Did Jeremy Bamber Have An Affair With Charles Marsden?

[Nicholas]

I think you mean trick 

 

[Holly Goodhead]

Please stop Holly!

Start a new thread or PM her

The mods decide what is and isn't on/off topic. 

[APRIL]

I think you mean trick 

Oooh! Someone posting Freudians? Sherks! I missed it

[Nicholas]

Oooh! Someone posting Freudians? Sherks! I missed it

And so it seems did Holly

[Nicholas]

Oooh! Someone posting Freudians? Sherks! I missed it

I wrote and posted ‘tick’ instead of ‘trick’

I went back and edited my mistake and must have done so before Holly quoted my post 

[Nicholas]

‘She told detectives in 1985 that she had suddenly found herself in Jeremy’s bedroom with him, ‘on top of me having intercourse’.
The following day, the girl wondered whether she had been drugged. Feeling ‘shocked, angry and abused’ after hearing that Jeremy had told Julie about the episode, she called at the cottage while Jeremy was working.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=charles+marsden+essex&source=bl&ots=jQISI3Diw_&sig=ACfU3U1i336DTUwUTlMThBe2M3Xntg_NJA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil_JK6psXpAhW-QhUIHRPOAwkQ6AEwBHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=charles%20marsden%20essex&f=false

‘after hearing that Jeremy had told Julie about the episode’

How did Sarah hear that Bamber had told Julie about that night?

And how long after the ‘episode’ was it before she went to the cottage, when Bamber was at work, to speak with Julie?

[Caroline]

The mods decide what is and isn't on/off topic.

Bit like Boris deciding Dominic Cummings didn't flout the lockdown rules (bringing his nasty, dirty germs to our wonderful county!). We all know he did the same as we know when something is off topic. See what I did there? 

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I meant as opposed to today when a woman who's been drinking is assumed to be unable to make decisions. [See the Ched Evans case]

If you can speculate about Bamber's motives I can speculate about the girl's motives. She wouldn't be the first to sleep with someone else's boyfriend or the first to realise that she was just a one-night stand.

I think a reasonable number of women found him attractive judging by how many slept with him.

I haven’t seen the Ched Evans case — and no two cases are the same

I don’t know which era you’re in, Gunit, but it has ALWAYS been the case that if a girl is so intoxicated she can barely stand or talk, then any man who takes advantage of her when she’s disinhibited and unable to think, know, feel, be aware that she’s having sex, and that man has sex with her it is rape. It’s always been rape, in just the way if a girl was anaesthetised and a doctor had sex with her, it would be rape.

Your disgraceful untrue comment that Sarah had “motives” when she’d probably been drugged is disgusting — and weird.

You might find the monster attractive, but he couldn’t have been a Don Juan, nor did he look like a movie star. He frequented Stringfellows where some REALLY beautiful girls used to go, including top models, celebrities, sports stars, footballers, the occasional film star, some classy girls, some high class prostitutes picking up the Arabs who went there, some from wealthy families who liked to flash their brightly coloured convertibles, designer clothes, drink Champagne all night long...a big mix of all types/classes, but usually all very, very attractive, all slim, fashionable...that’s how it was

How is it that he got Julie, who was indeed very pretty, but she wasn’t particularly bright and she didn’t have any money; he got Sue Ford who was older with children; Angi, who was OK but quite hard-faced, and various one-night stands who obviously weren’t picky. How is it he never pulled a top model, a celebrity, a really gorgeous girl from a rich family? I saw scores of beautiful girls there, including a few celebrities, so why wasn’t he able to pull one of them if he was as good-looking as you seem to think? He certainly wasn’t slow in coming forward, so what was it about him that made them reject him? Because you can bet your life he tried! He’d have loved nothing more than to walk out of there with a stunningly beautiful girl on his arm, especially one who came from money and possibly had her own Porsche...

