Author Topic: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?  (Read 60280 times)

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Offline faithlilly

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #285 on: March 29, 2021, 07:03:45 PM »
Exactly. I was thinking more why CM, Lean and others, never offered up a reward. It would have been better, then blowing money on some fake science gimmicks.

And how do you think that information obtained through the promise of money would be treated by the police?

No, better that the police did their job properly in the first place, like appealing for the AB couple to come forward.

Do you know that the police for at least two weeks after Jodi’s body was found said that there had been no positive sightings of her after she had left home, despite the fact that AB had reported her sighting on the 1st of July? Seems at the beginning even the police didn’t think that AB had seen Luke and Jodi. I wonder what changed? Was the evidence against Luke so thin on the ground that information that had been previously discounted was brought back in to play?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Rorschach

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #286 on: March 29, 2021, 08:13:11 PM »
What? Police did appeal for that couple to come forward. The same way they did with stocky man, the girl pushing the buggy, etc on the basis of having potential "information." Obviously they weren't referring to it as a sighting of Luke and Jodi at that stage, or they wouldn't be asking any couple to come forward, would they?! You've been misled by Sandra, it's not your fault. I saw the live stream too lol.

Offline Rusty

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #287 on: March 29, 2021, 08:26:56 PM »
What? Police did appeal for that couple to come forward. The same way they did with stocky man, the girl pushing the buggy, etc on the basis of having potential "information." Obviously they weren't referring to it as a sighting of Luke and Jodi at that stage, or they wouldn't be asking any couple to come forward, would they?! You've been misled by Sandra, it's not your fault. I saw the live stream too lol.

Right on que.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12536756.vital-witness-in-hunt-for-jodis-killer-comes-forward/

But aye the police never made any appeals  @)(++(*

Offline faithlilly

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #288 on: March 29, 2021, 10:45:10 PM »
Right on que.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12536756.vital-witness-in-hunt-for-jodis-killer-comes-forward/

But aye the police never made any appeals  @)(++(*

You may want to read my previous post properly before you start congratulating each other.

I posted ‘ No, better that the police did their job properly in the first place, like appealing for the AB couple to come forward’ NOT that the police didn’t make appeals.

Inadvertently you have made my point for me. The police did make appeals for stocky man, the girl with the buggy etc but despite AB contacting the police on the 1st of July no appeal, certainly in the first weeks, was made for the couple and AB wasn’t even asked to look at photographs for 6 weeks.

From their actions it doesn’t seem, certainly in the first weeks, that the couple seen by AB was in any way important from an investigation prospective.

Another appeal.

‘Officers want to trace two youths spotted on Monday night on a motorbike near the Roman Dyke pathway where Jodi's bloodied and partially dressed body was found in undergrowth. Police do not believe the pair are directly linked to the incident, but they want to know what - if anything - they saw.’

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/jul/06/ukcrime.scotland
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 11:04:47 PM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #289 on: March 29, 2021, 10:57:41 PM »
What? Police did appeal for that couple to come forward. The same way they did with stocky man, the girl pushing the buggy, etc on the basis of having potential "information." Obviously they weren't referring to it as a sighting of Luke and Jodi at that stage, or they wouldn't be asking any couple to come forward, would they?! You've been misled by Sandra, it's not your fault. I saw the live stream too lol.

The police knew about the couple from the 1st of July. Why wouldn’t they ask for them directly to come forward to be eliminated from their enquiries? Could it be that the time AB originally told the police that she had seen the couple and the clothes the couple were wearing ruled them out but 6 weeks later and with no credible sightings the police had become desperate?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 11:25:51 PM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Parky41

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #290 on: March 30, 2021, 12:29:58 AM »
The police knew about the couple from the 1st of July. Why wouldn’t they ask for them directly to come forward to be eliminated from their enquiries? Could it be that the time AB originally told the police that she had seen the couple and the clothes the couple were wearing ruled them out but 6 weeks later and with no credible sightings the police had become desperate?


Perhaps it was, what it was - an investigation. Why would the police simply pounce on this sighting prior to clarifying statements from the main witness's. Emphasis there on the word "clarifying" - It's called being thorough.

As more information was coming in further appeals were put out - looking for anyone who may have seen this girl.

