What's Significant About LM Finding J J?

[faithlilly]

His Liam Gallagher/scooby doo hairstyle maybe?

[54] It was accepted by everyone that there had been extensive media coverage of the case, as appeared from paragraph [96] of the trial judge's report. However, the copies of the coverage produced showed that that publicity was of a national character, both in the press and on television. That had an important bearing upon the issue relating to the location of the trial. Furthermore, it ought to be recognised that a substantial part of the publicity which the case had attracted was based upon statements made by or on behalf of the appellant. The fact that some of the publicity had been generated in that way was relevant to the present issue. If some disadvantage was self-inflicted, the appellant could hardly complain of it.
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

I believe that it was from a newspaper article presented to her by the police.

It’s interesting that, much like AB, the police didn’t appear to follow up Walsh and Fleming’s sighting in any meaningful way until the coworker’s tip off.

[faithlilly]

By killer Luke Mitchell and his lying mother Corinne Mitchell’s orchestrated PR stunts

The exclusion from school publicity

The replacement parka jacket photo shots

The Sky TV interview

The graveyard stunt

Although Andrew Holburn - who did NOT know killer Luke Mitchell (contrary to what charlatan Sandra Lean stated in her book) said he hadn’t seen photo’s of psycho killer Luke

[49] Likewise, at page 599 of the same volume, in the cross-examination of Andrew Holburn, the witness agreed that he had taken an interest in what had been reported in newspapers about the matter. He had seen certain photographs of the deceased published, but not of the appellant.

I believe we were talking about Caroline Heatlie.

In what way did Luke wearing a parka influence Caroline Heatlie to describe Luke as wearing a bomber jacket and jeans?

[Kenmair]

A hypothetical question for anyone that wishes to consider (if you agree with the court decisions).

At what point in the evening do you think LM admitted what had happened to CM/SM? If there was burning at 6.30pm I find it hard to believe he would have admitted everything before then and gone back out?

Was it raining at 6.30pm and would it not have been easier to dispose of any incriminating evidence later perhaps when SM was out than have a fire in the garden?

[faithlilly]

A hypothetical question for anyone that wishes to consider (if you agree with the court decisions).

At what point in the evening do you think LM admitted what had happened to CM/SM? If there was burning at 6.30pm I find it hard to believe he would have admitted everything before then and gone back out?

Was it raining at 6.30pm and would it not have been easier to dispose of any incriminating evidence later perhaps when SM was out than have a fire in the garden?

Interesting question.

Was it just after he was allegedly seen by Walsh and Fleming…when he had at most around ten minutes to get home, wash, change , tell his mother that he’d murdered his girlfriend and be back on the Newbattle road to be seen by Holborn et al. Can you imagine that conversation?

Or perhaps after being seen by Holborn and friends for the second time on their way back at around 6.20-30? Luke’s friends who met him in the Abbey said that they met him around 7 and he’d already called them to see where they were.
Not much time there then to devastate those around you.

The rain I believe started around 7.30 that night and strangely that was around the time that the neighbour said that they had smelled the ‘strange’ smell. Rather odd trying to burn anything when it was threatening rain. Anyhow perhaps the rain put out the fire and Corrine lit the fire around 10 to finish the job…but wouldn’t the parka be sopping wet by then? It really is a puzzle.

[Kenmair]

Interesting question.

Was it just after he was allegedly seen by Walsh and Fleming…when he had at most around ten minutes to get home, wash, change , tell his mother that he’d murdered his girlfriend and be back on the Newbattle road to be seen by Holborn et al. Can you imagine that conversation?

Or perhaps after being seen by Holborn and friends for the second time on their way back at around 6.20-30? Luke’s friends who met him in the Abbey said that they met him around 7 and he’d already called them to see where they were.
Not much time there then to devastate those around you.

The rain I believe started around 7.30 that night and strangely that was around the time that the neighbour said that they had smelled the ‘strange’ smell. Rather odd trying to burn anything when it was threatening rain. Anyhow perhaps the rain put out the fire and Corrine lit the fire around 10 to finish the job…but wouldn’t the parka be sopping wet by then? It really is a puzzle.

It is indeed a puzzle, perhaps only known by three people who were there on the night. I'm not convinced LM even went home to wash and speculative as it is (but not half as speculative as some of SL/SF's theories) may have had a change of clothes in a bag in the NBA woods. He wasn't witnessed near his house until 10pm I think.