Maybe he looked less attractive in real life. Or maybe his “cold, dead eyes” turned them off? Or his arrogance? Lies? Bragging? Or maybe he had BO? Bad breath? Maybe they thought he was gay? Julie said all her friends thought he was gay. Whatever it was he didn’t have any success in pulling a woman when he went to Stringfellows...so what did he go there for if it wasn’t to try and pull a stunner...one with money or celebrity? Eh?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

There was talk, admittedly from JB, of NB/June 'encouraging' SC and the twins to move back to Essex with the option of moving into JB's cottage.  (Yes I know another reason for him to murder them).  So I'm guessing the cottage was a reasonable size to accommodate a small family.

It looks tiny

And it only had two bedrooms

That may have been OK in the short term, but Sheila would’ve needed a bigger place eventually

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Assuming CM drove to JB's and the plan was to go to the pub he may have arranged to stay the night.

1983 evidential breath testing was implemented and if I remember rightly there was a lot of drink/driving media coverage at the time.  Prior to this people took their chances with little risk of being caught.

So why did Charles drive home after getting out of Jeremy’s bed in the early hours of the morning?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Ahem I'm not AA.  Although judging by her avatar we do look similar and both obviously mid 70's!

In that case, Holly, when you stand on the steps of the court as Jeremy Bamber hobbles out (0/trillion chance but you never know), make sure you’ve got your walking stick with you so you can beat him off. He has a penchant for older women...

[ISpyWithMyEye]

You’re asking the wrong person Nicholas.  It’s CAL who should have been asking the questions before she wrote about it and if the Police saw through Jeremy they would have perused this further, unless they we quite incompetent.

You cannot have it both ways.

The couple were doing what loads couples do Each weekend.  The actions of two very drunk and people who could have been smoking as well.  Both completely off their faces however Sarah seems somewhat ashamed by her actions and has seemingly tried to put the blame on Jeremy, just like many others.

But Ag, had Sarah felt ashamed she wouldn’t have told people, especially Julie

Julie said Sarah was in a “terrible state”; crying, sobbing etc...

[ISpyWithMyEye]

My definition of promiscuous is someone who is constantly on the lookout for no strings attached sex.

It is known JB had relationships with SF and JM.  I believe there was a short relationship with a woman called Ann?  The one night stand with LR.  The holiday fling with the Swiss woman.  Last but not least AG. 

Did he have sex with Sarah or was this just a drunken fumble?

Where's the evidence he had sexual relationships with males?  Of course it was easy for a rumour to take hold about a Jeff in NZ as it wasn't easy to corroborate and Afaik never has been.

He may have used condoms.

But that’s precisely what he was doing — looking forward sex when Julie was in Lewisham

It’s well-recorded

If he did use condoms they must have been too big for him and fell off, because he developed sores on his penis...not sure what he picked up, but it was obviously some kind of venereal disease.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Excerpts from Wilkes book re CM:

Para 1

"A friend of Jeremy, Charles Mardsen, called round, and someone suggested going out for dinner.  Once again, the venue was the Caribbean Cottage at Burnham, although for some reason the party didn't eat.  They just drunk"

Para 2

"The detectives were intrigued by the tale told by another of Jeremy Bamber's friends, the sales manager for a computer firm, called Charles Marsden.  Marsden was also the boyfriend of Liz Rimmington.  He described how he'd become part of Jeremy's set at the Frog and Beans wine bar in Colchester.  He explained that in a crowd that included women, Jeremy would splash out with money to the extent that he could be called 'flash'.  'He was impressed by money,' Marsden added.  'He was impressed by people who spend a lot and the things that money could buy, such as expensive cars.'  Although he worked for a modest wage on his father's farm, Jeremy had boasted that one day he would be a wealthy man.  Marsden took this to mean that one day Jeremy expected to inherit his parents' money.

Para 3

In December 1984, Jeremy had announced that his entire family were getting together to celebrate Christimas.  This was unusual.  During a drinking session at a wine bar in Maldon, Jeremy had confided to Charles Marsden that if the farmhouse were to burn down over Christmas, everything would be his.  'I thought at the time that this was a strange thing to say,' Marsden reported, 'but didn't particularly take any notice.'