You can try as hard as you like to try and thwart AB's sighting -

The girls top in the first description was that of being very dark, possibly navy with lighter coloured trousers possibly Jeans/cords, bootcut perhaps. Jodi was wearing a black hooded top with dark blue cords that were baggy around the bottom of her legs. They were lighter in colour than that of the top. Not bad at all, eh? She further described the girls hair being very dark possibly black and it appeared to be contained. Jodi had long dark hair with a hair fastener. The male was described as having sticky out hair, shoulder length, wearing a green fishing style jacket with what appeared to be a bulging pocket. He had his palms facing forward as if beckoning the girl. AB was driving, the actions of the male are what caught her attention, it was his face she remembered with that sticky out hair. LM was ID'd from a photo fit of 12 pictures of males.  No doubt AB had saw LM in the papers many times leading up to the trial, what we had of LM by the time it got to trial was a youth whom had aged by almost 18months, he had very long hair, severely tied back in a ponytail. These are the only pictures that show LM to have the appearance of "poker straight hair"  AB could have simply said, yes and picked him out in court, but this male was not the same looking as the one she had seen 18months prior. How different would the debate be now if she had -'how could she possibly pick him out as the same person, he looked nothing like the boy in the photo fit' - that is fact.

Quote
The court document clearly states that exhibit 146 was a "black or very dark navy hooded top"

the trousers were lighter in colour than the jumper. (The description of the jumper was consistent with what the deceased was wearing when she left home; her trousers were dark in colour and of a "baggy" type). "


Quote
Transcript of Interview, 4th July 2003:

After discussing what Luke was wearing on Monday night at page 44, and then some discussion about whether or not Luke and Jodi wore school uniform (they didn’t).

At P45, after discussing who bought both Luke and Jodi’s clothes, the following discussion is recorded:

DC: Oh, right, OK. Was Jodi the same, did she buy her

LM: She liked that top, she like, she bought some of her own stuff, I mean, the clothes, the cords, jeans, she was wearing on Monday night. I think they were borrowed off her sister.

DC: Mm-mm and eh what else was she wearing on Monday?

LM: Eh, a black Deftones, it was like this, it had the zip, but it was black and it had Deftones written across the back, and there, and there

DC: Aye

LM: It had sort of, a sort of distorted sort of circley oval, it had sort of, it was like a yellowy orange

DC: Yeah

LM: Band sort of thing.

DC: anything else that you can, that strikes oot or...

LM: I can’t remember the top, I mean she had her hoody zipped up most of the time so..

DC: Oh, right, aye

LM: She had her sort of navy blue DCs on- DC trainers

DC: Right

ADS: When was this, sorry?

LM: This was Monday.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #291 on: March 30, 2021, 12:56:15 PM »

Perhaps it was, what it was - an investigation. Why would the police simply pounce on this sighting prior to clarifying statements from the main witness's. Emphasis there on the word "clarifying" - It's called being thorough.

As more information was coming in further appeals were put out - looking for anyone who may have seen this girl.

You can try as hard as you like to try and thwart AB's sighting -

The girls top in the first description was that of being very dark, possibly navy with lighter coloured trousers possibly Jeans/cords, bootcut perhaps. Jodi was wearing a black hooded top with dark blue cords that were baggy around the bottom of her legs. They were lighter in colour than that of the top. Not bad at all, eh? She further described the girls hair being very dark possibly black and it appeared to be contained. Jodi had long dark hair with a hair fastener. The male was described as having sticky out hair, shoulder length, wearing a green fishing style jacket with what appeared to be a bulging pocket. He had his palms facing forward as if beckoning the girl. AB was driving, the actions of the male are what caught her attention, it was his face she remembered with that sticky out hair. LM was ID'd from a photo fit of 12 pictures of males.  No doubt AB had saw LM in the papers many times leading up to the trial, what we had of LM by the time it got to trial was a youth whom had aged by almost 18months, he had very long hair, severely tied back in a ponytail. These are the only pictures that show LM to have the appearance of "poker straight hair"  AB could have simply said, yes and picked him out in court, but this male was not the same looking as the one she had seen 18months prior. How different would the debate be now if she had -'how could she possibly pick him out as the same person, he looked nothing like the boy in the photo fit' - that is fact.

It certainly was an investigation, although a shoddy one, and that investigation appealed for witnesses in the first few days which may have been peripheral to that investigation, the boys with the moped, the girl with the buggy, stocky man. Not one appeal though for the couple seen by AB and I think this is why.

