Dis SC Suffer An Attachment Disorder?

[Vertigo Swirl]

JB's conviction will never be quashed unless the blood/silencer is undermined in a very compelling unequivocal way.  This will then allow JB to add numerous other points which as a stand alone or even collectively would not be enough for a referral to CoA. One such point will be that SC's early start in life ie numerous caregivers and June's severe depression brought on by her decision to adopt put SC at risk of suffering an attachment disorder with a propensity towards filicide, suicide and violence as per all the info I've uploaded.

If the blood/silencer evidence is undermined in a very compelling unequivocal way there will be no need to over-egg the pudding with theories about what disorder Sheila may or may not have been suffering from, something which can never be proved.

Which one was Sheila in your view btw, and supply the evidence?

Children who have attachment issues can develop two possible types of disorders: Reactive Attachment Disorder and Disinhibited Social Engagement Disorder.

Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD)

Children with RAD are less likely to interact with other people because of negative experiences with adults in their early years. They have difficulty calming down when stressed and do not look for comfort from their caregivers when they are upset. These children may seem to have little to no emotions when interacting with others. They may appear unhappy, irritable, sad, or scared while having normal activities with their caretaker. The diagnosis of RAD is made if symptoms become chronic.

Disinhibited Social Engagement Disorder (DSED)

Children with DSED do not appear fearful when meeting someone for the first time. They may be overly friendly, walk up to strangers to talk or even hug them. Younger children may allow strangers to pick them up, feed them, or give them toys to play with. When these children are put in a stranger situation, they do not check with their parents or caregivers, and will often go with someone they do not know.

[Holly Goodhead]

If the blood/silencer evidence is undermined in a very compelling unequivocal way there will be no need to over-egg the pudding with theories about what disorder Sheila may or may not have been suffering from, something which can never be proved.

Which one was Sheila in your view btw, and supply the evidence?

Children who have attachment issues can develop two possible types of disorders: Reactive Attachment Disorder and Disinhibited Social Engagement Disorder.

Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD)

Children with RAD are less likely to interact with other people because of negative experiences with adults in their early years. They have difficulty calming down when stressed and do not look for comfort from their caregivers when they are upset. These children may seem to have little to no emotions when interacting with others. They may appear unhappy, irritable, sad, or scared while having normal activities with their caretaker. The diagnosis of RAD is made if symptoms become chronic.

Disinhibited Social Engagement Disorder (DSED)

Children with DSED do not appear fearful when meeting someone for the first time. They may be overly friendly, walk up to strangers to talk or even hug them. Younger children may allow strangers to pick them up, feed them, or give them toys to play with. When these children are put in a stranger situation, they do not check with their parents or caregivers, and will often go with someone they do not know.

It's not a case of over egging the pudding but demolishing the prosecution case. 

I believe there are 4 attachment stykes:

Secure - autonomous
Avoidant - dismissing
Anxious - preoccupied; and
Disorganised - unresolved

I believe SC suffered the last for the reasons I've given.

https://www.evergreenpsychotherapycenter.com/styles-adult-attachment/

https://www.evergreenpsychotherapycenter.com/about/

[Holly Goodhead]

If anyone is interested they can take an online test to check out their own adult attachment style.

[Vertigo Swirl]

That being the case is there any evidence of Sheila exhibiting any of these attributes as a parent?

Our Maltreatment Pathway Model (see diagram) and the Assessment of Disorganised Attachment and Maltreatment (Adam) Project is already helping professionals feel more confident when assessing why it is that some parents abuse their children. The model identifies three key predictors of maltreatment signalled by parental behaviour, alongside one child-related indicator of maltreatment, namely disorganised attachment.


The three key predictors of maltreatment from the parents’ behaviour are:

● Unresolved loss and trauma (see Madigan et al, 2006). This refers to significantly repressed or denied interpersonal losses which re-emerge under conditions reminding a parent of their own vulnerability. Caring for infants and toddlers is one such condition. Unresolved loss and trauma may be accompanied by dissociative experiences such as “blanking out”; often a person will also experience symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder.

● Disconnected and extremely insensitive parenting (Out et al, 2009). A consequence of unresolved loss and trauma is that parenting includes sudden changes in behaviour which are neither accompanied by explanatory gestures or vocalisations, nor by signs of affection or playfulness. Such disconnected parenting also includes frightened or frightening behaviour and disruptive emotional communication. Extremely insensitive parenting denotes caregiving that is excessively withdrawn and neglectful or, conversely, over-intrusive and aggressive, typically involving rough handling and hostile language (Lyons-Ruth and Jacobvitz, 2008).

● Low parental mentalisation and reflective function (see Allen et al, 2008; Fonagy and Target, 2005). This is a significantly reduced ability to appreciate that others have different intentions and feelings from one’s own. An example of low reflective function is the mother who didn’t see why, on a cold morning, she needed to put her one-year old son’s shoes and socks on because “my feet are like toast”. Parents with low reflective function often speak about their babies ­”hating them”. Such misattributions are found among parents who maltreat their children (Allen et al, 2008; Crittenden, 2008; Slade, 2008).

