Author Topic: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB  (Read 357573 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #330 on: September 20, 2020, 08:12:48 PM »
He's a drifter, going off radar is not a crime nor unusual,he was not seen exiting 5a with Madeleine.

You are making assumptions. you would need to ask those around him if it was usual, if it had ever happened before....and thats exactly what HCW is doing imo

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #331 on: September 20, 2020, 08:14:20 PM »
Then explain to me in what way the closing down of OG would be good for the parents?

You would need to ask them...without that its your opinion. Certainly if Breukner is not convicted they can still have hope maddie is still alive

Offline barrier

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #332 on: September 20, 2020, 08:14:59 PM »
You are making assumptions. you would need to ask those around him if it was usual, if it had ever happened before....and thats exactly what HCW is doing imo

You're making assumptions that HCW has him nailed on.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #333 on: September 20, 2020, 08:18:59 PM »
You're making assumptions that HCW has him nailed on.

I'm making none...

It depends on how convincing a witness his ex girlrfriend is.......if she has said he told her......I have  aterrible job to do in Luz tomorrow....and you wont see me for a while. if he  said this on may2...thats an amazing coincidence.

If he did disappear.....and if there are other witnesses.....more circumstantial evidence....then that might convince the Judges. Remeber...its just their opinion

Offline G-Unit

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #334 on: September 20, 2020, 08:24:32 PM »
Bumped for Robbitybob

Here's something from the archiving dispatch that was said about Murat, but not about the McCanns;

It is nevertheless certain that through the collected evidence, said suspicions gradually emptied themselves, until the point where any connection of the arguido to the child's disappearance was set aside.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #335 on: September 20, 2020, 08:28:15 PM »
Here's something from the archiving dispatch that was said about Murat, but not about the McCanns;

It is nevertheless certain that through the collected evidence, said suspicions gradually emptied themselves, until the point where any connection of the arguido to the child's disappearance was set aside.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm


But they didnt say...all the indications used to make him an arguido were later not confirmed....i wonder why.

no wonder SY decided to reinterview him

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #336 on: September 20, 2020, 08:30:55 PM »
Here's something from the archiving dispatch that was said about Murat, but not about the McCanns;

It is nevertheless certain that through the collected evidence, said suspicions gradually emptied themselves, until the point where any connection of the arguido to the child's disappearance was set aside.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
does that mean he’s a little bit more cleared than the McCanns, but still not ruled out?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #337 on: September 20, 2020, 08:34:10 PM »
Here's something from the archiving dispatch that was said about Murat, but not about the McCanns;

It is nevertheless certain that through the collected evidence, said suspicions gradually emptied themselves, until the point where any connection of the arguido to the child's disappearance was set aside.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

this is from the archiving report too...


These dogs, which had already been used on multiple occasions by the Scotland Yard and by the FBI with positive results, are evidence collection means and do not serve as evidence

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #338 on: September 20, 2020, 08:37:30 PM »
then theres this..

, that is to say that cellular material was collected, which was nevertheless not identified as belonging to a specific person, and it was not even possible to establish said material's quality (namely if it could be blood or another type of bodily fluid).

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #339 on: September 20, 2020, 08:38:13 PM »
not true as I well know....I know you are talking absolute codswallop
its very true....

To this can be added that, in reality, none of the indications that led to their constitution as arguidos was later confirmed or consolidated.

Its your post that isnt true....and not  a mention of an imo
So does that mean "nothing was confirmed".   So that to me isn't really saying the initial indications were wrong, just that they weren't confirmed.  Why didn't they just say their initial suspicions were wrong.  They can't because a judge is involved.

Not confirmed is not the opposite of confirmed.

Antonyms for confirm
confuse.
contradict.
deny.
disallow.
disapprove.
discredit.
disprove.
invalidate.

If none of them were confirmed how many of them were disproved, or invalidated?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 08:45:03 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #340 on: September 20, 2020, 08:44:15 PM »
So does that mean "nothing was confirmed".   So that to me isn't really saying the initial indications were wrong, just that they weren't confirmed.  Why didn't they just say their initial suspicions were wrong.  They can't because a judge is involved.

Not confirmed is not the opposite of confirmed.

Antonyms for confirm
confuse.
contradict.
deny.
disallow.
disapprove.
discredit.
disprove.
invalidate.

I think we all know what not confirmed means but .......

is this  a bit clearer for you rob..




b) The archiving of the Process concerning Arguidos Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #341 on: September 20, 2020, 08:51:05 PM »
I think we all know what not confirmed means but .......

is this  a bit clearer for you rob..




b) The archiving of the Process concerning Arguidos Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code.
Had you used "not confirmed" from the beginning I might have not questioned your use of the word "confirmed".
How much is "confirmed" when "nothing was confirmed"?
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #342 on: September 20, 2020, 09:02:00 PM »
Had you used "not confirmed" from the beginning I might have not questioned your use of the word "confirmed".
How much is "confirmed" when "nothing was confirmed"?

