Re-evaluation of the blood and silencer evidence

[Holly Goodhead]

Deliberate contamination if Holly’s earlier comment is anything to go by...

In terms of how June's DNA probably came to be in the silencer:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11431.msg589761#msg589761

The silencer is easily unassembled:

https://youtu.be/V7SFWHLi9cc

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly previously said the flake never existed in the first place

Perhaps you can explain the following:

Perhaps you can explain the following then:

- The drawback phenemenon is not usually observed with. 22 rifles and low velocity ammo.

- A silencer makes it less likely still.

- When it is observed it usually involves contact gunshot wounds to the head

- When it is observed it usually includes tissue with the blood

- No comparable cases in criminal history where blood inside a silencer underpins a conviction.

- None of the forensic literature, research, tests include drawback with a silencer

- No tests/modelling have been undertaken to establish whether the drawback phenemenon is possible with the rifle, ammo and silencer.

- The blood flake inside the silencer was the only blood stained exhibit capable of yielding the results claimed.

- The non-porous blood stained rifle was unable to yield any results beyond human in origin

- Blood analysed by serology requires good quality samples of a certain quantity.  Heat and humidity are known to degrade samples rendering them useless for serological analysis. The blood flake had to withstand heat from firearm discharge, humidity in the cyanoacrylate fuming chamber and gunshot residue.

- Victims' blood samples were analysed for:
   -  Antigens - ABO
   -  Haptoglobin - HP -  Protein
   -  Phosphoglucomutase - PGM -  Enzyme
   -  Adenylate Kinase - AK - Enzyme
   -  Erythrocyte Acid Phosphatase - EAP - Enzyme
The samples yielded results for all the above.

The blood flake in the silencer was analysed but unable to yield a result for the enzyme PGM. At trial John Hayward told the court PGM is less stable than AK and EAP. This contradicts advice. I was given by the Chief Forensic Serologist at the Serological Research Institute in California that PGM is more stable than AK and EAP which begs the question how/why in this case the flake was unable to yield a result for PGM?  This is currently being reviewed by a forensic scientist in private practice along with other 'evidence'

[Nicholas]

In terms of how June's DNA probably came to be in the silencer:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11431.msg589761#msg589761

The silencer is easily unassembled:

https://youtu.be/V7SFWHLi9cc

What did Bamber write to you about un-assembling the silencer Holly ?

[Nicholas]

Perhaps you can explain the following:

Perhaps you can explain the following then:

- The drawback phenemenon is not usually observed with. 22 rifles and low velocity ammo.

- A silencer makes it less likely still.

- When it is observed it usually involves contact gunshot wounds to the head

- When it is observed it usually includes tissue with the blood

- No comparable cases in criminal history where blood inside a silencer underpins a conviction.

- None of the forensic literature, research, tests include drawback with a silencer

- No tests/modelling have been undertaken to establish whether the drawback phenemenon is possible with the rifle, ammo and silencer.

- The blood flake inside the silencer was the only blood stained exhibit capable of yielding the results claimed.

- The non-porous blood stained rifle was unable to yield any results beyond human in origin

- Blood analysed by serology requires good quality samples of a certain quantity.  Heat and humidity are known to degrade samples rendering them useless for serological analysis. The blood flake had to withstand heat from firearm discharge, humidity in the cyanoacrylate fuming chamber and gunshot residue.

- Victims' blood samples were analysed for:
   -  Antigens - ABO
   -  Haptoglobin - HP -  Protein
   -  Phosphoglucomutase - PGM -  Enzyme
   -  Adenylate Kinase - AK - Enzyme
   -  Erythrocyte Acid Phosphatase - EAP - Enzyme
The samples yielded results for all the above.

The blood flake in the silencer was analysed but unable to yield a result for the enzyme PGM. At trial John Hayward told the court PGM is less stable than AK and EAP. This contradicts advice. I was given by the Chief Forensic Serologist at the Serological Research Institute in California that PGM is more stable than AK and EAP which begs the question how/why in this case the flake was unable to yield a result for PGM?  This is currently being reviewed by a forensic scientist in private practice along with other 'evidence'

There’s nothing to explain Holly

[Holly Goodhead]

Suspect Bamber’s ‘methodology’ has rubbed off on her 

Nope.  I'm afraid you're wrong.  I attempted to assist JB with this but like the 'where NB was shot' he had his own ideas so I gave up.

[Nicholas]

Nope.  I'm afraid you're wrong.

Doesn’t appear that I am Holly

[Nicholas]

I attempted to assist JB with this but like the 'where NB was shot' he had his own ideas so I gave up.

Bamber knows where he shot his dad Holly - he’s playing games with you

[Nicholas]

Nope.  I'm afraid you're wrong.  I attempted to assist JB with this but like the 'where NB was shot' he had his own ideas so I gave up.

What chart did you send that he claimed was made up by police

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Perhaps you can explain the following:

Perhaps you can explain the following then:

- The drawback phenemenon is not usually observed with. 22 rifles and low velocity ammo.

- A silencer makes it less likely still.