AB’s first and second statements put her sighting around 5.40 to 5.45pm. This was the breakdown of those times.

4.05pm Picked up children from school.
4.15pm Arrived at supermarket
4.45pm Left supermarket ( time on receipt)
5.50pm Arrived home after viewing a house for sale ( sighting took place after viewing the house)
6.17pm Received a phone call ‘about half an hour after she returned home’

The route AB took to get home from and the unloading of the shopping etc would have taken about 10 minutes which would put the sighting at around 5.40pm, 25 minutes after the police estimated that Jodi was murdered.

IMO this is why there was no appeal for the couple to come forward, the time the sighting took place was simply too late for it to be Jodi and Luke.

As to what the female was wearing you said:

‘The girls top in the first description was that of being very dark, possibly navy with lighter coloured trousers possibly Jeans/cords, bootcut perhaps. Jodi was wearing a black hooded top with dark blue cords that were baggy around the bottom of her legs. They were lighter in colour than that of the top. Not bad at all, eh?’

This is however was not what AB claimed in her first statements. She described the girl as having very dark, shoulder length hair...Jodi’s hair was auburn and AB didn’t mention a bobble. She was wearing a plain, navy hooded top.... Jodi was wearing a black hooded top with a large yellow Deftones logo on the back ( as can be seen from the reconstruction). She was wearing lighter blue, bootcut jeans ( no mention of cords)....Jodi was wearing black, baggy trousers ( as, again, can be seen from the reconstruction).

As to what the male was wearing you said:

‘The male was described as having sticky out hair, shoulder length, wearing a green fishing style jacket with what appeared to be a bulging pocket. He had his palms facing forward as if beckoning the girl.’

AB stated that the male was white, early 20s, average height and build with very thick sandy brown hair that appeared to be sticking up in a clump at the back. He wore a green, waist length fishing style jacket with a high collar and a bulging pocket on the arm ( AB was adamant that it was not a parka) with lots of pockets and matching trousers. She said that she could not estimate the length of the youth’s hair because of the high collar. She could not describe his face.

So AB described completely different clothes to those known to have been worn by Jodi on the day and stated that  she saw the couple at a time incompatible with Jodi’s murder at 5.15pm.

No wonder the sighting appears to have been dismissed in the first weeks of the investigation.

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Parky41

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #292 on: March 30, 2021, 03:19:06 PM »
Quote
AB’s first and second statements put her sighting around 5.40 to 5.45pm. This was the breakdown of those times.

4.05pm Picked up children from school.
4.15pm Arrived at supermarket
4.45pm Left supermarket ( time on receipt)
5.50pm Arrived home after viewing a house for sale ( sighting took place after viewing the house)

6.17pm Received a phone call ‘about half an hour after she returned home’

The route AB took to get home from and the unloading of the shopping etc would have taken about 10 minutes which would put the sighting at around 5.40pm, 25 minutes after the police estimated that Jodi was murdered

Oh dear - What do you suppose is missing from the information you have provided Faithilly?

You have 1hr and 5mins for viewing a house, why do you suppose that is? Or rather what it is you have included but chosen to leave out? I'll let you know.

You have included the time from the shop receipt (omitted the cashline one) also that AB simply drove past the house, she did not actually do a viewing. Therefore you can cancel those 65mins out. She had only intended to have a good look at the house from the outside and neighbourhood, but her children were playing up.

The breakdown of the times - were done accurately upon the shop receipt, (remember also that the time of the receipt was wrong at first, there was and error in the mechanism, bank receipt used as well)  the route she had driven and the sighting being between 4.50 - 5pm , you see, this investigation did not simply take her word for it, did they? That would be shoddy. They did not make up the timing of her journey, it was timed by the actual route she HAD taken. So we go from those first brief accounts given, to more detailed, verified ones. The problem only arises when someone comes along and tries to stitch, rather badly, little excerpts from multiple statements.

Further more - Again the wheat from the chaff. JuJ did not give an exact time of her daughter leaving, only that it had been after her husband returned home. They did not simply take her word for it, or any ones for that matter, did they? They sought to verify timings by other means. Mr Ovens on CTV at Tesco and so forth. The time he had arrived home and of Jodi leaving the house whilst he was in the loo.

