The less talked about sighting on Newbattle Road by M O'Sullivan & D Hamilton...

[William Wallace]

No you haven't - you listed 12 points that everyone already knew about.

That nobody can answer.

[Brietta]

Testified what? Nobody saw clothes being burnt. There's no proof he owned a a parka. Same as there's no proof of hanging dogs from front doors or being a Satanist. It was all just made up by the Police and drip fed to the media.

There is witness testimony not just to the parka but to his possession of the skunting knife, both of which vanished from the face of the earth after Jodi's murder.
A replacement parka was bought, as was a replacement knife.

Witnesses testified the log burner was used to burn something which smelled odd.  Mitchell said the log burner had been used ~ his mother and brother said it hadn't.

I have no idea what your reference to 'hanging dogs from front doors' is and I don't really care unless you can give me a cite for it being said in court.

Please allow me to remind you of his demand for satanic books on the grounds of his religion - nothing made up by the police about that was there - it was the real deal.

You really are in denial about all of this.

[Paranoid Android]

That nobody can answer.

Glad you agree that you haven't 'exposed gaping holes in the case.'

You were always going to do this - post the questions, wait for no-one to bother answering, then claim some sort of Pyrrhic victory.

No one is obliged to address your points - all of which have been debated countless times already.

[Parky41]

The problem I have with Parky41’s theory is Luke being able to surreptitiously get back in the house without being seen — even if he was using the erskbank (sp?) river path route. I had a look on google earth and, contrary to what Parky41 said, this isn’t a route directly to Luke’s front door and nor would it take 2 mins to reach his house once he emerged from the woodland area; it would be more like 5-10 minutes (even when running). Furthermore, even though he would be off the main road, I doubt Luke would not have been seen by his neighbours or someone in the adjacent houses from the adjacent streets in that housing scheme where he lived at the time.

I suppose there’s the possibility that Luke could’ve hid the parka jacket somewhere (away from the locus — perhaps somewhere west at the erskbank river path after the F & W sighting) and went back later that night between 2130-2230 and collected it or collected it in the next couple of days before the FLO was appointed and then disposed of it by whatever means. The reason I say disposed of the jacket after the f & w sighting is because MO & DH & boys who knew Luke all said he was wearing a bomber jacket and not a parka when they all saw him on Newbattle Road rd between 1745 and 1815.

Btw, who said that Luke was looking ‘cleaner than normal’ during 1900 hrs and 2130 that fateful night? Parky41 said this in one of his posts.

This is absolute nonsense - All you are looking at is the actual Esk Walkway path that is highlighted on Google Earth. There are many smaller trodden paths. Much like the Woodland Jodi was murdered in Mr Apples. What paths do you see in this woodland and further into the Golf course on Google Earth?? Google Earth pathways in woods have nothing to do with the LM's entry and access points. Much like the narrow trampled passageway down the inside of the wall. And I never said there was one that landed LM right at his front door. And where is this 5-10mins running after emerging from this woodland directly into Newbattle Abbey Cres. Think here carefully? For we know it was timed at approx: two mins for LM to walk from his front door - to the entrance of this estate where he claimed he phoned the Jones landline? It is ludicrous to suggest here that it would have taken LM 5-10mins to get from the woodland at Newbattle Abbey Cres to his door even walking at a snails pace, far less in haste.  - when it takes 7mins to get from his door to RDP? Walking. And LM had at the very least - 15mins to get through this woodland and back - to change his clothing. Then no sightings of him for 75mins. From 6.15 until 7.30pm

And for being seen? - After emerging from this woodland? That would have taken him seconds at haste. Less than a minute to reach the hidden area of his front garden (completely surrounded in trees and high hedges.) Remember here, 2mins walking from door to Newbattle R'd. And you claim it is highly unlikely that he would not have been seen? And of using this woodland as a means to being seen - perfect is it not? For getting off the main R'd. and not being seen.

