Author Topic: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd  (Read 3734 times)

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Offline barrier

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #105 on: April 07, 2021, 04:56:43 PM »
The cause of death is the specific injury or disease that leads to death. The manner of death is the determination of how the injury or disease leads to death. There are five manners of death (natural, accident, suicide, homicide, and undetermined).


Thanks, much as I thought.

This is my own private domicile and I will not be harassed....



Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #106 on: April 07, 2021, 05:32:17 PM »
Homicide is not a cause of death as explained in my last post.
I didn’t say homicide was the cause of death I said two reports concluded Floyd’s death was a homicide.

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #107 on: April 07, 2021, 05:35:43 PM »
A Summary of the trial - Week 2 Day 3

Session starts with Prosecutor Steve Schleicher continuing direct examination of Sergeant Jody Stiger of the Los Angeles Police Department, who is an expert witness on the use-of-force tactics and policy. Eric Nelson defending as per usual.

Schleicher commences questioning in relation to a composite of photos taken as Floyd was placed in the prone position after being removed from the vehicle. Stiger indentified that Chauvin had his left knee on Floyds neck and his right knee on his back throughout the restraint period. He also identified the pain compliance procedure effected by Chauvin on Floyd's fingers. Stiger added that the pain compliance procedure was continued throughout the restraint according to the camera footage provided to him.

Stiger stated that the severity of the crime didn't change. That the suspect did not pose an immediate threat to the five officers or that Floyd was not actively resisting while in the prone position. Asked about the MPD Defense & Control Response Training Guide with respect to active agression which allows specific actions by officers in response to agression by suspect. Stiger opined that no force should have been used when Floyd was in prone position. That force exerted by Chauvin on Floyd can be defined as deadly force.

Asked if he had ever had to arrest someone in front of a hostile crowd, state's affirmative. Asked about the crowd which was presentthe night Floyd was arrested states they were not a threat as they were concerned for Mr Floyd. Asked if Chauvin had sufficient crowd distraction training, replies in the affirmative. When asked by Schleicher how long the restraint had continued after Floyd stopped responding verbally, replied about 6 minutes.  End of direct.

Defence attorney Nelson now cross examined Stiger asking if he ever testified previously as an expert in police use of force to which he replied only in LA. Asked if entire training was wholly in accordance with LAPD policy, replied in affirmative. Admitted that techniques can vary between police departments. Admits never had any training by MPD. Admits that has not seen any training videos made by MPD. Asked about MPD training materials he had received in order to provide a substantive report.

Asked about the numerous use of force cases he had dealt with and the Graham v Connor precedent. Nelson introduced MPD Code of Practice on use of force. Nelson reads from COP, that decision on force lies with the officer at the scene and not the reviewer with hindsight. Nelson introduced the concept of the totality of the circumstances.

Asks Stiger about his claim that Chauvin applied an excessive use of force. Nelson repeats the various factors which an officer has to take into account. Stiger agreed that a non risky situation can suddenly become a risky situation. Stiger agreed that inherent risk with every call. Agreed that all of the facts should be considered before attending a call.

Stiger asked if Chauvin and other officers acted reasonably given the details from dispatch. Notably that Chauvin had been dispatched twice due to the escalation at the scene. Nelson states that dispatched heard a commotion over the radio so summed addition officers to the scene. That there was a heighten concern. That when Chauvin arrived he knew that there had been an issue with the call involving a large man under the influence. That Floyd was actively resisting the officers. Stiger agreed that Chauvin could have stunned Floyd but did not do so. Stiger agreed that Floyd was actively resisting when taken to the squad car. Agreed that Floyd said that he couldn't breathe when being put in the squad car.

Nelson asks Stiger if he has ever had a suspect feign a condition to which he replied in the affirmative.  Stiger accepted that when the futility of the efforts to put Floyd in the back seat of the squad car became clear they put him on the ground in the prone position. Stiger agreed that officers asked Floyd what drugs he had taken. Agreed that foaming at the mouth was indicative of drug ingestion. Agreed that putting Floyd in the prone position was reasonable. That such a person can still cause mischief. That a person who continues to kick may require more forceful action. That the scene of an arrest can be chaotic. That sometimes things can be missed.

Nelson plays a video to the court where it is alleged Floyd says, "I ate too many drugs!" Stiger couldn't make it out.