Are you implying AB was manipulated by the police, along with everyone else? - Shoddy thinking perhaps on behalf of the person whom continually makes these claims - don't you think?

Offline Parky41

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #293 on: March 30, 2021, 03:49:41 PM »
Quote
This is however was not what AB claimed in her first statements. She described the girl as having very dark, shoulder length hair...Jodi’s hair was auburn and AB didn’t mention a bobble. She was wearing a plain, navy hooded top.... Jodi was wearing a black hooded top with a large yellow Deftones logo on the back ( as can be seen from the reconstruction). She was wearing lighter blue, bootcut jeans ( no mention of cords)....Jodi was wearing black, baggy trousers ( as, again, can be seen from the reconstruction).


No one said AB mentioned a bobble, she said that her hair was possibly "contained" also revert back to description from court exhibit of "very dark black or navy top"  That the trousers were "lighter" blue not light blue - they were lighter than the top.

Clarification yet again is sought of the colouring/type - In which AB states that the top was very dark in colour and that the trousers were slightly lighter than the top, that they were baggy around the bottom, possibly bootcut. cord/jeans as they did not appear to be just trousers.

Jodi was wearing dark blue cord which were lighter in colour to that of the black/navy top. Hooded. 

What colours are Newbattle high school tops Faithlilly? - I'll let you know, they are quite a bright shade of blue. Most definitely not Navy.

Why do you assume Ms Lean makes reference to the school colours whilst attempting to fool her viewers into thinking it could have been a pupil AB saw? As she stated AB said the "top was blue" in her first statement? That AB said the girl had light blue jeans on? When nowhere in any of the statements does AB say this? - Blatant misrepresentation of the actual facts? from someone whom has all of the statements?

Why do you think the police left out this "red hair bobble" in the reconstruction? - shoddy police work?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #294 on: March 30, 2021, 04:29:16 PM »
Oh dear - What do you suppose is missing from the information you have provided Faithilly?

You have 1hr and 5mins for viewing a house, why do you suppose that is? Or rather what it is you have included but chosen to leave out? I'll let you know.

You have included the time from the shop receipt (omitted the cashline one) also that AB simply drove past the house, she did not actually do a viewing. Therefore you can cancel those 65mins out. She had only intended to have a good look at the house from the outside and neighbourhood, but her children were playing up.

The breakdown of the times - were done accurately upon the shop receipt, (remember also that the time of the receipt was wrong at first, there was and error in the mechanism, bank receipt used as well)  the route she had driven and the sighting being between 4.50 - 5pm , you see, this investigation did not simply take her word for it, did they? That would be shoddy. They did not make up the timing of her journey, it was timed by the actual route she HAD taken. So we go from those first brief accounts given, to more detailed, verified ones. The problem only arises when someone comes along and tries to stitch, rather badly, little excerpts from multiple statements.

Further more - Again the wheat from the chaff. JuJ did not give an exact time of her daughter leaving, only that it had been after her husband returned home. They did not simply take her word for it, or any ones for that matter, did they? They sought to verify timings by other means. Mr Ovens on CTV at Tesco and so forth. The time he had arrived home and of Jodi leaving the house whilst he was in the loo.

Are you implying AB was manipulated by the police, along with everyone else? - Shoddy thinking perhaps on behalf of the person whom continually makes these claims - don't you think?

Do you have a scintilla of evidence for any of that? I’m guessing the answer is no.

AB got home. She received a call ‘about half an hour afterwards’...her phone said 6.17. The sighting therefore must have been at approx 5.40.

Nice attempt though.

Well done
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #295 on: March 30, 2021, 04:32:44 PM »
Do you have a scintilla of evidence for any of that? I’m guessing the answer is no.

AB got home. She received a call ‘about half an hour afterwards’...her phone said 6.17. The sighting therefore must have been at approx 5.40.

Nice attempt though.

Well done
Was her sighting ruled out in court on the basis of the time of the phone call she received?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline faithlilly

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #296 on: March 30, 2021, 04:45:45 PM »

No one said AB mentioned a bobble, she said that her hair was possibly "contained" also revert back to description from court exhibit of "very dark black or navy top"  That the trousers were "lighter" blue not light blue - they were lighter than the top.

Clarification yet again is sought of the colouring/type - In which AB states that the top was very dark in colour and that the trousers were slightly lighter than the top, that they were baggy around the bottom, possibly bootcut. cord/jeans as they did not appear to be just trousers.

