Luke Mitchell - All quiet?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Why not replace the parka before the house was searched? Why wait until the police knew that it was missing? Surely it would have been better to have the parka taken away with the rest of Luke’s clothes than drawing attention to it’s absence?

Why buy the same jacket Luke had allegedly been wearing during the murder? He certainly knew that he’d been seen by several witness so it makes no sense to tie himself to the scene in such a way.

The parka he bought would have had no trace of Jodie’s dna on it so would have potentially absolved him of the crime if he intended to pass it off as the jacket that he had prior to the murder.

[Chris_Halkides]

Has anyone ever claimed that the Mitchells were criminal geniuses?  I mean criminal geniuses don’t usually end up in prison for their first murder do they…?

Someone on this board, possibly MA, suggested that he was forensically aware.  He was forensically examined from head to toes shins, and this did not produce anything.  That would be a remarkable clean up.

[Chris_Halkides]

"Why go all the way to Edinburgh?" Surely not a serious question Chris. I'll let you refresh yourself on some geography and places where he got his tattoo amongst other things. A place he hung out with his mates, his girlfriend also shortly before the murder. Their main town with many suburbs, one of which the Mitchells stayed in. The Capital, teaming with all sorts of shops, namely ones that sold army surplus and the likes.

Tell me Chris, who was there when they arrived home from their shopping trip, checking purchases and receipts? All rather different from one purchased in whatever time frame pre the murder. As stated, something easily gotten rid of in a fire (if still had the receipt for an older purchase) and so much more besides.

I checked, and the distance to Edinburgh is about what I remembered it to be.  There are some clothing shops in Dalkeith.  I suspect that the shops in both cities keep records of purchases, and credit card records may be consulted when appropriate.  Individuals on this board resorted to conjectures to explain the lack of evidence of such a purchase, conjectures that lack evidence. 

IIRC Corinne tried destroying a parka in a log burner and found that metal fittings (presumably zippers, snaps, etc.) remained.  This is the sort of experiment that a competent, objective investigation should have performed.

[Chris_Halkides]

It seems Mitchell supporters have a wide range of alternative perpetrators that they’d prefer to pin this crime on, but they don’t seem overly fussed about who they would prefer was languishing in jail just so long as it’s not darling Luke.

Most people (myself included) want guilty individuals to be punished in a way that is commensurate with their crimes and want innocent individuals to be exonerated.  If Luke Mitchell's conviction were a wrongful one, then a second family was destroyed.

[Joe Blogs]

If I am not mistaken numerous witnesses mentioned that prior to the murder Luke used to wear a knaki coat or jacket closely resembling the parka that he subsequently went out and purchased.  Was this garment ever located and if not why do you think that was?

Yes, there was about nine people who testified to LM owning a parka before the murder, Vertigo, I was refering more to the witnesses on Newbattle Road on the day of the murder however.
Anyway, thinking about it, the parka jacket isn't just part of the LM case, the parka jacket 'IS' the LM case, from the prosecution side anyway.
Without the parka, or to be precise 'murder clothing with DNA linked to the murder scene' beloging to LM there could be no case against him, no case at all!
Lets look at the facts. On the day of the murder Luke Mitchell claimed he wore the same clothing all day, and he was certainly seen at school, by the boys at the Abbey and later on by the search party and police in those clothes.
Therefore, the prosecution case is that LM changed clothing before and after the murder, ie., from school clothes to parka, then back to school clothes. Does this mean the murder was pre-medditated if LM was the killer?
No fit of rage over girl friends then?
No matter!
Anyway, I will ask again, how many who met LM on a regular basis testified that he owned a parka pre-murder?
What about any of the Jones's, the moped boys, Alice Walker, [where Jodi/Luke often met or mucked about I believe] ? Why didn't any of them recall a parka?
Are any of the parka witnesses credible? Mr Ramage certainly wasn't sure, he didn't even get the colour right. The boy in the woods wasn't much cop either.
Anyway, the thing is, if you believe for one moment that the two bike boys who testified that they saw LM standing by Barondale cottages while wearing his Bomber jacket were correct, then you more or less believe in Luke Mitchells innocence!
You see, if the two bike boys saw Luke in his Bomber, then Flem/Walsh, Heatlie, and the o'sullivans almost certainly saw Luke in said Bomber too!
You see,realistically there was no time for Luke to go home and change between any of the sightings on Newbattle Road, hence all the witnesses saw LM in the same clothing, yes?
Hence, if you think the bike boys, who incidentally were the only witnesses on NB Road who knew Luke, did see LM in his Bomber then logically you must have reasonable doubt of his guilt!
It also follows that if the bike boys saw LM in Bomber, then Andrina Bryson saw someone else at the other end of the path in a fishing style jacket, and not Luke!
So, if the bike boys saw LM in Bomber, then the only other guilt scenario available is that LM had already been home and changed after the murder before being seen on Newbattle Road around 5.40 by Flem/Walsh.
Is that possible?
Have you any doubt of Luke's guilt yet, Vertigo?