Stiger agreed that shortly after Floyd was put in the prone position that they called for EMS in a non emergency situation. That they considered use of the Hobble device but ultimately decided not to use it which was a de-escalation.

Agreed that officers reassessed the priority of the EMS call. That this coincided with a crowd gathering. Agreed that the use of force sometimes looks bad to the onlooker. Agreed that compliant suspects sometimes become non compliant.

Shows Stiger the MPD training materials from March 2020 which Chauvin received training on. Nelson references fact that crowds are dynamic and can change suddenly. That crowds are distracting. That name-calling can be seen as a specific threat. That officers have to decide on what to do next in context of that perceived threat.

Nelson asks Stiger about the comments coming from the crowd including, "If you touch me I'm going to slap the f..k out of you" which he accepted was a threat. Stiger agrees concept of control the head control the body as being standard protocol training. Asks Stiger if he is aware of MPD training that cuffs should be removed with caution, he replied in the negative.

Nelson references the knee to the neck and shoulder protocols in Ground Control techniques. Stiger agreed that he was aware that MDP had authorised use of neck restraints. Agreed that Chauvins knee was more to the base of the neck than on the neck.

Schleicher on redirect asks Stiger if positional asphyxia occurs more when there is pressure on the neck or the body. Stiger states any additional pressure on the body. Asks Stiger to confirm if both defendant's knees were on Floyd during entirety of the restraint to which he concurred.

Shows Stiger bodycam footage from officer Lane showing Floyd being put into the back seat of the squad car in some distress. Stiger confirms that in his opinion force applied by the defendant was excessive and not reasonable. Asked Stiger about defendant asking suspect to relax. States not necessarily a de-escalation. Confirms obligation of care in custody.

Schleicher points out that officers effecting neck and shoulder restraints in trading video were doing so on an unhandcuffed individual.

Nelson in re cross examination reminds Stiger that he was not there on the day, that he would not know about the stiffness of his body to which he agreed. Asked about the number of peer reviewers in training protocols.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 09:20:55 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #108 on: April 07, 2021, 05:38:12 PM »
I didn’t say homicide was the cause of death I said two reports concluded Floyd’s death was a homicide.

I believe the difficulty arose as the initial report made no reference to homicide but the press release did and went further.

"Decedent  experienced  a cardiopulmonary  arrest  while being  restrained  by  law  enforcement  officer(s).

 Other  significant  conditions: Arteriosclerotic  and  hypertensive  heart  disease; fentanyl  intoxication;  recent  methamphetamine  use."
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 05:49:11 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #109 on: April 07, 2021, 05:48:49 PM »
I believe the difficulty arose as the initial report made no reference to homicide but the press release did.

Decedent  experienced  a cardiopulmonary  arrest  while being  restrained  by  law  enforcement  officer(s) Other  significant  conditions: Arteriosclerotic  and  hypertensive  heart  disease; fentanyl  intoxication;  recent  methamphetamine  use.
I can’t find any cause of death given in that report, what’s missing?
Oh right, it’s in the title
CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT
CASE TITLE:
DECEASED:
DATE AND HOUR OF DEATH: 5-25-20; 9:25 p.m. DATE AND HOUR OF AUTOPSY: 5-26-20; 9:25 a.m. PATHOLOGIST: Andrew M. Baker, M.D.
FINAL DIAGNOSES:
SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 05:53:12 PM by Vertigo Swirl »

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #110 on: April 07, 2021, 05:50:03 PM »
I can’t find any cause of death given in that report, what’s missing?

See above...I have attached both official files.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline carlymichelle

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #111 on: April 07, 2021, 08:30:15 PM »
im not in anyway  defending what the police officers did but is it posssible  george would have  died of the  OD  anyway  even if police had not been there??

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #112 on: April 07, 2021, 09:28:51 PM »
A Summary of the trial - Week 2 Day 3 cont'd...

Next up was Senior Special Agent James Reyerson, of the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.  Direct examination is by Assistant Minnesota Attorney General Matthew Frank.

Frank stated he conducts criminal investigations into the use of force. That spent 6 months training with NYPD and four years thereafter on the streets. Had transferred to the DEA to investigate narcotics activity in NYC and later investigated drug cartel activity in Arizona. Moved back to home in Minnesota.

