Author Topic: The less talked about sighting on Newbattle Road by M O'Sullivan & D Hamilton...  (Read 100768 times)

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Offline Parky41

What access do you have to the police statements and trial transcripts?

A direct question that’s been asked of you several times without success. Perhaps before you libel others again your access should be clarified.

Libel others? I stated clearly that I do not believe Ms Lean would alter direct evidence. Has she lied?

And I clearly state that she produces nothing more than others with this 5%. That this 5% can be disproved easily with the very absence of directness -  as opposed to multiple obtuse areas of reasoning.

And you are at it again - taking this stance of knowledge is power - I can't cite more so I do not know more. Absolute nonsense - I have clearly shown, for the most part it is direct from Ms lean, from Crown evidence and so forth.

And this futile belief that people know far more about this case than what Ms Lean may bank on - of those many people who did sit through this trial - The legal professionals, the students, the media spectators and so forth.

Of the many discussions not infiltrated by trolls spreading the word!

You suggested I should read statements - Have you? Think carefully, again before you answer that?

Offline faithlilly

Let's turn that around - It could not be shown that Jodi did not die at this time - could it?  And that here is what is extremely relevant. - And one does have to take all of the evidence into account. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Jodi had went elsewhere. That she was not leaving to meet with LM. We know Ms Lean has tried to shoe horn her death into other areas, that she claims the police could not use - thus picked her time of death? Nonsense.

The evidence is in abundance towards LM. You can not simply say the police chose this time due to his false alibi? Which in itself speaks volumes. That they could not squeeze it into 6.15 until 7.30. Nor 9 until 11.20.

It was all of the evidence that brought about this TOD. Not simply squeezing it into a suitable time. And that TOD can not be disproven. - And you can not keep air brushing over the very evidence that came directly from the Mitchells. By these continuous attempts to shift the goal post onto others - Their actions need explained with precision and clarity, first and foremos - the book most certainly won't do that.

No let’s not turn it around. What is the evidence that Jodi died at 5.15? It really is simple enough.

The truth you are trying furiously to avoid is that there is absolutely no evidence, forensic or circumstantial, that categorically puts Jodi’s death at  5.15. The timeframe was plucked from thin air because that is the time Luke had no one but his family as an alibi. That’s the truth of it. Smear the family, charge them with a crime that  there is no evidence the police had any intention of going ahead with...remember your questions about SM and the bike etc that were never investigated...and it really is job done.

So again....what evidence is there for the TOD?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 02:10:21 PM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Libel others? I stated clearly that I do not believe Ms Lean would alter direct evidence. Has she lied?

And I clearly state that she produces nothing more than others with this 5%. That this 5% can be disproved easily with the very absence of directness -  as opposed to multiple obtuse areas of reasoning.

And you are at it again - taking this stance of knowledge is power - I can't cite more so I do not know more. Absolute nonsense - I have clearly shown, for the most part it is direct from Ms lean, from Crown evidence and so forth.

And this futile belief that people know far more about this case than what Ms Lean may bank on - of those many people who did sit through this trial - The legal professionals, the students, the media spectators and so forth.

Of the many discussions not infiltrated by trolls spreading the word!

You suggested I should read statements - Have you? Think carefully, again before you answer that?

Please just answer the question.

What access do you have to witness statements and trial transcripts?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Parky41

Please just answer the question.

What access do you have to witness statements and trial transcripts?

You first - go on?, have you read the statements, all of them. Have you read all of the court transcripts? And If you have, then we know you are Ms Lean and if you have not - on either personality there, it matters not - for only around 5% of it is actually used - that is not rocket science, is it? 9 weeks of a trial hundreds of witness statements, consisting of 1000 upon 1000's of words - Hardly surprising DF had his highly trained, expansive legal team going through everything - neither you nor Ms Lean has everything.


Offline Brietta

Is it really appropriate for a Senior Forum Moderator to be constantly promoting Dr Lean's book?

I think it is fine for the simple reason that mods are allowed to take part in discussions and voice opinions and the other side of the coin is that I am allowed to rubbish a book I think is badly researched rubbish.

Please be assured that when she has her mod's hat on Mrswah does the job fairly and without bias
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Nicholas

Libel others? I stated clearly that I do not believe Ms Lean would alter direct evidence. Has she lied?

And I clearly state that she produces nothing more than others with this 5%. That this 5% can be disproved easily with the very absence of directness -  as opposed to multiple obtuse areas of reasoning.

And you are at it again - taking this stance of knowledge is power - I can't cite more so I do not know more. Absolute nonsense - I have clearly shown, for the most part it is direct from Ms lean, from Crown evidence and so forth.

And this futile belief that people know far more about this case than what Ms Lean may bank on - of those many people who did sit through this trial - The legal professionals, the students, the media spectators and so forth.

Of the many discussions not infiltrated by trolls spreading the word!

You suggested I should read statements - Have you? Think carefully, again before you answer that?

Of course Sandra Lean has lied

There are different types of lies and of lying

Lies by omission are one
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 02:48:07 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

I view Sandra Lean as a duplicitous and deceitful liar


‘There are various ways of classifying lies: by their consequences, by the importance of their subject matters, by the speakers’ motives, and by the nature or context of the utterance.
Perhaps the most useful way to classify lies is by to the people who tell them. Understanding lies and liars can help us avoid getting duped as well as protect us from drifting into dishonesty ourselves.
https://www.nirandfar.com/types-of-liars/
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline faithlilly

You first - go on?, have you read the statements, all of them. Have you read all of the court transcripts? And If you have, then we know you are Ms Lean and if you have not - on either personality there, it matters not - for only around 5% of it is actually used - that is not rocket science, is it? 9 weeks of a trial hundreds of witness statements, consisting of 1000 upon 1000's of words - Hardly surprising DF had his highly trained, expansive legal team going through everything - neither you nor Ms Lean has everything.

Have you read all the witness statements and court transcripts? A simple yes or no will suffice.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Brietta


Members are under no obligation to answer questions neither should members harass others to do so.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Paranoid Android

I think it is fine for the simple reason that mods are allowed to take part in discussions and voice opinions and the other side of the coin is that I am allowed to rubbish a book I think is badly researched rubbish.

Please be assured that when she has her mod's hat on Mrswah does the job fairly and without bias

I agree, but how many times has it been posted in the last few days on this very thread?

If there's one thing we've learned from this forum, it's that SL has a book out - even to the extent that we're asked not to buy it from Amazon, as that source doesn't bring Dr Lean top dolla.

We know she's written a book, and we know where we can get hold of a copy if we want one - there's a thread dedicated to it.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 03:05:26 PM by Paranoid Android »

Offline faithlilly

Members are under no obligation to answer questions neither should members harass others to do so.

Of course they are under no obligation to answer any question but an inference can and will be drawn from their silence.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Parky41

No let’s not turn it around. What is the evidence that Jodi died at 5.15? It really is simple enough.

The truth you are trying furiously to avoid is that there is absolutely no evidence, forensic or circumstantial, that categorically puts Jodi’s death at  5.15. The timeframe was plucked from thin air because that is the time Luke had no one but his family as an alibi. That’s the truth of it. Smear the family, charge them with a crime that  there is no evidence the police had any intention of going ahead with...remember your questions about SM and the bike etc that were never investigated...and it really is job done.

So again....what evidence is there for the TOD?


Absolute rubbish - plucking out of thin air. Smear the family?

You can airbrush this family as much as you care to. I am not smearing them, I am saying it exactly how it was. You want a repeat of this: - ok

CM told the police she arrived home around 5.05pm That this Monday was no different to any other. That Luke was in the kitchen brandishing brocolli, that the dinner was not ready. That LM asked his mother "was Shane home", clearly at this point that he had not been included in the dinner. His brother had not seen him. That they finished dinner. That LM had left around 5.45pm to wait for Jodi arriving around 6. - true? yes it is. Skip the t-shirt, the sunshine and all else.

That within 24hrs SM gave his account. That this day was like any other Monday. That he arrived home at his usual time, around 3.30pm He could not remember what he had for dinner or of seeing his brother.

That after speaking with his mother - he remembered her coming home, at her usual time of around 5.05pm. That he spoke with her. That he then got shouted for dinner some ten mins later. Ate it and went out just after 5.30pm.

That he contacted the police to let them know that he then remembered the above - and it fitted in exactly with CM arriving home at her usual time.

Two statements in less than 36hrs - is this correct? See I do not know everything. But if one was within 24hrs then the change shortly after - I'm doing basic math here.

Then by the Friday - it all changed again. SM had not arrived home at his usual time. Two statements tied to one. That he then did not see his brother still on his arrival home contrary to what Ms Lean changes around, from my post yesterday and her quotes. That CM had not arrived home until 5.15 or just after. That LM had left home no later than 5.30pm

Smearing them, no - clear to see, yes.

And further to this we have to add in more evidence do we not? - Those further claims of no fixed meet. Of phoning the landline, why? - we do not want assumptions made for him - what did he say? As it made no sense to phone if Jodi was not supposed to arrive until 6pm - Such a tangled web all of this. And of course walking this isolated path alone - and of claiming to be waiting until around 7pm to then phone the boys - We are not interested in passing the buck but we shall yet again highlight the Jones household:

That they had lost track of time. Not idling away. Concocted story - no? That they did not know where this meet was to be, they did not know if Luke was late - they knew nothing. Other than what they claimed. That it did not seem that long. That they were not worried and that we know if he had phoned back they would have been alerted/worried. What is blatantly obvious from all we do know - is her parents did not for one moment - think she had been walking to Newbattle on her own. Then they would have had cause to be worried. It could have been the grans, the caravan park anything - see we do not know, do we? But we do know not this path, and not alone - we know there was a ban. What we also know is, that as soon as Jodi's mother realised her daughter had not been with LM - she did not for one moment believe she had simply went elsewhere. She reported her missing in around 10mins. - We can see clearly from this, with pretty much a very fair assumption - that this mother was frantic - she knew something was wrong. And I ask again - did the penny drop, from the earlier call and so forth - we need to see this do we not, rather than these useless areas of 5%- as, as stated, showing more would no doubt show just how much manipulation is going on. We know how it works in a court room - with two sides and fair play.

We know JuJ asked LM when visiting their home that very question - "why did you not call back?" And he said "I thought you had grounded her" - Is this where she became suspicious? Again, those very relevant parts, that context, is always missing.

And we know that this ban, of walking this path alone, of "mucking around up here" - had absolutely no time to be thought of in detail, did it? - ridiculous to attempt to tie this in - From barely one moment to realising her daughter was missing, to barely drawing breath never mind thought - to bang, she is found dead - By LM, not his dog -which has also being showing with the utmost clarity. - None of this search party walked passed this V prior to him going over. It matters not one iota what the dam dog was jumping about at here. It was no where near Jodi - And not only that - the lies that LM told around this, that were never in agreement at any time with this girls family - he had not been some 40ft passed this V

And again - you want us to believe the police plucked this time out of thin air - nonsense and you know. On par with these ridiculous claims that AB drove a couple of hundred yards from the lane, passed this house she looked at for a second - turning it into nearly an hour??  - to ignore all an everything on the basis that AB had said she was not long home, when her husband phoned. - nonsense.

For you are ignoring and air brushing, consistently over - those clear, well founded areas of suspicion brought from LM himself. That there was no tunnel vision - we know who has this, don't we?  - zoned completely on irrelevant matters, wafer thin as you say.

The police had every reason to be suspicious - and we know clearly and precisely why LM could not be eliminated whilst these others could. You can not change the evidence against LM. You do not even want to discuss his own account with rational.

Offline faithlilly

I agree, but how many times has it been posted in the last few days on this very thread?

If there's one thing we've learned from this forum, it's that SL has a book out - even to the extent that we're asked not to buy it from Amazon, as that source doesn't bring Dr Lean top dolla.

We know she's written a book, and we know where we can get hold of a copy if we want one - there's a thread dedicated to it.

Excellent reviews too.

If only there was a book detailing the evidence against Luke to compare.

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Parky41

Of course Sandra Lean has lied

There are different types of lies and of lying

Lies by omission are one

I know - Just making it clear to them?? together. Faithlilly/Lean - around the liable in her book. Of not messing with altering actual evidence - statement wording.

The lies I have seen many times on these forums and quoted some of them.

Offline faithlilly


Absolute rubbish - plucking out of thin air. Smear the family?