Two mins where he claimed to walk from his house to the entrance - unseen. 5.32pm until almost 6pm (your timings are completely wrong.) LM was not seen by the boys, by the motorist until just after 5.55pm through to 6.15pm. That is the official timings. Ms Lean or yourself - may wish to jump from their first given estimate to official timings when suit - From No Smoke to IB and to every discussion had on these forums. There was not half an hour between the boys sightings. It was timed at under 15mins. and from around 6pm.

And exactly what I have been saying - LM whilst crossing the Road from RDP stopped in his tracks at the gate when F&W's car came along. Then nothing until almost 6pm. Until he was first seen with the bomber jacket on - Where, If he was on Newbattle R'd from 5.32pm until nearly 6pm are the sightings? Where from 6.15pm until he is in the company of the boys at 7.30pm - are these sightings? From Newbattle R'd, from this Abbey which is rife with dog walkers, employees from the industrial estate and students? Oh and joggers? And of course his own brother?

But mostly - This 7mins walking from his door to RDP. If you double this/walking it is 14mins. Through the woodland at haste knocks more than enough time off. For him to have gotten changed and back onto the road to be seen. For no more than 20mins. - which was to tie in with his later claims of waiting a short while for Jodi - on the premise of course - that there had been no firm plans to meet?? Yet here he was, claiming to wait for someone -which turned into an expansive amount of time - on the basis that they had not planned to meet anyway?

Just before 6pm MO’S and her partner DH saw a youth wearing a green bomber jacket. He was at a gate on the Newbattle Road.

At 6 or just before Luke was identified sitting at the end of his street by people who knew him wearing a green bomber jacket, baggy jeans and light coloured snowboarding boots.

Interesting - the times are correct, the gate? but these light coloured snowboarding boots - really, did the boys say this? - LM of course did own snowboarding boots, several pairs - what happened to them?

And of your question of LM looking more kempt than usual - you are asking me? tsk. You should know this - you seem pretty well versed on the usual ?'s and misinformation?

[Parky41]

That nobody can answer.

The 12 questions are nonsense - as are the poster ones doing the rounds. One of which is the data being scrubbed from LM's phone - claiming that the police did this after putting LM in the police car - to go to the station. Utter nonsense yet again - People are readily accepting this nonsense. Again this extraordinary obtuse reasoning - That the police would scrub this data due to it proving LM innocent in some way. As it shows the data was scrubbed whilst LM was in the company of these officers - whilst he was texting away on it? These brain cells don't stop for one moment and think - At this point the police did not know when Jodi died, they did not know the details of timing of meeting and so forth, or much of anything at all. But the conspiracy is that they needed to scrub this data? LM scrubbed the data from his phone - pure and simple. He scrubbed it for that very reason, as it would show clearly those texts and so forth. Of all communication with Jodi, KT and his mother. And he was fortunate that Jodi, using her mothers phone had deleted her messages - private correspondence - there was no innocent reason for LM to scrub his. And certainly no cause for the police to do this. - But as Faithlilly says - there are those who eagerly sook on the gristle. The likes of SD? - a nasty sort with many run ins with the law. Long spells in prison for crimes he certainly did commit. - And lots for which he got away with it would seem. These criminals who blame others for their own crimes - exactly what we see over and over with this case. The narcissist in them?

One must ignore all and everything to do with the Mitchells, clear their minds and use only the word of Lean and the Mitchells. to not be "willfully ignorant"  - What a recipe that has turned out to be? They can't even sing from the same hymn sheet anymore - continuously tripping the other up. And tripping themselves up as the answers change over and over. That is why it is important to free your mind from them, to not ask questions - as one continuously forgets their previous answers. erm erm! - the classic signs of manipulators and liars - zone yourself in, don't think the Mitchells - think about the others! - What a lot of nonsense. Of course people have to think about the Mitchells - and the first thing they should be thinking of, is - Why are we not seeing much more of their evidence, their plight/story. Where is CM, where are her many talks over the years? JE podcast perhaps answers this - what a shambles, one dreads to imagine, If this case were ever to reach the courts again - the field day the prosecution would have with these lies. But of course they are not worried - as they know the strength of the evidence. They know that the only thing that would gain LM freedom is a technicality of law not of innocence itself. 18yrs over the media we have consistently heard these claims of startling 'new evidence' A smokescreen to draw support. And here we have it again on the back of C5 based on Ms Leans evidence - There is no evidence to show LM to be innocent - never has been.

Let us take this brother - of Ms Leans claims if that the Jury had heard information on this dubious character - would they still have reached a beyond reasonable doubt verdict? - Well they heard about these boys whom were there, they heard about SK with his sperm and semen present. And of course we do have DF in all of this (I know, like everyone and all else, he was useless) We know Lean mentions this brother as he was mentioned in court by his mother. - And she uses whatever information and extracts to let us know what DF knew. What we do know where this Jury is concerned, is it still would not and could not disprove the actual evidence that brought about LM's conviction. You can not change the evidence against him on the basis of ? around others, Attempt to disperse doubt yes, as was done with the actual presence of DNA of Kelly and the lies and presence of the boys on the bike. And if Ms Lean wishes to include any information on others, hear say or otherwise - all that has not been proven - should this Jury have heard the very same of LM.? Claimed hearsay or otherwise - perhaps this free for all should be allowed - And what an even sorrier state of affairs that would have been for LM. Not forgetting his brother - every dubious, shady thing about him also - slapped before this Jury. - It, on this basis would only have added to the evidence against LM himself.

[Nicholas]

The 12 questions are nonsense - as are the poster ones doing the rounds. One of which is the data being scrubbed from LM's phone - claiming that the police did this after putting LM in the police car - to go to the station. Utter nonsense yet again - People are readily accepting this nonsense. Again this extraordinary obtuse reasoning - That the police would scrub this data due to it proving LM innocent in some way. As it shows the data was scrubbed whilst LM was in the company of these officers - whilst he was texting away on it?

[Name removed]’s body has just been found and he’s busy deleting her text messages - along with all others 



Text message from Corinne to Luke Mitchell - 1st July 12.29am

You will tell me right now what is wrong. I'm on my way up to find you

LM scrubbed the data from his phone - pure and simple. He scrubbed it for that very reason, as it would show clearly those texts and so forth. Of all communication with Jodi, KT and his mother.

[Nicholas]

They know that the only thing that would gain LM freedom is a technicality of law not of innocence itself. 18yrs over the media we have consistently heard these claims of startling 'new evidence' A smokescreen to draw support. And here we have it again on the back of C5 based on Ms Leans evidence - There is no evidence to show LM to be innocent - never has been.

Nope - the classic innocence fraud case

[faithlilly]

This is absolute nonsense - All you are looking at is the actual Esk Walkway path that is highlighted on Google Earth. There are many smaller trodden paths. Much like the Woodland Jodi was murdered in Mr Apples. What paths do you see in this woodland and further into the Golf course on Google Earth?? Google Earth pathways in woods have nothing to do with the LM's entry and access points. Much like the narrow trampled passageway down the inside of the wall. And I never said there was one that landed LM right at his front door. And where is this 5-10mins running after emerging from this woodland directly into Newbattle Abbey Cres. Think here carefully? For we know it was timed at approx: two mins for LM to walk from his front door - to the entrance of this estate where he claimed he phoned the Jones landline? It is ludicrous to suggest here that it would have taken LM 5-10mins to get from the woodland at Newbattle Abbey Cres to his door even walking at a snails pace, far less in haste.  - when it takes 7mins to get from his door to RDP? Walking. And LM had at the very least - 15mins to get through this woodland and back - to change his clothing. Then no sightings of him for 75mins. From 6.15 until 7.30pm

And for being seen? - After emerging from this woodland? That would have taken him seconds at haste. Less than a minute to reach the hidden area of his front garden (completely surrounded in trees and high hedges.) Remember here, 2mins walking from door to Newbattle R'd. And you claim it is highly unlikely that he would not have been seen? And of using this woodland as a means to being seen - perfect is it not? For getting off the main R'd. and not being seen.

