What would convince that Jeremy was guilty of 5 murders?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I still can't quite get my head around the whole phone fiasco.  None of it makes any real sense and I think it was one of the things which sewed the first seeds of suspicion of Bamber for the police.  It just didn't add up.

Jeremy Bamber isn’t bright — he’s demonstrated that spectacularly throughout.

I believe there one of two reasons he called the police; possibly a combination

He may have originally intended not to call the police until he arrived at WHF for work in the morning, but when his plan went awry and he didn’t shoot Nevill dead in bed, then Nevill made it downstairs where Jeremy had to kill him, he had no option but to unplug the bedroom phone and put it in the kitchen (hiding the kitchen one amongst the magazines) so police would assume Nevill had rushed downstairs to phone Jeremy. The police would have wondered why Nevill hadn’t called 999 from the bedroom phone when he hadn’t even been shot in the bedroom.

He had time to think as he was clearing up and showering in his wetsuit at WHF, and decided to dial Goldhanger hoping BT would be able to trace the call was made. He then cut it off when his answerphone “picked the call up”. Then left the receiver off the hook.

Once home he spent a good hour or so getting his story right, then steeled himself to phone the local police pretending Nevill had called him at home.

He may have thought that gave him even more of an alibi, especially saying Sheila had gone berserk.

But his reluctance to phone the police sooner suggests he was wondering if it was a good idea or not. It suggests he was scared and steeling himself to call them and sound convincingly worried.

There was a reason he didn’t call them sooner, that’s an absolute.

He could have been weighing it all up. Thinking “should I just turn up in the morning like normal”, or “I’ll call the police, sound as worried as possible, tell them Dad said Sheila’s gone nuts — that could be better!”

So that’s what he did.

And that’s how he came unstuck.

Remember, he called Julie FIRST. He didn’t sound worried, concerned...in fact, sounded upbeat. Told her he loved her.

Then 15 minutes later put on a worried sounding voice and called the police.

Of course, he may have planned to call the police in the early hours anyway, but I feel the fact Nevill made it downstairs put the idea into Jeremy’s head, and he probably thought it was a stroke of luck, being thick.

You can see by some of the implausible stories he comes out with that he can’t be intelligent

[Robittybob1]

Rob, the reason Jeremy wasn’t shocked was that he already knew they were dead!

He’d crept into WHF as cold as ice, with no feelings, and shot his whole family dead. He was capable of doing that. He did it with the same lack of emotion as shooting a tree for target practice.

I don’t understand your reasoning when you say he wasn’t shocked because “he’d worked out” the best thing Sheila could do for herself was to kill her children and herself?! How did he come to that conclusion?!

Energy if she had done that, which she didn’t, he’d still have been deeply shocked!

And how about his mum and dad?

Did he think to himself “Whoa! You went too far there, Sheila! You shouldn’t have shot Mum and Dad too. Bang out of order that is! I’ll leave this mess to the cops to get on with, I’m bloody starving. Gonna do myself a nice fry up with plenty of toast and a cuppa”

OK I quite like your challenges.  I have not worked it out yet, for in my theory someone finishes the job for Sheila, so how many of the others were finished off too.   I need to work out who did this and how did they know to come that very night.

Jeremy thinks Sheila was capable of doing it all herself, but I don't think so, but how does that other person come on the scene?

[Robittybob1]

"but how does that other person come on the scene?"

Is it as simple as a phone call?   

[APRIL]

Don't bother answering my posts.

Perhaps you could refrain from responding to them?

[Robittybob1]

Perhaps you could refrain from responding to them?

You seem to have a very closed attitude to this case.  I'm looking for some sort of new scenario that results in 5 deaths and still allows Jeremy to be innocent.  Can that ever be logically possible?

[APRIL]

Jeremy Bamber isn’t bright — he’s demonstrated that spectacularly throughout.

I believe there one of two reasons he called the police; possibly a combination

He may have originally intended not to call the police until he arrived at WHF for work in the morning, but when his plan went awry and he didn’t shoot Nevill dead in bed, then Nevill made it downstairs where Jeremy had to kill him, he had no option but to unplug the bedroom phone and put it in the kitchen (hiding the kitchen one amongst the magazines) so police would assume Nevill had rushed downstairs to phone Jeremy. The police would have wondered why Nevill hadn’t called 999 from the bedroom phone when he hadn’t even been shot in the bedroom.

He had time to think as he was clearing up and showering in his wetsuit at WHF, and decided to dial Goldhanger hoping BT would be able to trace the call was made. He then cut it off when his answerphone “picked the call up”. Then left the receiver off the hook.

Once home he spent a good hour or so getting his story right, then steeled himself to phone the local police pretending Nevill had called him at home.

He may have thought that gave him even more of an alibi, especially saying Sheila had gone berserk.

But his reluctance to phone the police sooner suggests he was wondering if it was a good idea or not. It suggests he was scared and steeling himself to call them and sound convincingly worried.

There was a reason he didn’t call them sooner, that’s an absolute.