You can airbrush this family as much as you care to. I am not smearing them, I am saying it exactly how it was. You want a repeat of this: - ok

CM told the police she arrived home around 5.05pm That this Monday was no different to any other. That Luke was in the kitchen brandishing brocolli, that the dinner was not ready. That LM asked his mother "was Shane home", clearly at this point that he had not been included in the dinner. His brother had not seen him. That they finished dinner. That LM had left around 5.45pm to wait for Jodi arriving around 6. - true? yes it is. Skip the t-shirt, the sunshine and all else.

That within 24hrs SM gave his account. That this day was like any other Monday. That he arrived home at his usual time, around 3.30pm He could not remember what he had for dinner or of seeing his brother.

That after speaking with his mother - he remembered her coming home, at her usual time of around 5.05pm. That he spoke with her. That he then got shouted for dinner some ten mins later. Ate it and went out just after 5.30pm.

That he contacted the police to let them know that he then remembered the above - and it fitted in exactly with CM arriving home at her usual time.

Two statements in less than 36hrs - is this correct? See I do not know everything. But if one was within 24hrs then the change shortly after - I'm doing basic math here.

Then by the Friday - it all changed again. SM had not arrived home at his usual time. Two statements tied to one. That he then did not see his brother still on his arrival home contrary to what Ms Lean changes around, from my post yesterday and her quotes. That CM had not arrived home until 5.15 or just after. That LM had left home no later than 5.30pm

Smearing them, no - clear to see, yes.

And further to this we have to add in more evidence do we not? - Those further claims of no fixed meet. Of phoning the landline, why? - we do not want assumptions made for him - what did he say? As it made no sense to phone if Jodi was not supposed to arrive until 6pm - Such a tangled web all of this. And of course walking this isolated path alone - and of claiming to be waiting until around 7pm to then phone the boys - We are not interested in passing the buck but we shall yet again highlight the Jones household:

That they had lost track of time. Not idling away. Concocted story - no? That they did not know where this meet was to be, they did not know if Luke was late - they knew nothing. Other than what they claimed. That it did not seem that long. That they were not worried and that we know if he had phoned back they would have been alerted/worried. What is blatantly obvious from all we do know - is her parents did not for one moment - think she had been walking to Newbattle on her own. Then they would have had cause to be worried. It could have been the grans, the caravan park anything - see we do not know, do we? But we do know not this path, and not alone - we know there was a ban. What we also know is, that as soon as Jodi's mother realised her daughter had not been with LM - she did not for one moment believe she had simply went elsewhere. She reported her missing in around 10mins. - We can see clearly from this, with pretty much a very fair assumption - that this mother was frantic - she knew something was wrong. And I ask again - did the penny drop, from the earlier call and so forth - we need to see this do we not, rather than these useless areas of 5%- as, as stated, showing more would no doubt show just how much manipulation is going on. We know how it works in a court room - with two sides and fair play.

We know JuJ asked LM when visiting their home that very question - "why did you not call back?" And he said "I thought you had grounded her" - Is this where she became suspicious? Again, those very relevant parts, that context, is always missing.

And we know that this ban, of walking this path alone, of "mucking around up here" - had absolutely no time to be thought of in detail, did it? - ridiculous to attempt to tie this in - From barely one moment to realising her daughter was missing, to barely drawing breath never mind thought - to bang, she is found dead - By LM, not his dog -which has also being showing with the utmost clarity. - None of this search party walked passed this V prior to him going over. It matters not one iota what the dam dog was jumping about at here. It was no where near Jodi - And not only that - the lies that LM told around this, that were never in agreement at any time with this girls family - he had not been some 40ft passed this V

And again - you want us to believe the police plucked this time out of thin air - nonsense and you know. On par with these ridiculous claims that AB drove a couple of hundred yards from the lane, passed this house she looked at for a second - turning it into nearly an hour??  - to ignore all an everything on the basis that AB had said she was not long home, when her husband phoned. - nonsense.

For you are ignoring and air brushing, consistently over - those clear, well founded areas of suspicion brought from LM himself. That there was no tunnel vision - we know who has this, don't we?  - zoned completely on irrelevant matters, wafer thin as you say.

The police had every reason to be suspicious - and we know clearly and precisely why LM could not be eliminated whilst these others could. You can not change the evidence against LM. You do not even want to discuss his own account with rational.

You have shown that you have no more access to information on this case than that which is already in the public domain and have, obviously, based your opinion on that. How do you know that that information is any more credible than that put forward by Dr Lean?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?