Was hired as a fraud agent by Dept of Commerce in Minnesota. In 2018 moved to Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.

Is case agent for the current investigation and incident that occurred on 25 May 2020. Is now employed by force investigation unit. Is responsible for all aspects of the investigation.

States that he was called out by supervisor at 9.45pm and reported to the City Hall to interview officers involved. Only knew that a critical incident had occurred. Was briefed at City Hall and initiated critical incident protocols before transiting to the scene.

Has seized two $20 bills in a manila envelope and a glass pipe from boot of the squad car. Arranged for two squad cars to be lifted and taken to the BCA headquarters to a secure area for processing. BCA crimescene team processed vehicles on 27 May. Secured video footage from Cup Foods and Dragon Wok. States that Cup Foods store volunteered video but Dragon Wok refused and so had to serve them with a search warrant to secure video harddrive.

Frank shows video taken from the Dragon Wok. Depicts Floyd and Morries arriving in Mercedes SUV, former driving. Both exit vehicle, Floyd seen unsteady on his feet and being led by Morries across the street to Cup Foods store. Morries goes inside leaving Floyd outside initially. Delay while mixup with videos is sorted out, Frank embarrassed.

Reyerson asked if blood samples were taken, replies in the affirmative. Also received autopsy and toxicology report also received showing preliminary findings that Floyd had been under the influence of some substance. Mercedes SUV secured before being searched and processed. Squad car 320 reprocessed where a pill was found in the back seat. Also obtained medical records and County Medical Center for George Floyd.

Watched composite video compiled from Facebook footage and police bodycam. Reyerson states video shows both Chauvin knees on Floyd's back up until moment paramedic arrived.

Nelson in cross examination has Reyerson confirm that some 50 BCA agents and some 25 FBI agents were involved in the case. That 200 witnesses were interviewed, many of whom were not witness to the event. That female owner of the SUV driven by Floyd was also interviewed. That almost 450 BCA reports have been generated.

Asks Reyerson to confirm that there was no question of the defence having put a pill in the 320 squad car. Reyerson confirms in the affirmative. (Obviously BCA missed the pill the first time the car was processed)

Nelson has Reyerson confirm that certain matters in case were not consistent with normal practise.

Nelson shows a video showing Chauvin getting up from Floyd. References the video where Floyd says, "I ate too many drugs" and Reyerson agrees. Refers to the liquid on the street immediately beside Floyd which was in fact water from the squad car air-conditioning unit.

Frank in re direct refers to words spoken by Floyd which Reyerson hadn't previously viewed. Confirmed that defence did not put pill in squad car.

Nelson on re re direct asked Reyerson to confirm he did not know if squad car was running on gas on electric while it was parked, confirms in affirmative.

Delay while parties sort out mixed-up video.

Frank continues redirect with agent Reyerson. Asked Reyerson if he had since viewed the video, affirms. Plays video yet again and confirms Floyd actually said, "I ain't do no drugs".

Nelson again on re re direct asks Reyerson about the Dragon Wok video. Published and views video. Reyerson confirms Morries Hall takes something out of his backpack and throws it along the street. States consistent with someone attempting to conceal something.

Next witness was McKenzie Anderson, Bureau of Criminal Apprension, a forensic scientist. Worked for a private laboratory before moving to the BCA. Does sample collection and body fluid identification. Works in the biology DNA section. Joined crimescene team in 2014 becoming a team leader two years later.

Explained that the laboratory is divided into multiple sections which deal with specific areas of specialisation. Affirms on call a week at a time. Been to 30 crime scenes in last 12 months. Laboratory is independently assessed and accredited.

Confirms being called to crimescene on 25 May 2020. Confirms responded with a technician and a photographer. Arrived on scene at 1.15am on 26 May for about 2 hours. Confirms learned that employee of Cup Foods had reported an attempt to pass a counterfeit bill, that suspect had been arrested, there was a struggle and moved to the grind. Became unresponsive and moved to hospital.

Arrived at scene to find the Mercedes SUV and a squad car 320 parked behind it. Was made aware that there was video of the incident.  Court views photos taken by BCA photographer.

Vehicles put on a transport and taken to BCA premises at St Paul for processing. Confirms checked for blood after being briefed that there had been a struggle in the squad car.