Also, he called CM 7pm approx to see if Jodi had been and to re-direct her to the Abbey then when he returned when he claimed 9/9.30pm he asked CM if Jodi had been but he'd already told her he was at the Abbey which doesn't add up.

What was SM doing that night as it was claimed he was in and out the house all night and witnessed 10 miles away which he claimed he was getting petrol but there was a garage less than a mile away.

Is it possible LM was not at home at all that night from approx 4pm and only went back to get the tracker dog as a prop?  Why didn't CM or SM not go out searching with him at 11pm and just sent him off with a torch in the dark for his girlfriend who had been missing for 6 hours.

[Parky41]

Interesting question.

Was it just after he was allegedly seen by Walsh and Fleming…when he had at most around ten minutes to get home, wash, change , tell his mother that he’d murdered his girlfriend and be back on the Newbattle road to be seen by Holborn et al. Can you imagine that conversation?

Or perhaps after being seen by Holborn and friends for the second time on their way back at around 6.20-30? Luke’s friends who met him in the Abbey said that they met him around 7 and he’d already called them to see where they were.
Not much time there then to devastate those around you.

The rain I believe started around 7.30 that night and strangely that was around the time that the neighbour said that they had smelled the ‘strange’ smell. Rather odd trying to burn anything when it was threatening rain. Anyhow perhaps the rain put out the fire and Corrine lit the fire around 10 to finish the job…but wouldn’t the parka be sopping wet by then? It really is a puzzle.

Mangling times around to suit, confirmed times are much more realistic of course. - And adding all sorts of arms and legs on to make is seem all so impossible. Nonsense as per. You have no idea what he said to his mother, or perhaps you do?

He had no twin nor triplet, he was not seen in what he professed to be his real self where he attempted to place himself. He was seen by three people wearing the clobber, that army style khaki coat. Of course it is ludicrous to suggest that these were different people identical to LM wearing his coat. But nothing of the real him.

Seen again some 15-20mins later in this shiny green bomber, and again he claimed this was his twin, yet the real him wearing the other identical shiny green bomber was not seen just a little further down that road. The couple who could not identify him, only the exact clothing he was wearing before making his way down to the entrance of that estate.

He did indeed call his mother then the boys - Now pop the exact times of those calls up, including the two to chase them when they were running late.

It was a dismal day all round, grey skies, dreich, cooler weather as was evident with that heavier outer clothing being worn by people. Not the weather at all to be sitting for hours in ones garden burning giant candles to set off clouds of smoke is it, but certainly drizzly weather, constant at points with heavier outburst to make any fire smoke that could not be covered completely with that metal lid. Did you manage to find out what happened to the metal bin it belonged to?

Where the point is there was a fire going at different intervals - Whatever was being burnt was certainly being done at different points over the course of that evening. The neighbours not mistaken and no reason to be, five of them who all stated that there was no fire in their garden nor any giant candles being burnt, indoors as not the weather to be soaking up any fake sunshine at all.

Next thing you will be saying, is you too were out on your patio when a dirty black cloud appeared from nowhere in those blue skies and soaked you? Knowing his mother was still in the garden (cough).

So out with the actual times of the calls, then whilst you are at it, a full list of every call with the Mitchells that evening, along with that extensive list to the speaking clock. What time was PM called at? What time was SM up town fuelling that car? Where was SM when LM claimed to borrow a torch, in fact where was LM? at that time. That his mother was absolutely frantic an hour later, on repeat but nothing to the Jones household, the place he claimed he told her he was off to?

[faithlilly]

It is indeed a puzzle, perhaps only known by three people who were there on the night. I'm not convinced LM even went home to wash and speculative as it is (but not half as speculative as some of SL/SF's theories) may have had a change of clothes in a bag in the NBA woods. He wasn't witnessed near his house until 10pm I think.

Also, he called CM 7pm approx to see if Jodi had been and to re-direct her to the Abbey then when he returned when he claimed 9/9.30pm he asked CM if Jodi had been but he'd already told her he was at the Abbey which doesn't add up.

What was SM doing that night as it was claimed he was in and out the house all night and witnessed 10 miles away which he claimed he was getting petrol but there was a garage less than a mile away.

Is it possible LM was not at home at all that night from approx 4pm and only went back to get the tracker dog as a prop?  Why didn't CM or SM not go out searching with him at 11pm and just sent him off with a torch in the dark for his girlfriend who had been missing for 6 hours.

