The phone call

[Caroline]

But wasn't that if the handset hadn't been replaced properly?

If A called B and they ended the call by returning handsets to cradle but if either didn't return properly the loud continuous noise would start up?

No, there was no 'howler' it had to be initiated by an engineer and the Maldon exchange wasn't manned at night.

[Holly Goodhead]

Yes, it was designed to warn you that you were still connected (and, I suppose, being charged). I have to admit the phone confuses me. If anyone can enlighten me I would be grateful.

Why did the police ask the operator to try to connect?
Was it possible to connect if the phone had been hung up?

Hopefully the GPO Operator's wit stat will answer your questions: 

[Common sense]

The chartered engineer concluded his statement as follows:

The force-release period is up to 2 minutes although I cannot state what the minimum period is.

If it had to be left in place for 1 minute or some other time period he would say as much but he can't meaning JB could have called back straight away.

The reconstruction needs to be placed on the totality of the physical evidence at soc as per the following to establish perp/victim location:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780123822413/shooting-incident-reconstruction

It's useless information because there is no way of knowing if NB terminated the call before he dropped the handset. All we know is that the phone was found off the hook and that JB made no mention of having to clear the line from his end. There is nothing probative here.

I think you could conjure up at least a couple of scenarios to explain the physical evidence leaving us no further forward. If the physical evidence could have pointed to anything other than speculation either the defence or prosecution would have made use of it.

[Caroline]

It's useless information because there is no way of knowing if NB terminated the call before he dropped the handset. All we know is that the phone was found off the hook and that JB made no mention of having to clear the line from his end. There is nothing probative here.

I think you could conjure up at least a couple of scenarios to explain the physical evidence leaving us no further forward. If the physical evidence could have pointed to anything other than speculation either the defence or prosecution would have made use of it.

I like you, we have the same thinking! 

[APRIL]

It's useless information because there is no way of knowing if NB terminated the call before he dropped the handset. All we know is that the phone was found off the hook and that JB made no mention of having to clear the line from his end. There is nothing probative here.

I think you could conjure up at least a couple of scenarios to explain the physical evidence leaving us no further forward. If the physical evidence could have pointed to anything other than speculation either the defence or prosecution would have made use of it.

There is much, now being claimed to have significance, which was available for further scrutiny, at the time. I think we may be absolutely certain that, if either side had seen anything they could have used to their advantage, they would have. Having read the book written by a prosecuting barrister, from the time he was in training, it appears their prime interest is in having a story a jury will buy. I've often speculated that Jeremy's defence didn't believe they had?

[Holly Goodhead]

It's useless information because there is no way of knowing if NB terminated the call before he dropped the handset. All we know is that the phone was found off the hook and that JB made no mention of having to clear the line from his end. There is nothing probative here.

I think you could conjure up at least a couple of scenarios to explain the physical evidence leaving us no further forward. If the physical evidence could have pointed to anything other than speculation either the defence or prosecution would have made use of it.

I don't know what state the line had to be in to enable the GPO operator to listen in. If NB made a call to JB albeit JB made other calls his end did this still leave the line open NB's end?  Or is it the case that by simply removing the handset from the cradle enabled the GPO operator to listen in? I agree there doesn't seem to be anything probative for either side.

I disagree on the reconstruction as I think it is capable of determining NB's precise location when he sustained the upstairs gsw's.  It wasn't something explored at trial at all.  I will upload Malcom Fletcher's trial testimony (ballistics) shortly.

Gun crime is low in UK especially some 35 years ago so theres no reason to believe the QC's would have experience of shooting reconstructions. 

[John]

I don't know what state the line had to be in to enable the GPO operator to listen in. If NB made a call to JB albeit JB made other calls his end did this still leave the line open NB's end?  Or is it the case that by simply removing the handset from the cradle enabled the GPO operator to listen in? I agree there doesn't seem to be anything probative for either side.

I disagree on the reconstruction as I think it is capable of determining NB's precise location when he sustained the upstairs gsw's.  It wasn't something explored at trial at all.  I will upload Malcom Fletcher's trial testimony (ballistics) shortly.