- When it is observed it usually involves contact gunshot wounds to the head

- When it is observed it usually includes tissue with the blood

- No comparable cases in criminal history where blood inside a silencer underpins a conviction.

- None of the forensic literature, research, tests include drawback with a silencer

- No tests/modelling have been undertaken to establish whether the drawback phenemenon is possible with the rifle, ammo and silencer.

- The blood flake inside the silencer was the only blood stained exhibit capable of yielding the results claimed.

- The non-porous blood stained rifle was unable to yield any results beyond human in origin

- Blood analysed by serology requires good quality samples of a certain quantity.  Heat and humidity are known to degrade samples rendering them useless for serological analysis. The blood flake had to withstand heat from firearm discharge, humidity in the cyanoacrylate fuming chamber and gunshot residue.

- Victims' blood samples were analysed for:
   -  Antigens - ABO
   -  Haptoglobin - HP -  Protein
   -  Phosphoglucomutase - PGM -  Enzyme
   -  Adenylate Kinase - AK - Enzyme
   -  Erythrocyte Acid Phosphatase - EAP - Enzyme
The samples yielded results for all the above.

The blood flake in the silencer was analysed but unable to yield a result for the enzyme PGM. At trial John Hayward told the court PGM is less stable than AK and EAP. This contradicts advice. I was given by the Chief Forensic Serologist at the Serological Research Institute in California that PGM is more stable than AK and EAP which begs the question how/why in this case the flake was unable to yield a result for PGM?  This is currently being reviewed by a forensic scientist in private practice along with other 'evidence'

So the blood flake DID exist — and still does?

You said it was a hoax 😳

I take it this specialist in America will be able to determine the DNA belongs to Sheila, and I take it he’ll be able to say how red paint from the mantel managed to plop itself on the end of the silencer?

I also take it that this specialist will also be able to determine that Sheila must have had the strength of the Incredible Hulk and the magical powers of Superman to have been able to beat Nevill to a pulp in the kitchen, then fly through the air upstairs avoiding treading on all his blood on the kitchen floor, all the sugar that overturned, and all the thousands of shards of glass from the broken lampshade ?

[Nicholas]

So the blood flake DID exist — and still does?

You said it was a hoax 😳

I take it this specialist in America will be able to determine the DNA belongs to Sheila, and I take it he’ll be able to say how red paint from the mantel managed to plop itself on the end of the silencer?

I also take it that this specialist will also be able to determine that Sheila must have had the strength of the Incredible Hulk and the magical powers of Superman to have been able to beat Nevill to a pulp in the kitchen, then fly through the air upstairs avoiding treading on all his blood on the kitchen floor, all the sugar that overturned, and all the thousands of shards of glass from the broken lampshade ?

a ‘hoax’ her and ‘a forensic scientist’ are reviewing 

  This is currently being reviewed by a forensic scientist in private practice along with other 'evidence'

[Holly Goodhead]

So the blood flake DID exist — and still does?

You said it was a hoax 😳

I take it this specialist in America will be able to determine the DNA belongs to Sheila, and I take it he’ll be able to say how red paint from the mantel managed to plop itself on the end of the silencer?

What evidence exists to show a flake of blood was trapped under the first/second baffle?  A diagram or photograph?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

What evidence exists to show a flake of blood was trapped under the first/second baffle?  A diagram or photograph?

The dried blood flake which contained 17 of Sheila’s blood markers was found on the eighth baffle: you know that.

This repetition of yours is highlighting Jeremy Bamber’s guilt: the videos you hunt through on YouTube throw even more light on how impossible it was that Sheila killed everyone, then herself.

You’ve posted a YouTube video of a man cleaning his silencer, and in doing so, you’ve thrown more evidence to show Jeremy Bamber removed that silencer after killing Sheila. He also removed the barrel protector and replaced it after slaughtering his family.

You see, after removing a silencer you then have to screw the protector back onto the rifle’s barrel. And the rifle found laying on Sheila’s lap had the protector on its barrel.

That means:

Sheila would’ve had to have shot herself in her neck the one time, with the silencer attached

That shot didn’t kill her, though. So, according to your imagination instead of her unscrewing the silencer and tossing it on the floor, then shooting herself yet again in the neck, she decided to stumble downstairs pouring with blood, half paralysed, dazed, dizzy, shocked, and psychotic.

Almost near collapse due to loss of blood — yet miraculously not one drop of blood fell down onto her nightdress, body, legs, feet, carpet — she went to the kitchen and gave the silencer a rinse under the tap and meticulously made sure no blood was left in the sink; she then walked across Nevill’s blood, sugar and glass; went to the cupboard, bent down without any blood dripping from her neck, throat, nose or mouth, placed the silencer in a box at the very back of the cupboard, and closed the box.

She THEN, in her psychotic state, decided to find the barrel protector she’d removed, managed to find it amongst all the mess and upheaval, but still in her frenzy as she struggled to breathe due to the pressure of blood ballooning in her neck and throat,  she caught sight of it, screwed it back on, and walked upstairs without leaving a single footprint...

She then walked into the master bedroom, avoided stepping on June’s blood, laid down at an angle, pressed her bloodied handprint inside the Bible, closed it, opened it again — and then shot herself a second time.