Two mins where he claimed to walk from his house to the entrance - unseen. 5.32pm until almost 6pm (your timings are completely wrong.) LM was not seen by the boys, by the motorist until just after 5.55pm through to 6.15pm. That is the official timings. Ms Lean or yourself - may wish to jump from their first given estimate to official timings when suit - From No Smoke to IB and to every discussion had on these forums. There was not half an hour between the boys sightings. It was timed at under 15mins. and from around 6pm.

And exactly what I have been saying - LM whilst crossing the Road from RDP stopped in his tracks at the gate when F&W's car came along. Then nothing until almost 6pm. Until he was first seen with the bomber jacket on - Where, If he was on Newbattle R'd from 5.32pm until nearly 6pm are the sightings? Where from 6.15pm until he is in the company of the boys at 7.30pm - are these sightings? From Newbattle R'd, from this Abbey which is rife with dog walkers, employees from the industrial estate and students? Oh and joggers? And of course his own brother?

But mostly - This 7mins walking from his door to RDP. If you double this/walking it is 14mins. Through the woodland at haste knocks more than enough time off. For him to have gotten changed and back onto the road to be seen. For no more than 20mins. - which was to tie in with his later claims of waiting a short while for Jodi - on the premise of course - that there had been no firm plans to meet?? Yet here he was, claiming to wait for someone -which turned into an expansive amount of time - on the basis that they had not planned to meet anyway?

Interesting - the times are correct, the gate? but these light coloured snowboarding boots - really, did the boys say this? - LM of course did own snowboarding boots, several pairs - what happened to them?

And of your question of LM looking more kempt than usual - you are asking me? tsk. You should know this - you seem pretty well versed on the usual ?'s and misinformation?

Was there ever an appeal for witnesses who had seen Luke in the places he said he’d been to come forward? Those dog walkers, those estate workers, joggers etc, etc etc? Would they have known one blonde lad from another? Absence of evidence, as they say, isn’t always evidence of absence.

[Paranoid Android]

The walk from Jodi's house to the V is 9 minutes.

The walk from the V to the entrance of Newbattle Abbey Crescent is 11 minutes - going down RDP, and straight along Newbattle Road.

Both walks are downhill - I walk it often.

Could be done faster if you were in a hurry, of course.

[Parky41]

The walk from Jodi's house to the V is 9 minutes.

The walk from the V to the entrance of Newbattle Abbey Crescent is 11 minutes - going down RDP, and straight along Newbattle Road.

Both walks are downhill - I walk it often.

Could be done faster if you were in a hurry, of course.

And fast through those woods.

Quite so: - None faster than LM according his mother. Amazingly fit lad in tow behind his pooch.

Do you walk often from where the granny stayed to this path? - I'm led to believe it's a 10-15min walk at a brisk pace - which is of course what we are told the search party walked, until they were actually on this path. Of marching down, not turning torches on searching - even though they were "armed" with the knowledge that Jodi was to be "up here" We know they were coming out the complex around 11.18pm when JaJ was speaking with LM on the phone - one of those mysterious calls that Ms Lean does not have in her defence files. And one which LM denies?  And we know the only knowledge they were "armed with" was of Jodi failing to meet Luke, that he was on this path looking, not running, claiming Jodi had failed to arrive on the other side earlier. 

We know there was no time for an organised search to be arranged. We know Jodi was reported missing at 10.50pm. We know the police attended in person after 11pm, that they had barely written the report when Jodi was found. We know LM claimed to be out his door at 11.52pm tearing up this path and so forth (by his mother) and that he was still on it? We know he had nothing for his dog to scent with. We know he had climbed the wall at the Gino spot. And we know without a shadow of  doubt that this search part had not walked passed this V. And we know that they have never claimed to, not from that first statement until being on the stand.