If Luke had stowed away some clothes in the woods you seem to be suggesting that the murder was premeditated. What do you think his motive was then? Let’s put to one side that Jodi was grounded as far as he knew and focus on the alleged motive of Jodi finding out about the other woman. Now Jodi’s mother claimed that Jodi was looking forward to meeting Luke that night and LNS said Jodi left her house ‘joyfully’ so I think logic tells you that she certainly didn’t know about Kimberly before she met with Luke and yet Luke was ‘coming equipped’. So what do you think his motive was? This 14 year old boy who Jodi said ‘stroked her face when she cried’.

As to your second point is it beyond the realms of possibility for Jodi, when hearing Luke was at the Abbey might have decided not to go to the Abbey and mess about with him and his friends? Perhaps she’d have been annoyed that Luke hadn’t waited? That she had to share him, yet again, with his idiot friends? In conclusion perhaps he was just checking?

As to Shane, perhaps his friend lived 10 miles away and he needed petrol urgently? Does everything about the Mitchell’s movements raise questions in you? Is looking for sinister motives simply become a self fulfilling prophecy?

Why do you find Corrine and Shane not going out with Luke to find Jodi any more suspicious than Judith, Alan, and Joseph not going out to look for a member of their family? To be fair there needed to be someone in the house to give the police the information they needed but why did Alan and Joseph not go out?

[Kenmair]

If Luke had stowed away some clothes in the woods you seem to be suggesting that the murder was premeditated. What do you think his motive was then? Let’s put to one side that Jodi was grounded as far as he knew and focus on the alleged motive of Jodi finding out about the other woman. Now Jodi’s mother claimed that Jodi was looking forward to meeting Luke that night and LNS said Jodi left her house ‘joyfully’ so I think logic tells you that she certainly didn’t know about Kimberly before she met with Luke and yet Luke was ‘coming equipped’. So what do you think his motive was? This 14 year old boy who Jodi said ‘stroked her face when she cried’.

As to your second point is it beyond the realms of possibility for Jodi, when hearing Luke was at the Abbey might have decided not to go to the Abbey and mess about with him and his friends? Perhaps she’d have been annoyed that Luke hadn’t waited? That she had to share him, yet again, with his idiot friends? In conclusion perhaps he was just checking?

As to Shane, perhaps his friend lived 10 miles away and he needed petrol urgently? Does everything about the Mitchell’s movements raise questions in you? Is looking for sinister motives simply a self fulfilling prophecy?

Why do you find Corrine and Shane not going out with Luke to find Jodi any more suspicious than Judith, Alan, and Joseph not going out to look for a member of their family? To be fair there needed to be someone in the house to give the police the information they needed but why did Alan and Joseph not go out?

The same 14 year old boy who had history of threatening at least 3 other girls with knives. I think he is a psychopath - do they have motives?

He was told she'd left when he phoned at 5.40pm but waited until at least 6.15pm for a walk that takes 15 mins. Do you really believe that he would hang around 30-45 mins waiting when he was chasing his friends up twice to meet up and say she's not coming out tonight when he could have walked down the path to where they usually met in less than 15 mins. Oh aye, his pride was hurt for being stood up.

Yes, everything about the Mitchell's movements that night are sinister.

Perhaps AO wanted to be with JuJ when the police arrived for support. And Joe was probably out for the count after smoking copious amounts of drugs. LM was a 14 yr boy alone on a dark path - that's the difference.

[faithlilly]

Mangling times around to suit, confirmed times are much more realistic of course. - And adding all sorts of arms and legs on to make is seem all so impossible. Nonsense as per. You have no idea what he said to his mother, or perhaps you do?

He had no twin nor triplet, he was not seen in what he professed to be his real self where he attempted to place himself. He was seen by three people wearing the clobber, that army style khaki coat. Of course it is ludicrous to suggest that these were different people identical to LM wearing his coat. But nothing of the real him.

Seen again some 15-20mins later in this shiny green bomber, and again he claimed this was his twin, yet the real him wearing the other identical shiny green bomber was not seen just a little further down that road. The couple who could not identify him, only the exact clothing he was wearing before making his way down to the entrance of that estate.

He did indeed call his mother then the boys - Now pop the exact times of those calls up, including the two to chase them when they were running late.