[Mr Apples]

No, Faith is quite right, Mr Apples.
If the Mitchells were trying to sneakily replace the 'alleged' parka that was destroyed, then it was stupidity to go to a shop where they were known, definately risky.
Why not send Shane into Edinburgh to buy a parka at a random shop somewhere?
Or at least take Luke to a shop where they were unknown.
Far more sensible.
No, you have to admit that the Mitchells didn't act like they cared who knew that they bought a parka that day.

You make some valid points, but I would've thought that there was more of a chance of LM  being noticed in smaller towns and villages that were nearer or within travelling distance to his home in Newbattle (eg, Dalkeith, Newtongrange, Bonnyrigg, Livingston). Surely there was a greater chance of refuge and anonymity in a big city such as Edinburgh? For example, when people go on the run, aren't they more likely to flee to big cities such as London, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool, Leeds, and so on? These big cities offering a better chance of a fugitive not being found, a better chance of integrating without drawing attention to themselves, a better chance of employment, and so on? With a complex circumstantial case such as this one, there will always be supposition, if, buts or maybes, and that to me (and, I suspect, to a lot of people) is very interesting. Anyway, I wouldn't have thought LM, regardless of how regular a customer he was at certain shops in a big city, would have been noticed; shops in big cities have more staff, bigger rotas, more changes in staff, and so on? How does SL know how often LM shopped in Flip? How many visits to a shop constitutes being regarded as a regular customer? The only reason LM was spotted in Flip on 08.07.03 was down to pure chance: a staff member who knew Jodi but didn't know LM other than to look at, spotted him in the shop with CM on 08.07.03. She told her manager (a guy called Colin) and he called the police, and hence why the FLO Michelle Lindsay and police were waiting at the Mitchell family home when they returned from their shopping trip in Edinburgh on 08.07.03; it seems the staffmember who knew Jodi but didn't know LM other than to look at (LM didn't know who she was either) scuppered the Mitchells' insidious plan to replace the old parka with a new one and make out that the new one was the old one and that there only ever was one parka all along. How very crafty, eh? But, by sheer chance and luck, a Flip staff member recognised LM and her evidence was part of the prosecution's circumstantial case that got LM convicted for murder.

And why would the Mitchells hide away and walk on egg shells immediately after the murder? Surely, that would make them appear suspicious? The Mitchells had to act as normal as possible so people would not suspect them of anything, and LM was a psychopath and narcissist, swanning around loving the attention as a murder suspect (literally boasting to his mates that he was a murder suspect) and out partying in night clubs in Edinburgh mere days after the murder with not a care in the world, having new girlfriends within weeks of the murder. The Mitchells were forensically aware and knew that they had destroyed the one item that could tie LM to the murder: the khaki green army parka with German army badges on the sleeves. The Mitchells thought they'd gotten away with murder -- until that very rude awakening on the morning of 14.04.04.

[Mr Apples]

In a YT podcast a few years ago (James English?), CM was asked how she knew for sure LM wasn't the killer and replied that she knows her son and what he's like. Why not say she saw him in the kitchen?

Exactly, KM. Why didn't she say that?

[Parky41]

I checked, and the distance to Edinburgh is about what I remembered it to be.  There are some clothing shops in Dalkeith.  I suspect that the shops in both cities keep records of purchases, and credit card records may be consulted when appropriate.  Individuals on this board resorted to conjectures to explain the lack of evidence of such a purchase, conjectures that lack evidence. 

IIRC Corinne tried destroying a parka in a log burner and found that metal fittings (presumably zippers, snaps, etc.) remained.  This is the sort of experiment that a competent, objective investigation should have performed.