He could have been weighing it all up. Thinking “should I just turn up in the morning like normal”, or “I’ll call the police, sound as worried as possible, tell them Dad said Sheila’s gone nuts — that could be better!”

So that’s what he did.

And that’s how he came unstuck.

Remember, he called Julie FIRST. He didn’t sound worried, concerned...in fact, sounded upbeat. Told her he loved her.

Then 15 minutes later put on a worried sounding voice and called the police.

Of course, he may have planned to call the police in the early hours anyway, but I feel the fact Nevill made it downstairs put the idea into Jeremy’s head, and he probably thought it was a stroke of luck, being thick.

You can see by some of the implausible stories he comes out with that he can’t be intelligent

Re his "just turning up in the morning". It was an option, but where would his alibi have been? "And where were you last night Mr Bamber? Can you tell us what you were doing?" Could he hell!!! He HAD to call the police, in reality, just to confirm he was at home.

[APRIL]

You seem to have a very closed attitude to this case.  I'm looking for some sort of new scenario that results in 5 deaths and still allows Jeremy to be innocent.  Can that ever be logically possible?

 

I imagine I've been following this case rather longer than have you -in fact, from within hours of it happening, certainly before the first reports in the papers- and from the first, I, like 'owwer Taff, look you" (said with Welsh accent!!) I was TOTALLY convinced of Sheila's culpability. The papers, like Taff, had taken Jeremy's word for what had happened and they were full of how this mentally ill, privately educated, top model from a privileged background, recently released from a psychiatric hospital, had been staying with her parents, and they, her twin sons, and she, were now all dead. It was perfectly obvious what had happened, wasn't it? Plain as the nose on ya face. THEN!!! a few days later, the papers say a silencer had been found. The police were a bit tightlipped about it but..........it certainly caused a wobble.

I excused/overlooked/made excuses for all the things I now don't, simply because I refused to believe an adopted child would murder the family who'd 'taken them in' and I couldn't think of anything bad enough to say of Julie. Not for a moment did I think he'd be convicted. I kept thinking they'd realize their mistake and let him go!!! I still believed in his innocence when I joined a forum -not this one- in 2011/12. The person there who carried the torch for his innocence told so many fabricated stories that it opened my eyes to other possibilities. D'ya know, that phone-call? It never sat right -I experienced one or two similar. I recognize fear and panic in a voice and take appropriate and immediate action- but it wasn't till I heard my own thoughts and eventually my own voice, that it became real.

Forgive me if I say I'm not entirely convinced that this case is one you're devoted to.It sometimes feels as if you amuse yourself by muddying the waters with ludicrous suggestions which you explain as a way of finding new evidence. I think, after 35 years, and the amount of time that's been spent on trying, any evidence that CAN be found, has been.

[Robittybob1]

I appreciate that.
I am going to look for new evidence.  The story has not yet been told.  But whether it will ever be discovered by me is another matter.

[APRIL]

I appreciate that.
I am going to look for new evidence.  The story has not yet been told.  But whether it will ever be discovered by me is another matter.

Which begs the question, are you convinced that he's innocent, or, do you think it would it be amusing/interesting to find something which could suggest he might be?

[Robittybob1]

Which begs the question, are you convinced that he's innocent, or, do you think it would it be amusing/interesting to find something which could suggest he might be?

He could be innocent or guilty IMO.  But 2 things so far suggested to me "innocence" but I'll wait till it is all in.

He didn't know the order of the killings.
He never claims the entire estate his.

[APRIL]

He could be innocent or guilty IMO.  But 2 things so far suggested to me "innocence" but I'll wait till it is all in.

He didn't know the order of the killings.
He never claims the entire estate his.

Perhaps I can ease your mind?

NOT knowing is very different from the CLAIM of not knowing. How could he possible admit to knowing?

He didn't need to. A) all of those who may have had a major claim were dead.  B) he'd had access to the Wills, previously.

[Caroline]

Don't bother answering my posts.

That's the position that I have taken!

[Vertigo Swirl]

That's the position that I have taken!

Wise.

[Caroline]

He could be innocent or guilty IMO.  But 2 things so far suggested to me "innocence" but I'll wait till it is all in.

He didn't know the order of the killings.
He never claims the entire estate his.

EXcellent deduction - you re right, he has to be guilty or innocent. Won't be long before you crack the case with such insight!

You're right again, he didn't state the order of the killings - surely he couldn't be so cunning that he would keep such information to himself because admitting it would mean he was the killer? Hmmmm.

Not sure what you last point says but I'm sure it's a corker! 

[Robittybob1]

EXcellent deduction - you re right, he has to be guilty or innocent. Won't be long before you crack the case with such insight!

You're right again, he didn't state the order of the killings - surely he couldn't be so cunning that he would keep such information to himself because admitting it would mean he was the killer? Hmmmm.

Not sure what you last point says but I'm sure it's a corker! 

To argue that Sheila did it, it is really amounting to say that Sheila was last to die.  So the Bamber argument does in a slight way put an order to the deaths.

Was that helpful to his supposed objective of gaining a fortune?  Or was Colin Caffell now a major shareholder as his kids would now be beneficiaries of the wills.