The Bambers: Murder at the farm - Sky Crime documentary

[Myster]

I have to say that this doc was has been a bit of a damp squib all round.

It's just a patchwork of talking heads telling their personal stories.  Any one who is no longer alive doesn't get a mention, so no Stan Jones.

And then there's that random Towie reject that pops up every now and then, screeching 'nuffink adds up'.

The timeline of events is all over the place, not helped by the complete omission of all the deceased people (apart from the family). There's no narration to join up the dots, and there is no analysis whatsoever of any of the evidence. A little bit by Malcom Fletcher, but only as part of his personal story.

I thought the model of the house would have been used so that we could see the positions of doors and stairs in relation to the bodies, and the route that the firearms officers took as they entered the building.  It would have been interesting to have seen the view that the firearms officer got as he peered through the window before entering. But, as random Towie reject woman would say....'Nuffink!'
I'm two and a half episodes in, and the only thing I'm wondering about, is whether Brett Collins gets his car cleaned by the end of ep 4. The tension is building.

There's one scene where Brett Collins is washing his car, and he say's 'This is the kind of thing Jeremy wanted', and a big smile washed over his face, then he said 'it's ironic'.  When Bamber sees that, his blood is going to boil!  It was worth it just for that.

The other memorable moment was Brett Collins telling the story about when they were in St Tropez, and he looked Bamber in the eye and asked him straight, 'Did you do it', and Bamber's reply was 'You will not believe what happened'.  Then Brett Collins said that the piercing manner in which Bamber answered meant that was the end of the conversation, no more was allowed to be said on the matter.  It kind of highlights how Bamber manipulates people with his intimidating personality.

So now what I've got to look forward to is Peter Tatchell blathering on about civil rights, without a care in the world about the deceased, or the remaining family of the deceased.

Something along the lines of, but a bit more pro than this, maybe...

https://www.mediafire.com/file/knoicgj1f1a3i94/WHF_through_kitchen_window.mp4/file

[Nicholas]

Excerpts from Julie Mugford’s witness statement dated 8/9th September 1985

Sheet 5
‘I remember that he said that he would use his mother’s sleeping pills to put on the drinks as she was taking them at the time.

Sheet 6
‘During the period of my teaching practice I went to my Doctor who is a Doctor REEVE of New Cross, London. He is the doctor for the college. I went there because I was having a rough time on my teething practice and could not sleep properly. The Doctor asked me if I wanted something to calm me down and he prescribed me some mild tranquillisers. I later took one tablet but didn’t take anymore. The weekend after I got the tablets I went down to Goldhanger and told Jeremy about going to the doctor and I showed him the tablets. I told him I was annoyed with the Doctor because the doctor hadn’t discussed  the problem with me but just prescribed tablets. I showed him the tablets and told him they were big and fat and hard to swallow. Nothing more was said about them and I put the bottle on the microwave in the kitchen.
A few days later Jeremy phoned me at my home and told me that he was going to take some of the pills I had bought him. For some reason or another he had it in his mind that I had bought the pills especially for him so he could 

Sheet 7
‘use them on his parents. This is not true and I had no idea why he should think this. He told me that he was going to take some of the pills to see what effect they had on him and if they tasted in a drink. Although you might find it hard to believe I honestly thought he was living a charade and I didn’t want to believe what he was saying as I didn’t think he would carry his threats out. A few days later I believe it was at the weekend when I went to Goldhanger he told me the pills were useless and didn’t have the desired effect.  ’

Link to Julie Mugford’s police witness statement (8th/9th September 1985) ➡️ http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=284.msg4962#msg4962

Did Bamber use the tablets Julie left on top of the microwave in the kitchen at Goldhanger on the girl at the Chequers public house?

Excerpt from ‘Blood Relations’ by Roger Wilkes

‘Stan Jones leafed through a sheaf of typewritten papers on the table in front of him.  'So,' he said, 'you know Charles Marsden?'  Jeremy said he did.  'He and I were very close a few years ago, and not so close now as I don't really see him that often.'  The detective continued to look through his papers.  'Do you remember me yesterday putting to you that Julie had said that you intended to drug the family and burn the farm down when they were all in it ?  Bamber said he remembered and that Julie was telling lies.  'You see' said Stan Jones, running a finger down one of the statements, 'Charles Marsden also says the same thing.  He says that around Christmas time last year, when all the family, your parents, Sheila and twins were there, you told him that if you burned the house down with all them in it, you'd get everything.  Is he telling lies as well?  Jeremy said he didn't remember discussing the matter with Marsden, and that he concluded that his friend was lying.  Stan Jones put the statement down on the table. ‘Julie's telling lies.' he said, recapping 'and he is telling lies’.  For what reason? 'No comment’.'

[Nicholas]

Mick Ainsley mentioned Julie Mugford and temazepam at some point during the docuseries

His recollection on this story doesn’t fit with Julie’s evidence


Excerpts from Julie Mugford’s witness statement dated 8/9th September 1985

Sheet 5
‘I remember that he said that he would use his mother’s sleeping pills to put on the drinks as she was taking them at the time.

Sheet 6
‘During the period of my teaching practice I went to my Doctor who is a Doctor REEVE of New Cross, London. He is the doctor for the college. I went there because I was having a rough time on my teething practice and could not sleep properly. The Doctor asked me if I wanted something to calm me down and he prescribed me some mild tranquillisers. I later took one tablet but didn’t take anymore. The weekend after I got the tablets I went down to Goldhanger and told Jeremy about going to the doctor and I showed him the tablets. I told him I was annoyed with the Doctor because the doctor hadn’t discussed  the problem with me but just prescribed tablets. I showed him the tablets and told him they were big and fat and hard to swallow. Nothing more was said about them and I put the bottle on the microwave in the kitchen.
A few days later Jeremy phoned me at my home and told me that he was going to take some of the pills I had bought him. For some reason or another he had it in his mind that I had bought the pills especially for him so he could 

Sheet 7
‘use them on his parents. This is not true and I had no idea why he should think this. He told me that he was going to take some of the pills to see what effect they had on him and if they tasted in a drink. Although you might find it hard to believe I honestly thought he was living a charade and I didn’t want to believe what he was saying as I didn’t think he would carry his threats out. A few days later I believe it was at the weekend when I went to Goldhanger he told me the pills were useless and didn’t have the desired effect. I told Jeremy thst I didn’t like him taking about stupid things and I suppose for about 6 weeks up to late November 1984 he did not mention about killing his family.  ’

Link to Julie Mugford’s police witness statement (8th/9th September 1985) ➡️ http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=284.msg4962#msg4962

Someone at Mindhouse TV didn’t carry out their due diligence 

Why did Mindhouse TV choose to include the clip of Mick Ainsley referring to Julie Mugford and ‘temazepam’ which was factually wrong?

’Louis Theroux says there’s “more to” Bamber family case in Murder at the Farm’

Excerpt:
‘Asked whether we could see a second series, he said: “I would say never say never. In the fourth episode, the possibility is raised of a third party, but it’s unlikely that we would do another series. Obviously, there’s a key contributor – Julie Mugford, who was [Jeremy Bamber’s] girlfriend at the time and a linchpin in the case. If she called up and said, ‘I’ve seen the series and I want to give you an interview and break my silence,’ then there might be a conversation to be had. The fact is, there’s still work to the case, but it’s very hard to explain.”
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/documentaries/true-crime/louis-theroux-murder-at-the-farm-bamber-case-newsupdate/

[Myster]

’Louis Theroux says there’s “more to” Bamber family case in Murder at the Farm’
‘Asked whether we could see a second series, he said: “I would say never say never. In the fourth episode, the possibility is raised of a third party, but it’s unlikely that we would do another series. Obviously, there’s a key contributor – Julie Mugford, who was [Jeremy Bamber’s] girlfriend at the time and a linchpin in the case. If she called up and said, ‘I’ve seen the series and I want to give you an interview and break my silence,’ then there might be a conversation to be had. The fact is, there’s still work to the case, but it’s very hard to explain.”
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/documentaries/true-crime/louis-theroux-murder-at-the-farm-bamber-case-newsupdate/

Not a chance in hell that she would get on the blower.

[Nicholas]

Not a chance in hell that she would get on the blower.

Her lawyers might

[Nicholas]

It’s possible Rodney Brown - who appeared in the Sky docuseries - also knew about the fake story involving the Greave sisters (Virginia and Anji)

Rodney Brown said at the beginning of episode 4

“I think he’s been stitched up by everybody”

What about the ‘stitching up’ of the Sun newspaper ?

Other than Brett Collins and Virginia Greaves - How many others from the group of Bamber’s friends knew about the fake news story?

[Nicholas]

So now what I've got to look forward to is Peter Tatchell blathering on about civil rights, without a care in the world about the deceased, or the remaining family of the deceased.

He doesn’t appear to want to consider or take on board the fact psychopathic Bamber duped the police officers in the early hours/days/weeks of their investigation

[Nicholas]

At the beginning of episode 4 of the docuseries David James Smiths recording of Bamber is used

Bamber describes his time in/around 1991

Was this also the time he and Aunt Agatha had photos taken together?

It’s not like that. Seriously.