Yes Chris, a short car journey away, little more by bus from Dalkeith/Eskbank. You were applying it as being a strange thing to do, for what reason? Because Dalkeith had shops but you don't know what kind of shops anyway, conjecture indeed. Yet he went up town to make that very purchase after the murder, why? Surely if desperate for clothes Dalkeith would have sufficed, it didn't, what does that tell you? Why did he so desperately need to go to a certain shop to buy that army style coat and army shirt Chris? - But yes, we certainly are all applying some conjecture here, the stark reality is he could have purchased it from anywhere, as stated before, even when off on his holidays. Snowboarding holidays and the like, treated himself even with the sale of his horse, as youngsters do.

You are the one applying there just has to have been proof of that purchase with a big arrow pointing right at him, utter nonsense. I easily counteract that with a cash sale Chris which was far from being an odd thing to do. I applied, 'if' there had been a receipt in the house somewhere, unlikely for some older purchase anyway, easily gotten rid of. All this conjecture, waffle anyway, does not negate the absolute fact that several people testified to him wearing such a garment pre murder, that those were chosen from a selection of more and not stand alone.

Zips and the like. Behave Chris, for goodness sake, its a ridiculous application. One would not be leaving the zips etc behind. They may not have been criminal masterminds but do credit them with some common sense.

[Mr Apples]

Why not replace the parka before the house was searched? Why wait until the police knew that it was missing? Surely it would have been better to have the parka taken away with the rest of Luke’s clothes than drawing attention to it’s absence?

Why buy the same jacket Luke had allegedly been wearing during the murder? He certainly knew that he’d been seen by several witness so it makes no sense to tie himself to the scene in such a way.

I suspect they didn't anticipate the house being searched so quickly. I suspect that, especially during the first few weeks after the murder, the Mitchells would be playing things by ear before they decided what to do next in order to cover their tracks. I think they bought the same parka because LM had been spotted in it often, not just on the day of the murder but before it too.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Someone on this board, possibly MA, suggested that he was forensically aware.  He was forensically examined from head to toes shins, and this did not produce anything.  That would be a remarkable clean up.

You don’t need to be a genius to be forensicsally aware.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I checked, and the distance to Edinburgh is about what I remembered it to be.  There are some clothing shops in Dalkeith.  I suspect that the shops in both cities keep records of purchases, and credit card records may be consulted when appropriate.  Individuals on this board resorted to conjectures to explain the lack of evidence of such a purchase, conjectures that lack evidence. 

IIRC Corinne tried destroying a parka in a log burner and found that metal fittings (presumably zippers, snaps, etc.) remained.  This is the sort of experiment that a competent, objective investigation should have performed.

” I suspect that the shops in both cities keep records of purchases” Isn’t that conjecture?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Most people (myself included) want guilty individuals to be punished in a way that is commensurate with their crimes and want innocent individuals to be exonerated.  If Luke Mitchell's conviction were a wrongful one, then a second family was destroyed.

That’s immaterial to the point I was making.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Yes, there was about nine people who testified to LM owning a parka before the murder, Vertigo, I was refering more to the witnesses on Newbattle Road on the day of the murder however.
Anyway, thinking about it, the parka jacket isn't just part of the LM case, the parka jacket 'IS' the LM case, from the prosecution side anyway.
Without the parka, or to be precise 'murder clothing with DNA linked to the murder scene' beloging to LM there could be no case against him, no case at all!
Lets look at the facts. On the day of the murder Luke Mitchell claimed he wore the same clothing all day, and he was certainly seen at school, by the boys at the Abbey and later on by the search party and police in those clothes.
Therefore, the prosecution case is that LM changed clothing before and after the murder, ie., from school clothes to parka, then back to school clothes. Does this mean the murder was pre-medditated if LM was the killer?
No fit of rage over girl friends then?
No matter!
Anyway, I will ask again, how many who met LM on a regular basis testified that he owned a parka pre-murder?
What about any of the Jones's, the moped boys, Alice Walker, [where Jodi/Luke often met or mucked about I believe] ? Why didn't any of them recall a parka?
Are any of the parka witnesses credible? Mr Ramage certainly wasn't sure, he didn't even get the colour right. The boy in the woods wasn't much cop either.
Anyway, the thing is, if you believe for one moment that the two bike boys who testified that they saw LM standing by Barondale cottages while wearing his Bomber jacket were correct, then you more or less believe in Luke Mitchells innocence!
You see, if the two bike boys saw Luke in his Bomber, then Flem/Walsh, Heatlie, and the o'sullivans almost certainly saw Luke in said Bomber too!
You see,realistically there was no time for Luke to go home and change between any of the sightings on Newbattle Road, hence all the witnesses saw LM in the same clothing, yes?
Hence, if you think the bike boys, who incidentally were the only witnesses on NB Road who knew Luke, did see LM in his Bomber then logically you must have reasonable doubt of his guilt!
It also follows that if the bike boys saw LM in Bomber, then Andrina Bryson saw someone else at the other end of the path in a fishing style jacket, and not Luke!
So, if the bike boys saw LM in Bomber, then the only other guilt scenario available is that LM had already been home and changed after the murder before being seen on Newbattle Road around 5.40 by Flem/Walsh.
Is that possible?
Have you any doubt of Luke's guilt yet, Vertigo?