Para 4

At teatime on the day following the White House Farm massacre, Jeremy Bamber had appeared at Charles Marsden's office in Colchester.  Marsden knew nothing of what had happened, and Jeremy poured out the story that Marsden later read in the newspapers.  The two men drove to a little pub outside Colchester and talked for about half an hour.  'I thought it strange that Jeremy had come to see me with this news,' Marsden admitted, 'but I thought he was probably in shock.'  What struck Charles Marsden most forcibly was that in speaking of Sheila - the sister he said had murdered his entire family and then shot herself - Jeremy showed neither emotion nor anger towards her.

Para 5

Marsden said that he had visited Jeremy at his cottage the previous Thursday night.  Brett Collins had cooked them a chicken dinner and the three had then repaired to the Caribbean Cottage at Burnham for drinks.  Jeremy had announced that he and Julie had split up the previous weekend.  While he didn't give a specific reason, Marsden had the impression that Julie had disliked Brett Collins.  In any case, Jeremy added, he now had a new girlfriend, Virginia Greaves, who used to go out with Mike Deckers of the Frog and Beans.  Jeremy also told Charles Marsden that he and Brett were going to sell Bourtree Cottage and move to Sheila's flat in Maida Vale.  Virginia would move in too, Jeremy added.

Para 6

The detectives seemed anxious to probe Jeremy Bamber's sexual habits and preferences.  They learned from Charles Marsden that Jeremy possessed an animal magnetism for women.  Marsden said that while he knew of only two serious girlfriends, Suzette Ford and Julie Mugford, Jeremy had had many one-night stands.  He enjoyed going to clubs, such as Stringfellows in London, pulling women.  Marsden recalled an evening before the murders when he and Jeremy had gone drinking at Jeremy's local, the Chequers at Goldhangers.  They had picked up a couple of girls, one of whom had agreed to return with them to Jeremy's cottage.  Marsden, very drunk, had crashed out in Jeremy's bed.  Some time later, he'd been awoken by movement in the bed.  Lying there half asleep, Marsden realised that Jeremy had brought the girl upstairs and that the couple were having sex.  The idea of three-in-a bed sex excited the detectives' curiosity still further.  But Charles Marsden was at pains to insist that he hadn't taken part in the sex session.  And when Jeremy returned from walking the girl home, Marsden himself had got up and driven home.

Para 7

Later, at Bourtree Cottage , he'd spread the money all over the floor to look at it, before stashing it all in his little Chinese trick box and calling Charles and Liz to arrange an expensive night out.  The following evening the foursome dined out at Fifi's in Colchester and drank pink and white champagne all evening.  The bill came to £125.

Para 8

Stan Jones leafed through a sheaf of typewritten papers on the table in front of him.  'So,' he said, 'you know Charles Marsden?'  Jeremy said he did.  'He and I were very close a few years ago, and not so close now as I don't really see him that often.'  The detective continued to look through his papers.  'Do you remember me yesterday putting to you that Julie had said that you intended to drug the family and burn the farm down when they were all in it ?  Bamber said he remembered and that Julie was telling lies.  'You see' said Stan Jones, running a finger down one of the statements, 'Charles Marsden also says the same thing.  He says that around Christmas time last year, when all the family, your parents, Sheila and twins were there, you told him that if you burned the house down with all them in it, you'd get everything.  Is he telling lies as well?  Jeremy said he didn't remember discussing the matter with Marsden, and that he concluded that his friend was lying.  Stan Jones put the statement down on the table.  Julie's telling lies.' he said, recapping 'and he is telling lies.  For what reason? 'No comment.'

Para 9

Charles Marsden had also called to say that he'd been interviewed by detectives no fewer than three times.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See the subtle anomalies at paras 3 and 8 from book excerpt in marked lines.  CM says "...if the farmhouse were to burn down..."  Stan Jones says "...you told him that if you burned the house down with all them in it

There’s no anomalies there at all. None.

DS Jones said asked the same question

[ISpyWithMyEye]

It would be interesting to know what she was like before she met Jeremy.

Colin said Julie was “good fun, good company, slightly mischievous — and a little naive”

I need to check, but basically she was a nice, friendly girl who was also popular.