Jodi was wearing dark blue cord which were lighter in colour to that of the black/navy top. Hooded. 

What colours are Newbattle high school tops Faithlilly? - I'll let you know, they are quite a bright shade of blue. Most definitely not Navy.

Why do you assume Ms Lean makes reference to the school colours whilst attempting to fool her viewers into thinking it could have been a pupil AB saw? As she stated AB said the "top was blue" in her first statement? That AB said the girl had light blue jeans on? When nowhere in any of the statements does AB say this? - Blatant misrepresentation of the actual facts? from someone whom has all of the statements?

Why do you think the police left out this "red hair bobble" in the reconstruction? - shoddy police work?

But the fact is that you don’t have all the statements so forgive me if I believe the individual who does.

If the sighting wasn’t Jodi, it wasn’t Jodi. It’s not incumbent on me, or indeed Miss Lean, to provide an alternative.

Black can be mistaken for navy but a bright yellow Deftones logo can be mistaken for nothing but a bright yellow Deftones logo. That hurdle can never be gotten over.

And the trousers, lighter than navy but definitely not black, the colour of Jodi’s trousers....just watch the reconstruction.
Another hurdle I’m afraid.

Anyway, back to the main question. Why, if the police publicly appealed for stocky man, moped boys, blonde buggy woman ( what was her sighting) they didn’t appeal for the couple by the path?

I’m guessing that the times didn’t fit.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 07:27:56 PM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Parky41

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #297 on: March 31, 2021, 01:32:06 AM »
Do you have a scintilla of evidence for any of that? I’m guessing the answer is no.

AB got home. She received a call ‘about half an hour afterwards’...her phone said 6.17. The sighting therefore must have been at approx 5.40.

Nice attempt though.

Well done
Quote

Quote
"The till receipt (originally) was timed at 16.45" however "police investigators "discovered" the time on the till receipt was wrong" - it should have read 4.32pm.


Sound familiar? - I'll help you out with, as to why they realised the till receipt time had to be wrong. AB had also used the ATM. But you know all of this of course, unless'

If you want to imply Ms Lean is lying about the evidence from the court transcripts, that is your personal choice to do so. I wouldn't however. I have made it perfectly clear that Ms Lean uses small excerpts, from multiple statements and attempts to stitch them together to make some rather futile points. That is my opinion of which I am at liberty to give.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #298 on: March 31, 2021, 09:11:12 AM »

Sound familiar? - I'll help you out with, as to why they realised the till receipt time had to be wrong. AB had also used the ATM. But you know all of this of course, unless'

If you want to imply Ms Lean is lying about the evidence from the court transcripts, that is your personal choice to do so. I wouldn't however. I have made it perfectly clear that Ms Lean uses small excerpts, from multiple statements and attempts to stitch them together to make some rather futile points. That is my opinion of which I am at liberty to give.

Of course you are at liberty to interpret the evidence in any way you chose but simply posting a quote without a source is not the optimal way of convincing others that your evidence is correct.

For me the till receipt is not the strongest evidence of a later time for the sighting. AB’s statement that she knew when she’d got home because she got a phone call at 6.17 and it was about half an hour after she got home, is.

I notice that you are still dodging the most pertinent question....if AB’s sighting was thought to be important to the investigation why wasn’t there an appeal for the couple to come forward and be eliminated, just as there was with the moped boys, stocky man etc ?

The original times didn’t fit the narrative the police were already cobbling together, that’s why.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 10:03:04 AM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Nicholas

Re: Why did suspicion fall upon Luke Mitchell?
« Reply #299 on: March 31, 2021, 01:26:59 PM »
Of course you are at liberty to interpret the evidence in any way you chose but simply posting a quote without a source is not the optimal way of convincing others that your evidence is correct.

For me the till receipt is not the strongest evidence of a later time for the sighting. AB’s statement that she knew when she’d got home because she got a phone call at 6.17 and it was about half an hour after she got home, is.

I notice that you are still dodging the most pertinent question....if AB’s sighting was thought to be important to the investigation why wasn’t there an appeal for the couple to come forward and be eliminated, just as there was with the moped boys, stocky man etc ?

The original times didn’t fit the narrative the police were already cobbling together, that’s why.

An appeal for Luke & Jodi to come forward ?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation