately but got an engaged tone despite the phone being off the hook, he rang a couple of times having a last number redial button on his phone which he says took 20 or 30 seconds, hung up again and was able to phone his girlfriend.  10 minutes later he gets through to the police. 

No, I’m not buying that, it doesn’t sound plausible at all.

[Caroline]

I have found Holly’s theory and it seems she has put her money on the first scenario I painted

“It seems clear to me that NB and SC were downstairs.  NB phoned JB.  Meanwhile SC goes upstairs and shoots June *5 or 6 times.  NB races upstairs and as he approaches the bedroom door he is stood on the landing stairs putting SC in an elevated position at the bedroom door which accounts for the downward trajectories of NB's lip and jaw gsw's.  NB then turns and is positioned on the main stairs facing down towards the hall when SC repositions herself either on the winder stairs or main stairs and fires down hitting the rear of NB's shoulder and elbow/chest which again accounts for the downward trajectories to the rear of his body. 

Once NB and SC are in the kitchen poor NB is so badly injured he is unable to put up any sort of resistance and is beaten with the rifle and then sustains the four gsw's to the head.

June staggers around the bed clutching the bible but drops it pretty much where it was found.  She manages to stagger back to the corner of the bed near the door where she sustains the two fatal gsw's to her head. 

After the twins are shot SC enters the main bedroom via the box room and takes her own life.  When she enters the main bedroom she inadvertently moves the bible with the door causing the mirror staining.

I think it was all over very quickly and more than likely before the police and JB arrived.”

So we have to accept that for reasons unknown both Nevill and Sheila found themselves downstairs at 3 in the morning, and that for reasons unknown and witnessed by Nevill Sheila picked up gun, attached magazine, did not turn it on Nevill at that point  (would have been a good idea seeing as how he was her biggest threat) and instead turned her back on him (leaving him downstairs with the phone and other guns), went upstairs, Nevill picked up phone, Jeremy answered  (was his phone next to his bed, if not how long before Nevill got through?) Nevill said the immortal words “Sheila’s gone crazy, she’s got a gun”, moments later heard gunshots but didn’t mention these to Jeremy, dropped phone and decided it was time to tackle Sheila.  Meanwhile Jeremy hung up his phone, dialled Nevill back immediately but got an engaged tone despite the phone being off the hook, hung up again and was able to phone the police.

No, I’m not buying that, it doesn’t sound plausible at all.

Jeremy's phone was downstairs and no, it doesn't sound plausible because instead of calling Jeremy, he'd have stopped her picking it up in the first place, never mind stopped her from going upstairs with it.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I can't see anything about the physical evidence in the above: blood stains, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks.

That’s because I wasn't discussing them, Holly

I can do a new post on those — although they’ve all been documented for 35 years...😊

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I don't know what NB's definition of "crazy" was in relation to SC's mental illness.

I will add to your thread tomorrow or Sat as I start switching off at this time of night.

Have your read Farhad Emani's wit stat who was SC's boyfriend?  He witnessed SC when she became psychotic.

Yes, Holly

On just one occasion — when Sheila wasn’t on her medication — she did go psychotic. In fact, she was in a terrible state — crying, hysterical, talking incoherently  — but she didn’t attempt to hurt anyone. She didn’t hurt the twins, Farhad, herself — nor threatened to.

Farhad called her doctor, and eventually she had a home visit and was given medication. But she wasn’t certified; she wasn’t in danger to herself or to others; and it quickly calmed down.

[Holly Goodhead]

That’s because I wasn't discussing them, Holly

I can do a new post on those — although they’ve all been documented for 35 years...😊

No expert evidence exists as to exactly how JB supposedly committed these crimes based on the physical evidence. 