[Vertigo Swirl]

If anyone is interested they can take an online test to check out their own adult attachment style.

I can already predict which disorder I have. Dismissive.  Where’s the link?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

It is known SC experienced a number of primary caregivers during the first 2/3 years of her life:

Birth - 2 weeks - birth mother

2 weeks - 3 months - children's home

3 months - 2 years - June who, according to Dr Ferguson, became severely depressed due to her decision to adopt which required in-patient psychiatric care and electroconvulsive treatment.

2 years - until June returned - uknown

June"s return - thereafter - Nanny

Not only did SC experience a number of primary caregivers during the first 2 years of her life but the quality of care provided by June was unlikely to have met the "Good enough mother" criteria postulated by Donald Winnicott due to her severe depression brought on by her decision to adopt.

How do you know June’s depression was brought on by her decision to adopt?

People all over the world can suffer clinical depression , and it’s usually to do with brain chemistry.

You’re making assumptions.

Please stick to FACTS and TRUTHS, rather than assumptions...

[ISpyWithMyEye]

It is known SC experienced a number of primary caregivers during the first 2/3 years of her life:

Birth - 2 weeks - birth mother

2 weeks - 3 months - children's home

3 months - 2 years - June who, according to Dr Ferguson, became severely depressed due to her decision to adopt which required in-patient psychiatric care and electroconvulsive treatment.

2 years - until June returned - uknown

June"s return - thereafter - Nanny

Not only did SC experience a number of primary caregivers during the first 2 years of her life but the quality of care provided by June was unlikely to have met the "Good enough mother" criteria postulated by Donald Winnicott due to her severe depression brought on by her decision to adopt.

So how about fathers who tragically lose their wives when they’re giving birth, or sometimes die within weeks ?

There’s many men who’ve been left in that heartbreaking situation, and their children don’t grow up to become Schizophrenics or Psychopaths....

[APRIL]

How do you know June’s depression was brought on by her decision to adopt?

People all over the world can suffer clinical depression , and it’s usually to do with brain chemistry.

You’re making assumptions.

Please stick to FACTS and TRUTHS, rather than assumptions...

Spy, those are not Holly's words. They're the words used by Dr Ferguson. They're words I've questioned, and whilst I hasten to add I'm neither psychiatrist nor psychologist, I've done enough work with depressed people to question that June suffered clinical depression. I think it was more about life circumstances. Who of us wouldn't be depressed, when desperate to conceive, month after month, we failed? Who of us wouldn't have visualized the feel of our own baby in our arms. There would come a grieving process, a time to adjust, followed by relief at then knowledge that a baby would be possible, albeit, by adoption, followed by excitement. Then comes the day 'our' baby is placed in our arms. A VITALLY important moment. We are, quite naturally, nervous. All manner of questions going through our minds. What happens next may set the tone of our relationship, and here, I have to become personal. I'd been placed, sleeping, into my new mother's arms. At 11 weeks, I'd have been aware that they were not my 'real' mother's. I opened my eyes, and to quote my adoptive mother "You dropped your lip" It may have been that moment in which our future relationship was sealed. She never bonded with me. All my life she maintained that I'd never liked her. Adoptive motherhood can be fragile. If June was experiencing something similar, her visions of perfect motherhood would have gone out the window. A second depression was inevitable NOT, though, because "of her decision to adopt".

[G-Unit]

Spy, those are not Holly's words. They're the words used by Dr Ferguson. They're words I've questioned, and whilst I hasten to add I'm neither psychiatrist nor psychologist, I've done enough work with depressed people to question that June suffered clinical depression. I think it was more about life circumstances. Who of us wouldn't be depressed, when desperate to conceive, month after month, we failed? Who of us wouldn't have visualized the feel of our own baby in our arms. There would come a grieving process, a time to adjust, followed by relief at then knowledge that a baby would be possible, albeit, by adoption, followed by excitement. Then comes the day 'our' baby is placed in our arms. A VITALLY important moment. We are, quite naturally, nervous. All manner of questions going through our minds. What happens next may set the tone of our relationship, and here, I have to become personal. I'd been placed, sleeping, into my new mother's arms. At 11 weeks, I'd have been aware that they were not my 'real' mother's. I opened my eyes, and to quote my adoptive mother "You dropped your lip" It may have been that moment in which our future relationship was sealed. She never bonded with me. All my life she maintained that I'd never liked her. Adoptive motherhood can be fragile. If June was experiencing something similar, her visions of perfect motherhood would have gone out the window. A second depression was inevitable NOT, though, because "of her decision to adopt".

That's so sad that a perfectly normal reaction by a baby to a strange face can affect someone so powerfully. I think (and hope) adoptive parents are better prepared these days and understand that there will be a period of adjustment.

[APRIL]

That's so sad that a perfectly normal reaction by a baby to a strange face can affect someone so powerfully. I think (and hope) adoptive parents are better prepared these days and understand that there will be a period of adjustment.