I’m sorry but I found that virtually impossible to follow, and you lost me when you claimed he changed out of school clothes to parka and back again. 

[Mr Apples]

Someone on this board, possibly MA, suggested that he was forensically aware.  He was forensically examined from head to toes shins, and this did not produce anything.  That would be a remarkable clean up.

He was covered from head to toe in baggy clothing, the army parka with hood covering about 70% of his body. The forensics in this case concluded that Jodi had had her throat slit from behind and that the blood spurted forward, away from the assailant. Therefore, no, LM wouldn't necessarily have been covered in blood like many people erroneously conclude. However, the Mitchells knew that there were likely blood traces from Jodi on that big parka jacket and so had to destroy it. The parka took the brunt of any DNA traces due to its size and volume, so LM would not have had to wash his body at  all. Interestingly, one of the boys he met with at the abbey that night said he was more cleaner and less unkempt than normal, suggesting he had cleaned himself up (their transcript has yet to be uploaded, so it will be interesting to read what exactly they said about LM's appearance that night).

[Joe Blogs]

You make some valid points, but I would've thought that there was more of a chance of LM  being noticed in smaller towns and villages that were nearer or within travelling distance to his home in Newbattle (eg, Dalkeith, Newtongrange, Bonnyrigg, Livingston). Surely there was a greater chance of refuge and anonymity in a big city such as Edinburgh? For example, when people go on the run, aren't they more likely to flee to big cities such as London, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool, Leeds, and so on? These big cities offering a better chance of a fugitive not being found, a better chance of integrating without drawing attention to themselves, a better chance of employment, and so on? With a complex circumstantial case such as this one, there will always be supposition, if, buts or maybes, and that to me (and, I suspect, to a lot of people) is very interesting. Anyway, I wouldn't have thought LM, regardless of how regular a customer he was at certain shops in a big city, would have been noticed; shops in big cities have more staff, bigger rotas, more changes in staff, and so on? How does SL know how often LM shopped in Flip? How many visits to a shop constitutes being regarded as a regular customer? The only reason LM was spotted in Flip on 08.07.03 was down to pure chance: a staff member who knew Jodi but didn't know LM other than to look at, spotted him in the shop with CM on 08.07.03. She told her manager (a guy called Colin) and he called the police, and hence why the FLO Michelle Lindsay and police were waiting at the Mitchell family home when they returned from their shopping trip in Edinburgh on 08.07.03; it seems the staffmember who knew Jodi but didn't know LM other than to look at (LM didn't know who she was either) scuppered the Mitchells' insidious plan to replace the old parka with a new one and make out that the new one was the old one and that there only ever was one parka all along. How very crafty, eh? But, by sheer chance and luck, a Flip staff member recognised LM and her evidence was part of the prosecution's circumstantial case that got LM convicted for murder.

And why would the Mitchells hide away and walk on egg shells immediately after the murder? Surely, that would make them appear suspicious? The Mitchells had to act as normal as possible so people would not suspect them of anything, and LM was a psychopath and narcissist, swanning around loving the attention as a murder suspect (literally boasting to his mates that he was a murder suspect) and out partying in night clubs in Edinburgh mere days after the murder with not a care in the world, having new girlfriends within weeks of the murder. The Mitchells were forensically aware and knew that they had destroyed the one item that could tie LM to the murder: the khaki green army parka with German army badges on the sleeves. The Mitchells thought they'd gotten away with murder -- until that very rude awakening on the morning of 14.04.04.

Yes, a very good informative post again, Mr Apples! But again,mainly speculation as to LM being the killer.