People will say JB bust into the bedroom and shot NB and June.  They overlook facts like the gsw's NB sustained to his face were inflicted when the barrel was within inches of his face and the trajectories were around 10 to 12 degrees below the horizontal.   The gsw's NB sustained to his rear were fired when the barrel was about 2 feet away from the body.  The rifle is 48" in length.  The pathologist said the wound NB sustained to his shoulder was fired from above.  NB was 6'4", JB 6'0" and SC 5'7".  How did NB receive this gsw in the bedroom?  Even if you put JB/SC on top of the wardrobe I doubt you could get the downward trajectory that correlates with the wound track. You certainly wouldn't get it by them standing on the bed or chair. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Yes, Holly

On just one occasion — when Sheila wasn’t on her medication — she did go psychotic. In fact, she was in a terrible state — crying, hysterical, talking incoherently  — but she didn’t attempt to hurt anyone. She didn’t hurt the twins, Farhad, herself — nor threatened to.

Farhad called her doctor, and eventually she had a home visit and was given medication. But she wasn’t certified; she wasn’t in danger to herself or to others; and it quickly calmed down.

I don't recall Freddy saying SC was crying.  You are correct she didn't harm anyone but he did fear for his safety and that of others.  SC would not allow the doctors near her:

[Holly Goodhead]

And last page

[Nicholas]

I don't recall Freddy saying SC was crying.  You are correct she didn't harm anyone but he did fear for his safety and that of others.  SC would not allow the doctors near her:

Very much doubt he was being honest here but by suggesting he feared for his safety makes it appear he’s the victim and it keeps attention away from what’s he’s done

Wasn’t he her supplier or a drugs dealer or something?

When did this event occur and when did he make his statement? Did he tell anyone he feared for his safety at the time?

And if he feared for his safety he presumably never saw her again afterwards?

[Nicholas]

Yes, Holly

On just one occasion — when Sheila wasn’t on her medication — she did go psychotic. In fact, she was in a terrible state — crying, hysterical, talking incoherently  — but she didn’t attempt to hurt anyone. She didn’t hurt the twins, Farhad, herself — nor threatened to.

Farhad called her doctor, and eventually she had a home visit and was given medication. But she wasn’t certified; she wasn’t in danger to herself or to others; and it quickly calmed down.

What did his previous partners say about him and what have they said since?

Is he a reliable witness Holly?

[Vertigo Swirl]

No expert evidence exists as to exactly how JB supposedly committed these crimes based on the physical evidence. 

People will say JB bust into the bedroom and shot NB and June.  They overlook facts like the gsw's NB sustained to his face were inflicted when the barrel was within inches of his face and the trajectories were around 10 to 12 degrees below the horizontal.   The gsw's NB sustained to his rear were fired when the barrel was about 2 feet away from the body.  The rifle is 48" in length.  The pathologist said the wound NB sustained to his shoulder was fired from above.  NB was 6'4", JB 6'0" and SC 5'7".  How did NB receive this gsw in the bedroom?  Even if you put JB/SC on top of the wardrobe I doubt you could get the downward trajectory that correlates with the wound track. You certainly wouldn't get it by them standing on the bed or chair.

You have Sheila shooting him on the stairs, why not Jeremy?

[Nicholas]

So we have to accept that for reasons unknown both Nevill and Sheila found themselves downstairs at 3 in the morning, and that for reasons unknown and witnessed by Nevill Sheila picked up gun, attached magazine, did not turn it on Nevill at that point  (would have been a good idea seeing as how he was her biggest threat) and instead turned her back on him (leaving him downstairs with the phone and other guns), went upstairs, Nevill picked up phone, Jeremy answered  (was his phone next to his bed, if not how long before Nevill got through?) Nevill said the immortal words “Sheila’s gone crazy, she’s got a gun”, moments later heard gunshots but didn’t mention these to Jeremy, dropped phone and decided it was time to tackle Sheila.  Meanwhile Jeremy hung up his phone, dialled Nevill back immediately but got an engaged tone despite the phone being off the hook, he rang a couple of times having a last number redial button on his phone which he says took 20 or 30 seconds, hung up again and was able to phone his girlfriend.  10 minutes later he gets through to the police. 

No, I’m not buying that, it doesn’t sound plausible at all.

It doesn’t

[Vertigo Swirl]

Sheila was presumably mad with rage and this is what prompts her to pick up the gun and put in the magazine, an action she must have committed deftly or Nevill would surely have stopped her, and then proceeds upstairs.  How long would it have taken her to leave Nevill and go upstairs, in seconds?