Frank shows several photos of Mercedes SUV in BCA garage. Anderson confirms money bills found in the SUV between centre console and passenger seat. Confirms requested by AG office to do a second search of the vehicle on 9 December 2020 to collect additional items from centre console. Confirms identification of additional items in SUV including a Suboxone packet, an unopened Suboxone packet and two pills in the front centre console.

Anderson confirms processing of squad car 320 on 27 May 2020. Frank shows photos of the squad car in the BCA garage. Items were recovered and documented including a black strap, a pair of trainers. Admits that she left a pill on the backseat floor of the squad car. Confirms requested to process squad car again and collect pill for identification.  Also found portion of further pills and powder on back seat of the squad car. Analysis testing of the pill revealed that it was positive for saliva. DNA testing confirmed a match with George Floyd.

Confirmed that 8 blood stains found in the squad car were DNA tested. All samples matched George Floyd.

Defence attorney chose not to cross examine.

Next witness was Breahna Giles, forensic scientist in the drug chemistry section of the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprension.

Direct examination by Matthew Frank.

Confirms analysis for controlled substances. Confirmed analysed a glass pipe. Performed a presumptive test and a confirmatory test. Analysed residue revealed THC or marijuana. Confirms additional testing of two white round tablets marked RP and 2 over 10 on alternate sides. Did not recognise markings. Analysis of tablets revealed they were methamphetamine and fentanyl. A further pink tablet tested positive for methamphetamine. Two further small pieces of tablet also tested positive for methamphetamine.

Nelson in cross examination sought clarification of the pill sizes and test results. Sought confirmation that other unidentified substances were found which were probably fentanyl.

Final witness was Susan Neith, forensic chemist at NMS Labs in Pennsylvania.

Direct examination by Erin Eldridge.

Confirms pharmaceutical experience. Analysis substances for presence of controlled substance or other pharmaceutical drugs. Performed approximately 6000 tests, approximately 4000 of which were quantitative analysis.

Confirms that she received three pills for testing and did quantitative analysis on them all. Confirms that they were not complete tablets, round, nothing out of the ordinary. Gave monogramming details of tablets. Photographed tablets before quantitative testing. Confirms testing report showing presence of methamphetamine and fentanyl.

No cross examination.

Court ends.




« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 01:13:05 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #113 on: April 07, 2021, 09:29:54 PM »
im not in anyway  defending what the police officers did but is it posssible  george would have  died of the  OD  anyway  even if police had not been there??

It was always possible Carly but remember he only swallowed the extra pills to hide them from the police. The felon drug dealer Morries Hall who was first seen in the Cup Foods store pacing up and down before passing something to an agitated Floyd was also in the car with him when the initial police arrived. Morries chucked his stash away but the police saw him doing it.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 09:36:57 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Angelo222

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #114 on: April 08, 2021, 01:39:28 PM »
It was always possible Carly but remember he only swallowed the extra pills to hide them from the police. The felon drug dealer Morries Hall who was first seen in the Cup Foods store pacing up and down before passing something to an agitated Floyd was also in the car with him when the initial police arrived. Morries chucked his stash away but the police saw him doing it.

For sure I have a teensy weensey bit of empathy for George Floyd but the reality is that he was a nasty piece of work with a long criminal record for numerous drug offences and at least one armed robbery. He claimed to have moved to Minneapolis for a new start but his methamphetamine and fentanyl abuse followed him.

I do feel sorry for Derek Chauvin because he didn't get up that morning unlike Floyd and think oh my...will I continue my criminal activities today...will I pass some counterfeit currency to the mugs at Cup Foods and buy some opioids from Morries Hall with the proceeds.

Chauvin was careless imo, no more and no less. He didn't deserve the BLM faux outrage heaped upon him, he didn't deserve to lose his job, his home and his way of life. One stupid mistake in the heat of the moment and he could be looking at ten years in federal prison. Pathetic!!!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 01:14:08 AM by John »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #115 on: April 08, 2021, 03:43:05 PM »
A Summary of the trial - Week 2 Day 4

First state's witness today is Irish American Dr Martin Tobin from Freshford in Ireland, a physician in pulmonary and critical care medicine at the Hines VA Hospital and Loyola University Medical School in Chicago. 

