Author Topic: The phone call  (Read 20638 times)

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Offline Common sense

Re: The phone call
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2020, 12:11:53 AM »
I was always taught that one should be able to debate both sides but whenever I try to argue for Bambers innocence, I immediately get stuck with the phone call.

Not only does it make no sense for Nevill to turn his back on an armed and dangerous Sheila to try and rouse his son in the middle of the night, the timings of JBs two calls are too uncertain to be able to draw any firm conclusions.

This is not helped by sloppy record keeping by the police and muddied further by Bamber changing his story to fit with the ludicrously misrepresented call log "evidence" that Nevill called police himself at 3.26.

In his first WS, he claimed that after trying to return NBs 3.10am call and getting the engaged tone, he "immediately" called the police and then called JM at 3.25 for some "reassurance" ( but not mentioning anything about Sheila or a gun )

After his arrest, he admits that he had to look up the number in the phone book and this took 10 minutes. He says that he called Julie before he called the police but only for a minute or two "because he had to call the police" - again there is no mention of any guns in this conversation in which he is seeking advice/reassurance from JM. Nor is there any mention of his attempt to phone Witham but getting no answer.
 
When he is challenged about the changed order of his calls, he claims he is muddled up and that his original WS was correct despite his apparent certainty in both of his accounts.

I don't want to write an essay in my first post so will conclude with this passage from the appeal judgement regarding how long it would take to reset the line although I think the point is moot. If NB did call and terminated it but left the receiver off the hook then JBs description of getting the engaged tone would fit. If the receiver was not terminated at the callers end, Bamber would have had to replace his receiver for 1-2 minutes before he could call but he makes no mention of remaining connected and we cannot know the actual state of the telephones that night.

 There was no evidence of telephone billing information of the sort which would be available these days. There was, however, expert evidence called as to the effect of a telephone call having been made from White House Farm to Goldhanger which was then abandoned by the caller with the receiver being left off the cradle, as claimed by the appellant. If such a sequence had occurred, the telephone link would have remained open either until the handset at White House Farm was replaced or until the handset at Goldhanger had been replaced and left in position for a period which could vary from 1 to 2 minutes, when an automatic interruption of the link would take place. Until one or other of these events, the appellant would have been unable to make any call from the Goldhanger telephone.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2020, 07:42:33 AM »
According to JM's first wit stat she was half asleep and not fully aware of what JB said.

The tel eng doesn't actually state the length of time the  receiver (JB) would need to replace the handset on the hook to clear the line to call out if the caller (NB) hadn't returned the handset to hook.  It is dependent on the 'force release' which is up to 2 minutes but the minimum period was unknown'.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Common sense

Re: The phone call
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2020, 08:33:34 AM »
I can vaguely remember the old telephones and if you were calling someone and then making another call straight after, you wouldn't put the receiver on the hook, you would depress the force release buttons with a finger for a couple of seconds to clear the line and get the dial tone while still holding the handset to make the second call.

I seem to recall JB claiming to hear Crispy in the background after NB spoke at one point but can't think where I saw this and could be wrong - if JB said this then all of his WS and interview accounts are wrong as he would have had to clear the line himself before calling back to get the engaged tone. 

Like I say, the point is moot because we shall never know for certain whether NB supposedly dropped the phone without depressing the force release, pressed the FR intending to make another call but then dropped the receiver in a hurry, someone else pressed the FR or, my favoured scenario; NB simply didn't make any calls that night, he was too busy getting shot by his greedy thieving son.

Offline G-Unit

Re: The phone call
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2020, 09:00:19 AM »
I remember the 80's very well. If the phone was left off the hook after a call it would make a noise to alert you; a continuous loud tone.
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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2020, 09:06:34 AM »
I can vaguely remember the old telephones and if you were calling someone and then making another call straight after, you wouldn't put the receiver on the hook, you would depress the force release buttons with a finger for a couple of seconds to clear the line and get the dial tone while still holding the handset to make the second call.

I seem to recall JB claiming to hear Crispy in the background after NB spoke at one point but can't think where I saw this and could be wrong - if JB said this then all of his WS and interview accounts are wrong as he would have had to clear the line himself before calling back to get the engaged tone. 

Like I say, the point is moot because we shall never know for certain whether NB supposedly dropped the phone without depressing the force release, pressed the FR intending to make another call but then dropped the receiver in a hurry, someone else pressed the FR or, my favoured scenario; NB simply didn't make any calls that night, he was too busy getting shot by his greedy thieving son.

It was the GPO operator who heard Crispy having opened up the line to listen in.

But the point is, I think, the 'force-release' mechanism was on a loop of up to 2 mins but the eng was unable to quote a minimum so JB could have replaced the handset, picked it up immediately and dialled out.

If JB received such a tel call do we know for sure he called back straight away and didn't do some other thing eg go to the loo?

This is why imo a reconstruction is so important.  If it places NB on the landing stairs with the perp firing out from the bedroom it lends support to JB's claim of a tel call ie NB possibly coming up the main staircase from the kitchen having made the tel call to NB with SC already in the bedroom shooting June until she turns her attention to NB on the landing.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: The phone call
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2020, 09:14:18 AM »
No mention about making any deposit here... https://soundcloud.com/you/tracks
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The phone call
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2020, 09:19:41 AM »
It was the GPO operator who heard Crispy having opened up the line to listen in.

But the point is, I think, the 'force-release' mechanism was on a loop of up to 2 mins but the eng was unable to quote a minimum so JB could have replaced the handset, picked it up immediately and dialled out.

If JB received such a tel call do we know for sure he called back straight away and didn't do some other thing eg go to the loo?