It was a dismal day all round, grey skies, dreich, cooler weather as was evident with that heavier outer clothing being worn by people. Not the weather at all to be sitting for hours in ones garden burning giant candles to set off clouds of smoke is it, but certainly drizzly weather, constant at points with heavier outburst to make any fire smoke that could not be covered completely with that metal lid. Did you manage to find out what happened to the metal bin it belonged to?

Where the point is there was a fire going at different intervals - Whatever was being burnt was certainly being done at different points over the course of that evening. The neighbours not mistaken and no reason to be, five of them who all stated that there was no fire in their garden nor any giant candles being burnt, indoors as not the weather to be soaking up any fake sunshine at all.

Next thing you will be saying, is you too were out on your patio when a dirty black cloud appeared from nowhere in those blue skies and soaked you? Knowing his mother was still in the garden (cough).

So out with the actual times of the calls, then whilst you are at it, a full list of every call with the Mitchells that evening, along with that extensive list to the speaking clock. What time was PM called at? What time was SM up town fuelling that car? Where was SM when LM claimed to borrow a torch, in fact where was LM? at that time. That his mother was absolutely frantic an hour later, on repeat but nothing to the Jones household, the place he claimed he told her he was off to?

No mangling of times. Every one evidenced in many of my posts. I don’t expect the reader simply to believe me.

AB described green clothes like one would wear for fishing….and under oath verified that ‘it was not a parka’. W/F describe a green, hip length jacket that appeared ‘wet’ ( shiny ). Sounds a lot like Luke’s bomber jacket to me. No one described ‘an army jacket’….not in their statements. Why you keep posting this fallacy when it has been debunked time and time again heaven alone knows.

Luke, seen in his bomber jacket by at least 6 witnesses from 5.50 onwards at different positions on Newbattle Road. Probably by W/F too if their incorrect  placement of the jogger is considered.

You are making the point with regard to the phone calls so I’ll await those times with cites please?

Metal bin? You do make me laugh Parky.

What is interesting about the burning smell that night is that only a selected few neighbours actually smelled it….an odd state of affairs with all the houses being so close.

Can you explain why you think Corrine would have Judith or any other of the Jones’s phone numbers to contact them? Did your mum have your girlfriend’s/boyfriend’s mother’s phone number?

Yet again your curiosity only extends to the Mitchell family. Where were F/D when there bike was spotted at the wall? Where was [Name removed] when his mother said that he ‘called out’ but he said he’d slept all night? When he said he’d had dinner with Jodi yet his mum said he’d had it in his room? Go on….let your curiosity wander.

[faithlilly]

The same 14 year old boy who had history of threatening at least 3 other girls with knives. I think he is a psychopath - do they have motives?

He was told she'd left when he phoned at 5.40pm but waited until at least 6.15pm for a walk that takes 15 mins. Do you really believe that he would hang around 30-45 mins waiting when he was chasing his friends up twice to meet up and say she's not coming out tonight when he could have walked down the path to where they usually met in less than 15 mins. Oh aye, his pride was hurt for being stood up.

Yes, everything about the Mitchell's movements that night are sinister.

Perhaps AO wanted to be with JuJ when the police arrived for support. And Joe was probably out for the count after smoking copious amounts of drugs. LM was a 14 yr boy alone on a dark path - that's the difference.

[Name removed] said in her statement that she woke Joseph up to tell him Jodi was missing so he was definitely awake. Luke had Mia…he was perfectly safe.

3 girls who were not called as witnesses at Luke’s trial? 3 witnesses whose testimony would have been dynamite for the prosecution. It does make you wonder why they weren’t called, doesn’t it? Ah yes….the prosecution didn’t know they existed as they didn’t tell anyone about their ‘trauma’ until it was financially beneficial to do so.

Yes I do believe it…he was a 14 year old boy. As to Jodi ‘not coming out’…only one of Luke’s friends claimed to have heard him say that. The rest denied he did. So who was being truthful?

[Name removed] said in her statement that she woke Joseph up to tell him Jodi was missing so he was definitely awake. Luke had Mia…he was perfectly safe.

[faithlilly]

This is interesting.

“ FRIDAY

THE court hears that Mitchell smoked cannabis with his pals a little more than two hours after Jodi left home for the last time.

School pal David High, 16, says that Mitchell called him at about 6.30pm on June 30 last year and invited him round.

David and two other friends set out to walk to Mitchell's home but he called them and told them to go to Newbattle Abbey College instead.

Advocate Depute Alan Turnbull QC asks the teenager: 'Where did you go then?' David replies: 'We just stayed there.”