Direct questioning by Jerry Blackwell.

Asks Dr Tobin to confirm what his specialisms are. Affirms that he specialises in pulmonology and criticare care medicine. Clarifies that pulmonology is all to do with the lungs, chest wall etc. Clarifies been a physician for 45 years.

Affirms that currently works in ICU in Chicago. Been at Hines VA in Chicago for 32 years. Previously a registered doctor in Ireland and in England. Affirms that is engaged in medical research since 1981 which relates to patients with breathing difficulties. Authored a large text book on mechanical ventilation called Principles and Practice of Mechanical Ventilation which The Lancet refers to as the Bible of mechanical ventilation. Has authored several other books and lectures regularly. Has published a lot of work on basic science in The Journal of Applied Psysiology.

Affirms that has been working in respiratory psysiology since 1981. Had spent 5 years before that investigating lung disease. Replies no when asked if he knows others in his field who has been studying respiratory psysiology for 46 years.

Asked if he has served as an expert witness previously, replies yes and all to do with medical malpractice. Asked if he has ever testified in a criminal case previously, replies no. Has testified in court previously about 50 times. Affirms that he is not being paid for testifying in this case. That State of Minnesota contactef him.

Affirms that he has formed an opinion in the cause of George Floyd's death. States that Floyd died from a low level of oxygen and this caused damage to his brain which also caused a PEA arrhythmia which in turn caused his heart to stop. States has also been caused asphyxia or low level of oxygen. Asked if he had formed an opinion as to what caused the low level of oxygen in Floyd, Dr Tobin states that it was shallow breathing, small breaths that weren't able to carry the oxygen through his body.

Blackwell introduces a video which shows how oxygen travels around the body.

Asked what occurred in this case. States that his prone position in handcuffs with a knee on his neck and back. Explains what dead space is in context of breathing.

Admits assisting in creating an illustration to show the officers positions while restraining George Floyd. States that Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's neck for 90% of the time. Explains how breathing works in some depth to the jury. Compared the expanding of the lungs to the movement of a bucket handle. At the same time the chest is expanding from side to side like a pump handle. Blackwell introduces an exhibit showing the movements involved in breathing. Defence attorney Nelson objects to exhibit and judge rules sustained.

Asked if Floyd's breathing was impacted by the handcuffs, Dr Tobin states that the police were forcing his left wrist high up so that his breathing was impeded. Basically on the left side it was like he had had a lung removed so there was virtually no opportunity for air to enter into the left side of his chest leaving him totally dependent on the right side. Blackwell introduces a video showing the situation.

Witness explains that being pinned down on the street has a major role in Floyd not being able to breathe. Illustration shows Floyd pushing against the street with his fingers and later pushing against a tyre with his knuckles. Explains Floyd is using his fingers and knuckles in an attempt to crank up his air intake.

Asked about the knee on the neck, Dr Tobin states that it would exclude air getting into the passageway. Dr Tobin then opens his shirt neck and demonstrates compression on his own neck. He explains that the upper throat or hypopharynx area is particularly vulnerable, has no cartilage around it and extremely small to breathe through.

Blackwell introduces exibit showing hypopharynx which Dr Tobin uses to explain breathing. Explains that hypopharynx is also controlled by the size of the lungs. As the lungs expand so too does the hypopharynx. States that had Chauvin placedvhisvknee on the hypopharynx then that area would have been occluded but he moved his knee slightly over time so reaction was delayed. Defence makes further objection as jury had been invited to put hands on their own necks as Dr Tobin does a demonstration. Judge tells jurors they can do so if they wish.

Dr Tobin states that there is variation over time as to where Floyd's head was and as to where Chauvin had his knee. Asked about calculating the force exerted, witness responds in the affirmative. As the space narrows it becomes increasingly difficult to breathe. Further time out.

Blackwell introduces a chart showing effect of narrowing of passageway.  Witness explains mathematical relationship between pressure loss, flow and narrowing of the airway. Explains the with narrowing the effort to breath becomes great and eventually unsustainable. Explains that Chauvin's knee caused a narrowing of the hypopharynx. Shows photo showing Chauvin's left boot off the ground meaning that half his entire weight (91.5 lbs) was on Floyd's neck.