It wasn’t about sides.  He wanted to protect me as much as possible.  I was his private life and we were given privileges in those days.  We had time alone, had photos taken together...he is not the man you perceive him to be. In fact he’s the opposite.

Did he appear to be losing his ‘marbles’ when you and him were together Aunt Agatha?

You're failing to look at things from the early 90's. I didn't 'campaign' , how were we supposed to find other supporters etc.  No, I was a single supporter and confidant.  That's it!!

I was not his lawyers and I genuinely believed in the justice system then and that this terrible wrong would be righted.

So much so, I waited for a second appeal with him.

You're right to a degree, but the information I received had to come from Justice For All, not Jeremy during the beginning.

They did not have access to everything either.

Therefore, my knowledge from actual case papers was very limited.

I had the basics, yes, but I was not allowed everything.

Things have changed.

Re: ‘Justice For All’ The Manchester McKenzie Organisation ⬇️

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=276.msg4584#msg4584

Referring to 1991 Bamber states,

“That’s when I had my problems”

[Nicholas]

And then there's that random Towie reject that pops up every now and then, screeching 'nuffink adds up'.

I suspect someone at Mindhoise TV will be monitoring feedback

Call me hand
@mindofvanessa
Is she sure????!!!!! Chatting pure shit, she wasn’t even there. Pure projection. Face with tears of joyFace with tears of joyFace with tears of joy

She’s embarrassing herself #thebambers
Image
12:37 AM · Sep 27, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
https://mobile.twitter.com/mindofvanessa/status/1442272039092559879

[Nicholas]

Re: ‘Justice For All’ The Manchester McKenzie Organisation ⬇️

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=276.msg4584#msg4584

I don’t recall anyone mentioning the ‘hacksaw blade’ at all?

Said in 1996 to be one of the ‘main items of evidence in this case’

There’s an interesting paragraph on p.3 on the 1996 letter

The 4th para reads,

‘Clearly, Miss Mugford’s testimony was nothing more than a collection of invented newspaper stories, much of which held no credibility whatsoever and were clearly untrue not only by newspapers and Miss Mugford, but also put forward by her with the collusion of others”

Is this a type of projection of what really happened in relation to Anji Greaves fake news story

[Nicholas]

I'm two and a half episodes in, and the only thing I'm wondering about, is whether Brett Collins gets his car cleaned by the end of ep 4.

Episode 4 is interesting

The Criminal cases review commission are mentioned early on

And the music as various contributors speak to the camera is worth noting too. It’s especially noticeable when David James Smith is talking about people on social media

[Nicholas]

Re: ‘Justice For All’ The Manchester McKenzie Organisation ⬇️

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=276.msg4584#msg4584

In episode 4 David James Smith asks Bamber what he thinks happened.

‘Tell me what you think happened’

Listen to Bamber’s response

Who ‘reconstructed’ what was written in the May 1996 ‘Manchester McKensie’ letter?

[Nicholas]

Episode 4 is interesting

The Criminal cases review commission are mentioned early on

And the music as various contributors speak to the camera is worth noting too. It’s especially noticeable when David James Smith is talking about people on social media

They also get a mention right at the end

[Nicholas]

Did Bamber use the tablets Julie left on top of the microwave in the kitchen at Goldhanger on the girl at the Chequers public house?

Julie said she mixed dates up

What was the exact date she went to see the doctor

And around what date did the girl from the Chequers public house recall feeling ‘shocked, angry and abused’ by Bamber?

According to CAL

‘He and Charles Marsden had spent an evening drinking with the girl at the Chequers. Returning to Bourtree cottage after the pub closed, Charles went to bed while Jeremy and the girl stayed downstairs drinking. She told detectives in 1985 that she had suddenly found herself in Jeremy’s bedroom with him, ‘on top of me having intercourse’. Charles Marsden lay next to them; he recalled waking up to find the couple having sex but both he and the girl confirmed he had taken no part in what was going on.

The following day, the girl wondered whether she had been drugged.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zV3WCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=charles+marsden+essex&source=bl&ots=jQISI3Diw_&sig=ACfU3U1i336DTUwUTlMThBe2M3Xntg_NJA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwil_JK6psXpAhW-QhUIHRPOAwkQ6AEwBHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=charles%20marsden%20essex&f=false

[Nicholas]

Essex news only put out this one snippet from Lottie Gammon on David James Smith and already - from this - lies are being told by omission

Lottie Gammon describes David James Smith as the ‘Sunday times journalist’

No mention of him having been a CCRC* commissioner between 2013 and 2018

Although this fact may get mentioned in the forthcoming docu series

I don’t think it was ever mentioned

Although Mindhouse TV more than likely would have known David James Smith was once a CCRC commissioner