And of just recently - SL claiming Jodi was found just before 11.38pm? - the first call to the emergency services at 11.34pm. Is Ms Lean now trying to add time to the other end? And of CM saying Jodi was found at 11pm - where she works from this to put the search party - already out searching. Having posted before that the search trio were at the top of this path at 11pm? - such a mess.  Super fast son in this scenario - out his house at 10.52 and at the top of the path by 11pm - no consistency, tangling themselves up repeatedly - trying to work around the lies first told, and of LM of where he actually was and all he said?

What is clear - is these campaigners need to start singing in harmony, - What a mess. Most of whom are not interested in the slightest of evidence where the Mitchells are concerned - busy working their way through the corrupt conspiracy theories of the police. Whilst others are franticly vying for first spot on the who done it part of the book. Mr Apples whom pretends to only be working his way through the case and the book - to say "I'll have a better idea who the killer/s are at the end of it?"

Will there be a prize for top pupil? Some posters are even commenting now - Of SL being of no further use? All the questions have been answered. Leave her alone and "buy the book, buy the book, buy the book" If one did not get the impression money was involved, money trail and profits (don't buy from Amazon, they have served their purpose). It was after all Faithlilly who suggested it, of money to be made from this case - perhaps once funds are ample enough the book will replace the Gideon in hotel rooms? - We already have the ridiculous fliers? - Of police deleting data and so forth - Which will work of course - lots of people out there with just the correct amount of brain cells, it would seem?

These people should be aware of the Mitchell story, ever changing from 4.25 - 5.45. From 5.32 - 7.30. from 9-10.40. from 11.20. ------- And every bit of LM's actions along with his mother. That if they actually did have an interest in any justice. They would first and foremost seek to know this case. Not the bullet points and opinionated answers of obtuse explanation given by Ms Lean. - These absurd claims that this search trio should have been looking anywhere else - rather than that plain and simple basis of reality and fact - the couple had not met according to LM, in Newbattle. That this family had barely drawn breath when LM led them to her body. - they won't as it is boring. Far better to have police corruption and conspiracy theories. Of a who done it avenue. - Juicy. The crooks and the braindead (maybe all the drugs?) - in their hero worship of the bad amongst us?

[Nicholas]

10.52

[faithlilly]

10.52

Can you imagine the embarrassment of a young man’s solitary pursuits being bandied about the courtroom and on the pages of the next days newspapers for all to see? He agreed ? Of course he did. What did you expect him to say...’of yes I pleasure myself regularly when the family are home‘ ! It’s like the seminal question when did you stop beating your wife. There is no answering it well.

But more about Shane’s statements later.

[mrswah]

And fast through those woods.

Quite so: - None faster than LM according his mother. Amazingly fit lad in tow behind his pooch.

Do you walk often from where the granny stayed to this path? - I'm led to believe it's a 10-15min walk at a brisk pace - which is of course what we are told the search party walked, until they were actually on this path. Of marching down, not turning torches on searching - even though they were "armed" with the knowledge that Jodi was to be "up here" We know they were coming out the complex around 11.18pm when JaJ was speaking with LM on the phone - one of those mysterious calls that Ms Lean does not have in her defence files. And one which LM denies?  And we know the only knowledge they were "armed with" was of Jodi failing to meet Luke, that he was on this path looking, not running, claiming Jodi had failed to arrive on the other side earlier. 

We know there was no time for an organised search to be arranged. We know Jodi was reported missing at 10.50pm. We know the police attended in person after 11pm, that they had barely written the report when Jodi was found. We know LM claimed to be out his door at 11.52pm tearing up this path and so forth (by his mother) and that he was still on it? We know he had nothing for his dog to scent with. We know he had climbed the wall at the Gino spot. And we know without a shadow of  doubt that this search part had not walked passed this V. And we know that they have never claimed to, not from that first statement until being on the stand.