Asked to characterise Floyd's oxygen levels for the first 5 minutes and three seconds that Chauvin was on top of him, the witness responds that we know that his oxygen levels were high enough to keep his brain alive because he continued to speak.  Further time out and mid morning break.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 10:42:09 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #116 on: April 08, 2021, 05:30:28 PM »
For sure I have a teensy weensey bit of empathy for George Floyd but the reality is that he was a nasty piece of work with a long criminal record for numerous drug offences and at least one armed robbery. He claimed to have moved to Minneapolis for a new start but his methamphetamine and fentanyl abuse followed him.

I do feel sorry for Derek Chauvin because he didn't get up that morning unlike Floyd and think oh my...will I continue my criminal activities today...will I pass some counterfeit currency to the mugs at Cup Foods and buy some opioids from Morries Hall with the proceeds.

Chauvin was careless imo, no more and no less. He didn't deserve the BLM faux outrage heaped upon him, he didn't deserve to lose his job, his home and his way of life. One stupid mistake in the heat of the moment and he could be looking at ten years in federal prison. Pathetic!!!
There’s plenty of people in prison for their “careless mistakes”, why should Chauvin be any different from them?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 01:14:47 AM by John »

Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #117 on: April 08, 2021, 06:01:29 PM »
A Summary of the trial - Week 2 Day 4 cont'd...

On resumption Blackwell introduces the subject of oxygen levels in adults. He introduces exhibits showing lung volumes in the body while participating in various movements. Blackwell returns to the compression of the hypopharynx by Chauvin's knee and asks witness to explain how this would affect lung volume. Witness responds that the reduction in lung volume would have the effect of constricting the hypopharynx. Explains that anyone placed in the prone position results in a reduced lung volume estimated at about 24%. That lung reserves are also reduced. Adds that a 24% reduction in lung capacity also reduces oxygen reserves in the lung. Blackwell asks why someone with covid or pneumonia is placed in the prone position, witness responds that with some patients they do improve but that doesn't apply to people with normal lungs. Asked about people sleeping in the prone position, witness states that normal lungs have sufficient reserves to overcome any reduction in lung capacity.

Asked about the officers knee being on back or side, witness affirms that they will all reduce reserves. That Floyd's reserves reduced with the officers knees on his back. Calculates the reduction of being about 43% in oxygen reserves, of which 24% is simply being in the prone position. Blackwell introduces other illustration exhibits showing the effect of the lung volume on the hypopharynx opening in the sitting, prone and with a knee on the back.

Asked if there was a point in time when Floyd had so little oxygen that he lost consciousness, witness responds that it was at 24.53 recognised by Floyd's facial features. Asked what Floyd's oxygen level would have been at that time, witness states that it would have been 36, the level of oxygen in human blood. The normal level for Floyd would have been 89. That once consciousness was lost, that oxygen level would drop to zero after a further 25 seconds. Adds that Chauvin's knee remained on Floyd's neck for a further 3 minutes.

Asks witness if he is aware of studies which claim that putting someone in the prone position with a weight on their back is not dangerous. Confirms in affirmative and adds that they are highly misleading. Says that the studies, possibly 10, involve putting people on a mat, not on a hard surface. Clarifies that studies are not measuring lung capacity. Claims that the Chan Diego Studies bare out by a factor of 10. Asked if any studies have taken place involving a knee on the neck, affirms there haven't and adds that he suspects such a study would have some difficulty getting past the ethics panel.

Asks witness if he was aware of Floyd's pre-existing health conditions, states he is having read about them in the hospital records and in the autopsy reports. Asked if a healthy person would have died if subjected to the same conditions as Floyd. Affirms that a healthy person would also have died. Asked if he knew that Floyd had a tumour known as a paraganglioma, affirms he does. Explains that a paraganglioma is a tumour that is found in the pelvis. Asked if the presence of a paraganglioma was significant to Floyd's death, affirms it wasn't. Adds that there are only six reported cases worldwide of anyone dying from paraganglioma and those were sudden deaths, added that Floyd's was not a sudden death.