This is why imo a reconstruction is so important.  If it places NB on the landing stairs with the perp firing out from the bedroom it lends support to JB's claim of a tel call ie NB possibly coming up the main staircase from the kitchen having made the tel call to NB with SC already in the bedroom shooting June until she turns her attention to NB on the landing.
Are you suggesting that a reconstruction would involve Bamber himself, who might suddenly conveniently remember 35 years after the event that his first action on hearing his distressed father’s call was to go to the toilet?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Nicholas

Re: The phone call
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2020, 09:24:18 AM »
I was always taught that one should be able to debate both sides but whenever I try to argue for Bambers innocence, I immediately get stuck with the phone call.

Not only does it make no sense for Nevill to turn his back on an armed and dangerous Sheila to try and rouse his son in the middle of the night, the timings of JBs two calls are too uncertain to be able to draw any firm conclusions.

This is not helped by sloppy record keeping by the police and muddied further by Bamber changing his story to fit with the ludicrously misrepresented call log "evidence" that Nevill called police himself at 3.26.

In his first WS, he claimed that after trying to return NBs 3.10am call and getting the engaged tone, he "immediately" called the police and then called JM at 3.25 for some "reassurance" ( but not mentioning anything about Sheila or a gun )

After his arrest, he admits that he had to look up the number in the phone book and this took 10 minutes. He says that he called Julie before he called the police but only for a minute or two "because he had to call the police" - again there is no mention of any guns in this conversation in which he is seeking advice/reassurance from JM. Nor is there any mention of his attempt to phone Witham but getting no answer.
 
When he is challenged about the changed order of his calls, he claims he is muddled up and that his original WS was correct despite his apparent certainty in both of his accounts.

 8((()*/
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The phone call
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2020, 09:26:04 AM »
According to JM's first wit stat she was half asleep and not fully aware of what JB said.

What’s this got to do with ‘the phone call’ ?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2020, 09:26:07 AM »
I remember the 80's very well. If the phone was left off the hook after a call it would make a noise to alert you; a continuous loud tone.

But wasn't that if the handset hadn't been replaced properly?

If A called B and they ended the call by returning handsets to cradle but if either didn't return properly the loud continuous noise would start up? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

Re: The phone call
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2020, 09:26:56 AM »
I remember the 80's very well. If the phone was left off the hook after a call it would make a noise to alert you; a continuous loud tone.

But wasn't that if the handset hadn't been replaced properly?

If A called B and they ended the call by returning handsets to cradle but if either didn't return properly the loud continuous noise would start up?

 *%87
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Common sense

Re: The phone call
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2020, 10:04:32 AM »
It was the GPO operator who heard Crispy having opened up the line to listen in.

But the point is, I think, the 'force-release' mechanism was on a loop of up to 2 mins but the eng was unable to quote a minimum so JB could have replaced the handset, picked it up immediately and dialled out.

If JB received such a tel call do we know for sure he called back straight away and didn't do some other thing eg go to the loo?

This is why imo a reconstruction is so important.  If it places NB on the landing stairs with the perp firing out from the bedroom it lends support to JB's claim of a tel call ie NB possibly coming up the main staircase from the kitchen having made the tel call to NB with SC already in the bedroom shooting June until she turns her attention to NB on the landing.

Nope, the line could only be immediately disconnected at the callers end - JB would have had to replace the receiver for at least a minute as per the expert evidence.

I think your famous reconstructions would be interesting but would likely be inconclusive and throw up more than one scenario. It's not impossible that NB was shot in his left side as he bolted out of bed and made for the kitchen with the killer following him for instance. It was only a short distance to the door and the landing so there is no certainty any of his blood should have been found in the bedroom and even less certainty that the useless police would have found it. In the split seconds it would have taken him to bolt to the door, perhaps only tiny amounts would have been left and tiny amounts could not be tested in those days. 

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2020, 10:39:27 AM »
Nope, the line could only be immediately disconnected at the callers end - JB would have had to replace the receiver for at least a minute as per the expert evidence.

I think your famous reconstructions would be interesting but would likely be inconclusive and throw up more than one scenario. It's not impossible that NB was shot in his left side as he bolted out of bed and made for the kitchen with the killer following him for instance. It was only a short distance to the door and the landing so there is no certainty any of his blood should have been found in the bedroom and even less certainty that the useless police would have found it. In the split seconds it would have taken him to bolt to the door, perhaps only tiny amounts would have been left and tiny amounts could not be tested in those days.

The chartered engineer concluded his statement as follows:

The force-release period is up to 2 minutes although I cannot state what the minimum period is.

If it had to be left in place for 1 minute or some other time period he would say as much but he can't meaning JB could have called back straight away.

The reconstruction needs to be placed on the totality of the physical evidence at soc as per the following to establish perp/victim location:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780123822413/shooting-incident-reconstruction
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The phone call
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2020, 10:47:22 AM »
The chartered engineer concluded his statement as follows:

The force-release period is up to 2 minutes although I cannot state what the minimum period is.

If it had to be left in place for 1 minute or some other time period he would say as much but he can't meaning JB could have called back straight away.

The reconstruction needs to be placed on the totality of the physical evidence at soc as per the following to establish perp/victim location:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780123822413/shooting-incident-reconstruction
I have asked you some questions on the reconstruction thread.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Re: The phone call
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2020, 11:49:31 AM »
But wasn't that if the handset hadn't been replaced properly?

If A called B and they ended the call by returning handsets to cradle but if either didn't return properly the loud continuous noise would start up?

Yes, it was designed to warn you that you were still connected (and, I suppose, being charged). I have to admit the phone confuses me. If anyone can enlighten me I would be grateful.

Why did the police ask the operator to try to connect?
Was it possible to connect if the phone had been hung up?
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