So Luke was seen by Holborn and friends for the second time on the Newbattle road at around 18.20-30. David High receives a call from him at 18.30 to go to his house. Luke’s decides to go to the Abbey instead and calls High.  High arrives at the Abbey around 7 ( evidenced in court testimony). If Luke called High again to tell him to hurry up he must have been in the Abbey shortly after 6.30.

[faithlilly]

The manipulation;

“We all know that the jacket was disposed of after the sighting by F&W. We know LM was just minutes from his home. We know he needed an alibi, we know he needed to be seen and he was from approx 6pm until just after 6.15pm. - And we know he vanished completely from this time until he met with the boys at 7.30pm.”

And the facts;

“He said (David Tulloch): 'That night I got a phone call from David High, who was pals with Luke.

'We went up to meet him at the college at about 7pm and we just mucked about.”

And again

[Bullseye]

A hypothetical question for anyone that wishes to consider (if you agree with the court decisions).

At what point in the evening do you think LM admitted what had happened to CM/SM? If there was burning at 6.30pm I find it hard to believe he would have admitted everything before then and gone back out?

Was it raining at 6.30pm and would it not have been easier to dispose of any incriminating evidence later perhaps when SM was out than have a fire in the garden?

If the courts were right then he would have to go right home after being seen by the witness around 5.30, giving him 15-20mins to get home from the spot he was seen, change clothes and explain to his mum then get to the end of the street to be seen by the boys. Is that likely? I don’t think so. Yeah maybe get home and get changed but explain to his mum as well and for her to allow him to leave all within 15/20 mins unlikely.

Only way I can see it is he sneaks in and gets changed, without his mum and brother seeing him. His mum may have been in the garden. Puts the bloody stuff and knife in a bag then heads out to sit at end of the street  Then when he gets home later and takes dog out he bins the bloody stuff in any bin on his street, they would all have been out on street to be emptied the following day. Heads home and gets a txt from [Name removed] mum.
Could be his mum and brother did not know anything.  I don’t think he would have time to shower also, maybe but going by the description of him at police station I don’t think he showered. There was no trace of blood found in his home and nothing found on him. I think if he did it he would need to have been wearing gloves for no dna to be under his nails but then that leans towards premeditation and Imo this was not premeditated

[faithlilly]

If the courts were right then he would have to go right home after being seen by the witness around 5.30, giving him 15-20mins to get home from the spot he was seen, change clothes and explain to his mum then get to the end of the street to be seen by the boys. Is that likely? I don’t think so. Yeah maybe get home and get changed but explain to his mum as well and for her to allow him to leave all within 15/20 mins unlikely.

Only way I can see it is he sneaks in and gets changed, without his mum and brother seeing him. His mum may have been in the garden. Puts the bloody stuff and knife in a bag then heads out to sit at end of the street  Then when he gets home later and takes dog out he bins the bloody stuff in any bin on his street, they would all have been out on street to be emptied the following day. Heads home and gets a txt from [Name removed] mum.
Could be his mum and brother did not know anything.  I don’t think he would have time to shower also, maybe but going by the description of him at police station I don’t think he showered. There was no trace of blood found in his home and nothing found on him. I think if he did it he would need to have been wearing gloves for no dna to be under his nails but then that leans towards premeditation and Imo this was not premeditated

It’s worse. F/W claimed to have seen Luke at 5.45.

[Kenmair]

3 girls who were not called as witnesses at Luke’s trial? 3 witnesses whose testimony would have been dynamite for the prosecution. It does make you wonder why they weren’t called, doesn’t it? Ah yes….the prosecution didn’t know they existed as they didn’t tell anyone about their ‘trauma’ until it was financially beneficial to do so.

Yes I do believe it…he was a 14 year old boy. As to Jodi ‘not coming out’…only one of Luke’s friends claimed to have heard him say that. The rest denied he did. So who was being truthful?

[Name removed] said in her statement that she woke Joseph up to tell him Jodi was missing so he was definitely awake. Luke had Mia…he was perfectly safe.

How much do you think these teenage girls got paid to tell their story? Could it not have been they were living in fear in case he was found not guilty and was released?

How do you know LM's friends were idiots? That's a bit presumptious unless they actually were. As to JuJ waking [Name removed] - was he just having a post-murder nap if we are to believe Det. Forbes latest theory? By the sound of it he was in a drugged state and not fit to walk about.