Witness agrees that the statement, 'if you can speak you can breathe' is true but gives one an enormous false sense of security. Adds that it does not guarantee you will still be breathing 5 seconds later. Explains that you only speak when exhaling. Adds you cannot speak if the brain is not alert. Asked if the timing of Floyd's speech was important, affirms and adds that it tells us that there could not have been total occlusion of the neck for the 4 minutes and 51 seconds. Asked if the brain is sensitive to oxygen deprivation, affirms and adds that the brain is the most sensitive organ to needing oxygen. Adds that the brain is only 2% of the body weight but uses 20% of the oxygen. Also adds that you lose consciousness in 8 seconds if starved of oxygen.

Asked if Floyd's last words "I can't breathe" were significant, affirms that at that point he had oxygen in his brain but had a major loss of oxygen a short time later...a very dangerous mantra! Confirms that he could identify from the various videos when Floyd was no longer alert.

Witness is shown a short video clip showing Floyd's right leg lift up. Witness states that this was a seisure brought about by lack of oxygen to the brain. Adds that the brain was reacting to a fatally low level of oxygen, an involuntary reaction.

Witness shown graphics showing effect of airway narrowing on patient effort to breathe. Empathises that at the point you can't speak you are in deep trouble. Witness asked if he had taken his clinical experience and applied it to Floyd's breathing, affirms that he did. Asked if there was video evidence from which he could take measurements, affirms there was. Video was played showing Floyd's breathing. Witness confirmed that this was how he established breathing rate. Explains that with fentanyl Floyd's respiratory rate should have been down to about 10 but Floyd's was normal at 22 breaths per minute just before he lost consciousness.

Asked about the high level of CO² found in Floyd's blood in the hospital. States that it was significant. States that Floyd's CO² level in the emergency room was 89. States that the normal level is 35-45 mm of mercury. Adds that Floyd made his own spontaneous effort to breathe until 20.25:16. That he remained a further 3 minutes on the street before the ambulance arrived and they eventually successfully put in an airway, a gap of some 9 mins and 50 secs. Explains that the high CO² level found in Floyd's blood in the emergency room was predictable given the delay in inserting an airway. Asked why this was significant, the witness stated that it was the second reason why fentanyl did not cause the depression on Floyd's respiration.

Witness asked about other factors. States that someone with heart disease who have shortness of breath will have respiratory rates of over 30, even over 40. Instead of this we found that Floyd's respiratory rate was normal at 22. Adds that the second thing that is important with someone with a 22 respiratory rate is that if there is a narrowing of the airway, a restriction on the hypopharynx, them the psysiology response is a normal respiratory rate.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 09:02:18 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline barrier

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #118 on: April 08, 2021, 07:07:02 PM »
@John, Stirling work keeping us informed of thee proceeding's. 8((()*/

This is my own private domicile and I will not be harassed....



Offline John

Re: The Trial Of Derek Chauvin, Death Of George Floyd
« Reply #119 on: April 08, 2021, 09:02:51 PM »
A Summary of the trial - Week 2 Day 4 cont'd...

Blackwell asks the witness if he observed in the videos evidence of low oxygen in the last minutes of George Floyd's life. Witness affirms and states that the changes in the facial appearance becomes crucially important. Asked if he sees this in other patients, states that he has, that he works in an ICU unit where 40% of the patients die.

Blackwell brings back a video clip showing Chauvin kneeling on Floyd. Witness states, one minute he is alive, next minute he is unconscious. Shows another video clip at 20.22:56 showing Floyd moving his hip in an attempt to get air.

Reaffirms that the knee remained on the next for another 3 mins and 20 seconds after he takes his last breath.

End of direct examination.  Break for lunch returning at 1.30pm

Cross examination by defence attorney Eric Nelson.

Nelson states witness was asked by the State of Minnesota to assist them in the review of the medical issues in this case, witness affirms. That witness agreed to do the work at no cost, witness affirms. That witness not normally involved in criminal cases of this nature, witness affirms. That this is the first time that the witness has been involved in a criminal case, witness affirms. That that was the reason witness decided not to charge a fee, witness affirms. Witness states that he normally charges per hour at a rate of $500 an hour for reviewing material. That witness had waived his hourly rate for this case, witness affirms. That witness felt it was an important case, witness affirms.

Nelson asks witness if he has reviewed all the materials in the case and that he is not a pathologist, witness affirms. Reminds witness that MPD officers medical training comes nowhere near to his own expertise, witness agrees.

Nelson makes reference to the numerous meetings that witness has had with the prosecution and the time he has had to prepare material adding that he himself only received the material last night!