And of just recently - SL claiming Jodi was found just before 11.38pm? - the first call to the emergency services at 11.34pm. Is Ms Lean now trying to add time to the other end? And of CM saying Jodi was found at 11pm - where she works from this to put the search party - already out searching. Having posted before that the search trio were at the top of this path at 11pm? - such a mess.  Super fast son in this scenario - out his house at 10.52 and at the top of the path by 11pm - no consistency, tangling themselves up repeatedly - trying to work around the lies first told, and of LM of where he actually was and all he said?

What is clear - is these campaigners need to start singing in harmony, - What a mess. Most of whom are not interested in the slightest of evidence where the Mitchells are concerned - busy working their way through the corrupt conspiracy theories of the police. Whilst others are franticly vying for first spot on the who done it part of the book. Mr Apples whom pretends to only be working his way through the case and the book - to say "I'll have a better idea who the killer/s are at the end of it?"

Will there be a prize for top pupil? Some posters are even commenting now - Of SL being of no further use? All the questions have been answered. Leave her alone and "buy the book, buy the book, buy the book" If one did not get the impression money was involved, money trail and profits (don't buy from Amazon, they have served their purpose). It was after all Faithlilly who suggested it, of money to be made from this case - perhaps once funds are ample enough the book will replace the Gideon in hotel rooms? - We already have the ridiculous fliers? - Of police deleting data and so forth - Which will work of course - lots of people out there with just the correct amount of brain cells, it would seem?

These people should be aware of the Mitchell story, ever changing from 4.25 - 5.45. From 5.32 - 7.30. from 9-10.40. from 11.20. ------- And every bit of LM's actions along with his mother. That if they actually did have an interest in any justice. They would first and foremost seek to know this case. Not the bullet points and opinionated answers of obtuse explanation given by Ms Lean. - These absurd claims that this search trio should have been looking anywhere else - rather than that plain and simple basis of reality and fact - the couple had not met according to LM, in Newbattle. That this family had barely drawn breath when LM led them to her body. - they won't as it is boring. Far better to have police corruption and conspiracy theories. Of a who done it avenue. - Juicy. The crooks and the braindead (maybe all the drugs?) - in their hero worship of the bad amongst us?

Were you in court for the trial, Parky?

If not, you don't KNOW what happened, any more than the rest of us do.

[Brietta]

Were you in court for the trial, Parky?

If not, you don't KNOW what happened, any more than the rest of us do.

There is little in the way of information from the original trial.  I have seen many claims made 'quoting' witness statements - which of course they do not.

Have you ever clapped eyes on a bona fide witness statement cos I haven't.  There has to be a little balance somewhere and I think Parky is one of those providing that balance usually with well thought out posts backed up with what we know are on record accurate timelines of events.

I have seen a load of ill researched nonsense put about much of it at variance with the facts.

Was Sandra Lean at the trial ~ she certainly has taken her part in shaping her interpretation of it into a career ~ but it seems you accept her interpretation as gospel.

What didn't you agree with in Parky's post.
Neither timelines or local knowledge are my forte but I followed the post quite well because it was so clearly thought out and well presented.  What am I missing here?

[mrswah]

There is little in the way of information from the original trial.  I have seen many claims made 'quoting' witness statements - which of course they do not.

Have you ever clapped eyes on a bona fide witness statement cos I haven't.  There has to be a little balance somewhere and I think Parky is one of those providing that balance usually with well thought out posts backed up with what we know are on record accurate timelines of events.

I have seen a load of ill researched nonsense put about much of it at variance with the facts.

Was Sandra Lean at the trial ~ she certainly has taken her part in shaping her interpretation of it into a career ~ but it seems you accept her interpretation as gospel.

What didn't you agree with in Parky's post.
Neither timelines or local knowledge are my forte but I followed the post quite well because it was so clearly thought out and well presented.  What am I missing here?

Not as gospel, no, but I think she has researched the case as well, if not better, than anyone.

I asked Parky if he had been at the trial, because, if he  had, I would be more likely to accept what he says. If he hadn't, he is no more credible than Sandra  Lean (and no, she wasn't at the trial, as far as I know).