Gun crime is low in UK especially some 35 years ago so theres no reason to believe the QC's would have experience of shooting reconstructions.

An operator could listen in on any line, the handset doesn't need to be off the cradle for this to happen. Jeremy Bamber claimed that his father phoned him at his cottage and that the line went dead while he was speaking to him. Does anyone really believe for a minute that Sheila could have done this?

I don't believe a reliable reconstruction of the shooting in the bedroom could be accomplished since all we know is where Nevill was when he was shot and approximately where his killer was standing.

[Common sense]

An operator could listen in on any line, the handset doesn't need to be off the cradle for this to happen. Jeremy Bamber claimed that his father phoned him at his cottage and that the line went dead while he was speaking to him. Does anyone really believe for a minute that Sheila could have done this?

I don't believe a reliable reconstruction of the shooting in the bedroom could be accomplished since all we know is where Nevill was when he was shot and approximately where his killer was standing.

Not for a moment no. The idea that Sheila got close enough to depress the doodah giving an uninjured NB a chance to disarm her when they then both got back upstairs where the shooting starts is as unlikely as NB choosing to call his idiot son in the first place to my mind. How was he supposed to help? He couldn't even get in unless NB expected him to do his well practised window trick.


I agree, there seems too many variables. No one knows if the cartridge on the stairs was carried there on a foot or was ejected there for instance, although I will admit to not really looking into trajectories and floor plans because I am no expert and being a guilter, I don't have to prove anything.

[Nicholas]

Not for a moment no. The idea that Sheila got close enough to depress the doodah giving an uninjured NB a chance to disarm her when they then both got back upstairs where the shooting starts is as unlikely as NB choosing to call his idiot son in the first place to my mind. How was he supposed to help? He couldn't even get in unless NB expected him to do his well practised window trick.

 

[APRIL]

Not for a moment no. The idea that Sheila got close enough to depress the doodah giving an uninjured NB a chance to disarm her when they then both got back upstairs where the shooting starts is as unlikely as NB choosing to call his idiot son in the first place to my mind. How was he supposed to help? He couldn't even get in unless NB expected him to do his well practised window trick.


I agree, there seems too many variables. No one knows if the cartridge on the stairs was carried there on a foot or was ejected there for instance, although I will admit to not really looking into trajectories and floor plans because I am no expert and being a guilter, I don't have to prove anything.

Apart from all else, in an emergency, WHY would he risk making a call which maybe neither heard, nor answered?

[Caroline]

An operator could listen in on any line, the handset doesn't need to be off the cradle for this to happen. Jeremy Bamber claimed that his father phoned him at his cottage and that the line went dead while he was speaking to him. Does anyone really believe for a minute that Sheila could have done this?

I don't believe a reliable reconstruction of the shooting in the bedroom could be accomplished since all we know is where Nevill was when he was shot and approximately where his killer was standing.

I have already said this about twenty times it just falls on deaf ears.

[Common sense]

I like you, we have the same thinking! 

Thank you. I have long admired you from afar. 

[Caroline]

Thank you. I have long admired you from afar. 

Aww thanks 

[Myster]

Aww thanks 

[John]

An operator could listen in on any line, the handset doesn't need to be off the cradle for this to happen. Jeremy Bamber claimed that his father phoned him at his cottage and that the line went dead while he was speaking to him. Does anyone really believe for a minute that Sheila could have done this?

I don't believe a reliable reconstruction of the shooting in the bedroom could be accomplished since all we know is where Nevill was when he was shot and approximately where his killer was standing.

I should add to this the difference between listening in on an open line as against a closed line. If the telephone cradle was down because the handset was resting on it then the microphone on the handset would be disconnected. In that situation no sound could have been heard coming from the kitchen. If the cradle was raised as was the case at White House Farm then the microphone in the handset would be live, in this case the operator would hear sounds coming from the kitchen.

As an aside, I find the proposition somewhat preposterous that Sheila could have in any way challenged her father that morning and got the better of him.  IMO, Nevill would have shut her down instantly if she was perceived as a potential threat to them all.

Clearly whoever murdered them all had to have strength and a physical presence capable of carrying out everything we now know happened.