Nelson talking about dynamic events and how things change on a second by second basis. States that the witness has taken this case and literally wound it down to one nanosecond, witness disagrees saying that there is a whole chronology from the moment Floyd had a knee placed on him prone on the street to the arrival at the hospital.

Nelson points out that there was nobody measuring the units of force being applied, witness states that they were all calculable. Points out that the pathologist looks at how other factors may contribute to a death, affirms.

Nelson points out that the time spent by witness looking at the incident is a thousand times taken for the original incident.

Witness states that the low level of oxygen caused damage to the brain and the irregular heart rhythm PEA.

Nelson states that there was no bruising to the neck, witness agrees.

Nelson speaks about the "If you can speak...you can breathe'" comment and pointed this out, would witness have a problem with that. Witness replies that situation can change from second to second.

Nelson claims that witness calculations are generally theoretical, witness disagrees and adds that they are based on direct measurements and extensive research. Nelson asks if he is making certain assumptions in the application of the science but witness again disagrees. Nelson says he is assuming the weight of the defendant and his equipment, witness accepts. Nelson also states that witness has made assumptions about the weight distribution between Chauvin's legs, witness agrees. Nelson points out that that weight is redistributed as events flow, witness agrees.

Witness agreed with Nelson that calculations assumed a healthy 46 year old in his models and can vary considerably. That the psysiology make-up of the individual is relevant.

Witness denies that Floyd's heart disease was relevant. Absence of chest pains evidences this according to witness and demonstrating a very rapid respiratory rate. Points out that they didn't see either.

Nelson struggling with his own voice today (will he last another 3 weeks?) and failing to pronounce certain basic medical terms. A moment of tension relief however as Nelson blames the Irish witness' accent for his own failure to pronounce some words. Witness responds with a, "I can't compensate for it" retort.

Nelson also mentions the fact that Floyd had previously been diagnosed with Covid-19 and it's effects, some discussion ensued including reference to placing patient in the prone position. Witness affirms but adds it is people with Covid and will vary from person to person.

Nelson referenced the autopsy report as to the substances found in Floyd's system. Asked about illicit ingestion of fentanyl  witness agrees that it can cause respiratory depression, witness affirms.  Asked if the methamphetamine can increase the heart rate, witness affirms. Adds that it is a prescribable agent.

Nelson reminds witness that fentanyl tablets were found in the squad car.  Nelson asks witness if fentanyl and methamphetamine tablets had been ingested by Floyd, would the reaction have been seen within 5 minutes? Witness affirms. Explains 20:18 ingested meaning peak reaction by 20.23. Witness confused but then agrees.

Nelson makes reference to seisure previously attested to by witness at 20:24. Last breath estimated by witness at 20.25.16.
At 20:35.06 first air pumped in. Paramedics arrived at 20:27.45. That is was nearly 9 minutes before first air pumped into Floyd, witness agrees.

End of cross examination.

Blackwell on re direct.  Asks witness if he saw Mr Chauvin get off the back of Floyd, witness replies no.  Asks witness where Mr Chauvin's knee was during all that time, witness responds that it was on Floyd's neck.

Asks witness if low oxygen shows up on autopsy, witness states it isn't.

Asks if Floyd's pre-existing health conditions had any relevance to Floyd's death, affirms it wasn't.  Adds that the cause of death was the low level of oxygen which caused brain damage and the heart to stop.

Blackwell references substances in Floyd's system, nicotine. Asks did he die from nicotine, witness laughs and states no. Blackwell references fentanyl and methamphetamine. Asks any evidence that Floyd died from meth, witness states no. Blackwell mentions ingesting fentanyl within five minutes of death. Witness agrees that you would see a depression in the respiratory system if someone was suffering from a fentanyl overdose and a reduction in the ability to breathe but there was no evidence of this with Floyd. Asked if there was any evidence that fentanyl had impacted Floyd's breathing in any way, witness replies no.

End of re-direct.

Defence re-cross examination.

Clarified couple of points including fenta being a cause of death.

Re re direct by Blackwell.

Asks witness to confirm that people who die from fentanyl overdose go into a coma, witness affirms smiling.

End of re re direct.  Judge calls a 5 min break so all can get their voices back.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 01:17:25 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.