Your posts dont seem to make much sense....I quoted the archiving report from memory...and I was just about spot on....contact those who wrote it if you dont like it.

you can question all you like but imo your post is not making a lot of sense

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #343 on: September 20, 2020, 09:29:32 PM »
From the report:
"In a final synthesis, based on facts, it seems to us that the following can be asserted:

- On the 3rd of May 2007, at around 10 p.m., at the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz, Kate Healy - like her, her husband Gerald and their friends, while dining at the Tapas, did with a periodicity that has not been rigorously established - headed for apartment G5A, in order to check on her three children, who had been left there, asleep;

- She'd barely entered the apartment when she noticed that her daughter Kate had disappeared, not being in her bed nor in any other location inside the residence and that the bedroom's window and shutters were open;

- Then, Kate Healy ran to the restaurant, immediately alerting Gerald McCann and the other friends;

- Following that alert, the entire apartment was searched and rummaged by an indeterminate number of people, thus resulting in the contamination of traces, with irreversible and undetermined damage in terms of the acquisition of evidence;

- Immediately, intense and extensive terrestrial, maritime and aerial searches were launched, which lasted for several days, involving hundreds of people and equipment and means, as sophisticated and advanced as presently available;

- Several hundred people were heard, formally and informally, whose hearing was anticipated as being of interest for the clarification of the matter, thousands of pieces of information and suggestions were analysed, and tens of sightings and locations that seemed plausible were checked. Telephone interceptions were performed and the traffic data from thousands of telephone conversations was analysed and crossed, and many thousands of diligences of the most diverse nature were developed;

- The obliging cooperation and commitment of Police forces from many Countries, with a very special mention for the British police entities, was counted upon;

- Tests and analyses were performed in two of the most prestigious and credentialed institutions for this effect - the National Institute for Legal Medicine and the British lab Forensic Science Service -, whose final results did not positively value the collected residues, or corroborated the canine markings;

- Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow for a medium man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction), nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.

But therefore we do not possess any minimally solid and rigorous foundation in order to be able to state, with the safety that is requested, which was or were the exact and precise crime(s) that was or were practised on the person of the minor Madeleine McCann - apart from the supposed but dismissed crime of exposure or abandonment - or to hold anyone responsible over its authorship.

Finally, it should be underlined that this case, unfortunately, is not a police novel, an appropriate scenario for a "crime" that is tailored for the success of the investigative work of a Sherlock Holmes or a Hercule Poirot, guided by the illusion that the forces of law and justice always manage to re-establish the altered order, returning to society the peace and the tranquillity that were only accidentally disturbed.

The disappearance of Madeleine McCann is rather an implacable and intricate case of real life, which lies closer to the lucid narrative by Friedrich Duerrenmatt, - "The Pledge. Requiem for the police novel" - because reality and everyday life owe little or no obedience, most of the times, to logic.

Life's events do not conform to stereotyped novel-like schemes, it is rather the case that its outcome is often the product of chance or conditioned by accidental and unpredictable factors, and therefore, hard to envision.

The investigators are well aware of the fact that their work is not exempt of imperfection; they have worked with an enormous error margin, and what they have achieved is very little in terms of conclusive results, especially concerning the fate of the unfortunate child. Nevertheless, they always knew that action was necessary and in reality they acted intensively and with commitment, even at the risk of erring.

Nevertheless, anyone who feels unsatisfied about the epilogue of the investigations, will have the possibility to react against it, having the possibility of eventually changing that epilogue, by prompting diligences based on new evidence, as long as that person has the legitimacy to request them and the requested diligences are serious, pertinent and consequent. They may do so in three ways: by requesting the reopening of the inquiry, under article 279, number 1 of the Penal Process Code; by appealing hierarchically against this dispatch under number 2 of article 278, or in another case, under number 2 of article 279 of the Penal Process Code, or by requesting the opening of the instruction under article 287, number 1, item b, of the Penal Process Code.

Finally, it should be noted that an archiving decision may be a fair decision, although of the possible justice, and, especially, to underline heavily that the archiving of the present files does not equal a definite and irreversible closing of the process. This process, as long as the prescription deadline for the possibly committed crimes does reach its term, and if new evidence that justifies it, appears, can always be reopened, officiously or through the request of an assistant, again ordinate to a final decision of accusation or non accusation.

Therefore, after all seen, analysed and duly pondered, with all that is left exposed, it is determined:

a) The archiving of the Process concerning arguido Robert James Queriol Eveleigh Murat, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code;

b) The archiving of the Process concerning Arguidos Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code.

Article 277 number 3 of the Penal Process Code is to be fulfilled.

Under article 214 number 1 item a) of the Penal Process Code, the coercion measures that have been imposed on the arguidos are declared extinct.

Portimão, 21.07.08

The Republic's Prosecutor

(José de Magalhaes e Menezes)

The Joint General Prosecutor"
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Is there more circumstantial evidence against the mccanns than there is CB
« Reply #344 on: September 20, 2020, 10:45:43 PM »
Thanks for posting that again Rob, it reminds us that as far as the PT authorities were concerned it was a FACT that the window was found open.


based on facts, it seems to us that the following can be asserted:

- On the 3rd of May 2007, at around 10 p.m., at the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz, Kate Healy - like her, her husband Gerald and their friends, while dining at the Tapas, did with a periodicity that has not been rigorously established - headed for apartment G5A, in order to check on her three children, who had been left there, asleep;

- She'd barely entered the apartment when she noticed that her daughter Kate had disappeared, not being in her bed nor in any other location inside the residence and that the bedroom's window and shutters were open;
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".