From this safe remove and with the benefit of maturity, I CAN see that it was incredibly sad for her. She couldn't have been unique. It MAY have been June's experience.

[puglove]

Spy, those are not Holly's words. They're the words used by Dr Ferguson. They're words I've questioned, and whilst I hasten to add I'm neither psychiatrist nor psychologist, I've done enough work with depressed people to question that June suffered clinical depression. I think it was more about life circumstances. Who of us wouldn't be depressed, when desperate to conceive, month after month, we failed? Who of us wouldn't have visualized the feel of our own baby in our arms. There would come a grieving process, a time to adjust, followed by relief at then knowledge that a baby would be possible, albeit, by adoption, followed by excitement. Then comes the day 'our' baby is placed in our arms. A VITALLY important moment. We are, quite naturally, nervous. All manner of questions going through our minds. What happens next may set the tone of our relationship, and here, I have to become personal. I'd been placed, sleeping, into my new mother's arms. At 11 weeks, I'd have been aware that they were not my 'real' mother's. I opened my eyes, and to quote my adoptive mother "You dropped your lip" It may have been that moment in which our future relationship was sealed. She never bonded with me. All my life she maintained that I'd never liked her. Adoptive motherhood can be fragile. If June was experiencing something similar, her visions of perfect motherhood would have gone out the window. A second depression was inevitable NOT, though, because "of her decision to adopt".

Your adoptive mother's heart should have broken for you, not for herself.

Some people should never be parents.

[APRIL]

Your adoptive mother's heart should have broken for you, not for herself.

Some people should never be parents.

Thank-you SO much for that, puglove xx

Sadly, I still meet adoptive parents whose relationship with their children is less than happy. They usually talk about what they've done for/given/spent on these children, but their expectations of them are clearly unreasonable for the child. The parent then sees it as rejection of them and their values "after all we've done for them".

[G-Unit]

Thank-you SO much for that, puglove xx

Sadly, I still meet adoptive parents whose relationship with their children is less than happy. They usually talk about what they've done for/given/spent on these children, but their expectations of them are clearly unreasonable for the child. The parent then sees it as rejection of them and their values "after all we've done for them".

Any parent who demands gratitude from their child is likely to be disappointed imo. It's something the child will offer freely if a parent has done a good job.

[Holly Goodhead]

Spy, those are not Holly's words. They're the words used by Dr Ferguson. They're words I've questioned, and whilst I hasten to add I'm neither psychiatrist nor psychologist, I've done enough work with depressed people to question that June suffered clinical depression. I think it was more about life circumstances. Who of us wouldn't be depressed, when desperate to conceive, month after month, we failed? Who of us wouldn't have visualized the feel of our own baby in our arms. There would come a grieving process, a time to adjust, followed by relief at then knowledge that a baby would be possible, albeit, by adoption, followed by excitement. Then comes the day 'our' baby is placed in our arms. A VITALLY important moment. We are, quite naturally, nervous. All manner of questions going through our minds. What happens next may set the tone of our relationship, and here, I have to become personal. I'd been placed, sleeping, into my new mother's arms. At 11 weeks, I'd have been aware that they were not my 'real' mother's. I opened my eyes, and to quote my adoptive mother "You dropped your lip" It may have been that moment in which our future relationship was sealed. She never bonded with me. All my life she maintained that I'd never liked her. Adoptive motherhood can be fragile. If June was experiencing something similar, her visions of perfect motherhood would have gone out the window. A second depression was inevitable NOT, though, because "of her decision to adopt".

Your explanation chimes with Allan Schore's

https://youtu.be/iTZQhCMy3vU

I think when June found herself unable to conceive and found herself adopting she suffered unresolved trauma and grief which chimes with David Brodzinsky's views:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11248.msg575554#msg575554

[Caroline]

Spy, those are not Holly's words. They're the words used by Dr Ferguson. They're words I've questioned, and whilst I hasten to add I'm neither psychiatrist nor psychologist, I've done enough work with depressed people to question that June suffered clinical depression. I think it was more about life circumstances. Who of us wouldn't be depressed, when desperate to conceive, month after month, we failed? Who of us wouldn't have visualized the feel of our own baby in our arms. There would come a grieving process, a time to adjust, followed by relief at then knowledge that a baby would be possible, albeit, by adoption, followed by excitement. Then comes the day 'our' baby is placed in our arms. A VITALLY important moment. We are, quite naturally, nervous. All manner of questions going through our minds. What happens next may set the tone of our relationship, and here, I have to become personal. I'd been placed, sleeping, into my new mother's arms. At 11 weeks, I'd have been aware that they were not my 'real' mother's. I opened my eyes, and to quote my adoptive mother "You dropped your lip" It may have been that moment in which our future relationship was sealed. She never bonded with me. All my life she maintained that I'd never liked her. Adoptive motherhood can be fragile. If June was experiencing something similar, her visions of perfect motherhood would have gone out the window. A second depression was inevitable NOT, though, because "of her decision to adopt".

Excellent post April but the same is also true for Jeremy.