Besides all the obvious, you tell everyone WHY Sheila not only removed the silencer and put it in the cupboard  — for NO reason whatsoever — and THEN, still in her psychotic state decided to hunt for that small barrel protector which must have been uppermost in her mind (wouldn’t it yours after having blown your two sons brains out; your father’s and your mother’s), and then screw that terribly important protector back on the barrel?

What would have made that barrel protector more important to her than anything else?

[Myster]

The dried blood flake which contained 17 of Sheila’s blood markers was found on the eighth baffle: you know that.

This repetition of yours is highlighting Jeremy Bamber’s guilt: the videos you hunt through on YouTube throw even more light on how impossible it was that Sheila killed everyone, then herself.

You’ve posted a YouTube video of a man cleaning his silencer, and in doing so, you’ve thrown more evidence to show Jeremy Bamber removed that silencer after killing Sheila. He also removed the barrel protector and replaced it after slaughtering his family.

You see, after removing a silencer you then have to screw the protector back onto the rifle’s barrel. And the rifle found laying on Sheila’s lap had the protector on its barrel.

That means:

Sheila would’ve had to have shot herself in her neck the one time, with the silencer attached

That shot didn’t kill her, though. So, according to your imagination instead of her unscrewing the silencer and tossing it on the floor, then shooting herself yet again in the neck, she decided to stumble downstairs pouring with blood, half paralysed, dazed, dizzy, shocked, and psychotic.

Almost near collapse due to loss of blood — yet miraculously not one drop of blood fell down onto her nightdress, body, legs, feet, carpet — she went to the kitchen and gave the silencer a rinse under the tap and meticulously made sure no blood was left in the sink; she then walked across Nevill’s blood, sugar and glass; went to the cupboard, bent down without any blood dripping from her neck, throat, nose or mouth, placed the silencer in a box at the very back of the cupboard, and closed the box.

She THEN, in her psychotic state, decided to find the barrel protector she’d removed, managed to find it amongst all the mess and upheaval, but still in her frenzy as she struggled to breathe due to the pressure of blood ballooning in her neck and throat,  she caught sight of it, screwed it back on, and walked upstairs without leaving a single footprint...

She then walked into the master bedroom, avoided stepping on June’s blood, laid down at an angle, pressed her bloodied handprint inside the Bible, closed it, opened it again — and then shot herself a second time.

Besides all the obvious, you tell everyone WHY Sheila not only removed the silencer and put it in the cupboard  — for NO reason whatsoever — and THEN, still in her psychotic state decided to hunt for that small barrel protector which must have been uppermost in her mind (wouldn’t it yours after having blown your two sons brains out; your father’s and your mother’s), and then screw that terribly important protector back on the barrel?

What would have made that barrel protector more important to her than anything else?

There was no thread protector on the end of the rifle when it was found, as is obvious in the crime scene photo...

[G-Unit]

Snip/

The dried blood flake which contained 17 of Sheila’s blood markers was found on the eighth baffle: you know that.

Mr Hayward found a flake of blood under the first or second baffle plate. He mentioned no markers as he tested the flake for blood groups, not for DNA markers. When DNA tests were carried out 14-15 years later the flake of blood no longer existed, Haywards tests destroyed it.

[Vertigo Swirl]

No you're not correct.

At the time of JB's trial DNA testing was unavailable.  All that was available was testing by way of blood serology which produces blood groupings.  Most will be familiar with the ABO groups.  In addition to this it was possible to identify enzymes and proteins but these are not statistically individuallising being shared by 8% of the white British population.  Eg given JB's relatives found and handled the silencer they were asked to provide samples and it was found that JB/SC's adoptive uncle shared the same blood groups as SC.

With the advent of DNA the silencer was reexamined.  There was no visible blood, we are told it was all swabbed away for the initial serology testing, hence it was analysed by way of LCN DNA testing.  The CCRC referred the case to the CoA as at this stage it was thought SC's DNA was not in the silencer but June's was along with an unidentified male.  This fitted the defence case at trial that SC used the silencer throughout the shootings and removed before shooting herself with the blood flake representing an 'intimate mix' of NB's and June's blood.

However when all the scientists for the defence and prosecution got together at appeal the appeal judges concluded the following:

497. We, therefore, consider the matter on the basis that the conclusions to be drawn from the DNA evidence are:

i) June Bamber's DNA was in the sound moderator at the time of the DNA examination;

ii) Sheila Caffell's DNA may have been in the sound moderator but it was not possible to conclude one way or the other whether it was; and

iii) there was evidence of DNA from at least one male.

You will no doubt recall from the MM case that LCN DNA tests works off very small invisible to the naked eye cellular samples where it isn't possible to identify the source and all the issues with contamination.

In this case at trial it is known jurors unassembled the silencer and handled it alongside other blood stained exhibits and it was thought June's DNA may have been in the silencer from contamination as opposed to the shootings.

Sources: Dr Lincoln's report and Bamber v Regina.

What items containing June’s blood were physically handled by the jurors?  When was this blood flake examined?  Pre or post trial?