The tracker dogs

[Brietta]

The air scenting seems to have been introduced to the forum 3 years ago by Ferryman in this thread. I don't seem to have found any cites for how SAR dogs work and if they cannot follow trails.

Is it your opinion then that the Portuguese really hadn't a clue about the capabilities of their working dogs?  Do you therefore suppose it was a waste of time deploying them?

[slartibartfast]

Is it your opinion then that the Portuguese really hadn't a clue about the capabilities of their working dogs?  Do you therefore suppose it was a waste of time deploying them?

No, I think they knew there capabilities as tracking dogs and used them appropriately.

[Brietta]

No, I think they knew there capabilities as tracking dogs and used them appropriately.

You can make that assessment without knowing, in detail with cites, what it is SAR dogs do?

[Alice Purjorick]

No, I think they knew there capabilities as tracking dogs and used them appropriately.

Considering SAR, tracker, air scenting ground scenting, call'em wot yer will dawgs have been deployed since the 17th century I am sure there are authoritative "how to manuals" on the subject up to say the end of the 20th century, to give us a cut off date well short of 2007.
I am now having ridiculous thoughts about how some poor old pioneering monk up The Great St Bernard Pass will be held up to ridicule posthumously [advantageous to some as there is no libel of the dead] because he was aware of what would be happening two centuries later and had rigged his results .....

 

[G-Unit]

There are two kinds of search and rescue dogs, I think. Air scenting dogs find human beings in disasters and wildernesses. Tracker dogs follow the track of a specific human being after being given an example of the scent they need to find.
http://www.ussartf.org/dogs_search_rescue.htm

The two dogs used were tracker dogs; nose to the ground types.

[Alice Purjorick]

There are two kinds of search and rescue dogs, I think. Air scenting dogs find human beings in disasters and wildernesses. Tracker dogs follow the track of a specific human being after being given an example of the scent they need to find.
http://www.ussartf.org/dogs_search_rescue.htm

The two dogs used were tracker dogs; nose to the ground types.

Like Flash and Rattler?

[mercury]

There are two kinds of search and rescue dogs, I think. Air scenting dogs find human beings in disasters and wildernesses. Tracker dogs follow the track of a specific human being after being given an example of the scent they need to find.
http://www.ussartf.org/dogs_search_rescue.htm

The two dogs used were tracker dogs; nose to the ground types.

Thats how I understand it
If they were not tracker dogs then it would have been pointless asking for an item with an individual scent to follow

Unless the police do that on the  offchance their nontracking dogs might pick it up
 &%+((£

[ferryman]

There are two kinds of search and rescue dogs, I think. Air scenting dogs find human beings in disasters and wildernesses. Tracker dogs follow the track of a specific human being after being given an example of the scent they need to find.
http://www.ussartf.org/dogs_search_rescue.htm

The two dogs used were tracker dogs; nose to the ground types.

There is one type of search-and-rescue dog, the air-scenting type that track the generic human scent.

Mark Harrison said that the Portuguese supported their search for Madeleine with air-scenting dogs because that's what the Portuguese did.

[G-Unit]

There is one type of search-and-rescue dog, the air-scenting type that track the generic human scent.

Mark Harrison said that the Portuguese supported their search for Madeleine with air-scenting dogs because that's what the Portuguese did.

Both types were used. The air scenting dogs were used to search the surrounding area, the beach, etc. They were not given anything to sniff. Rex and Zarus, the tracker dogs, were given an article to sniff and set to work at the apartment.

At about 23.00 the extra teams that had been requested for reinforcement arrived (Officer Rosa with Oscar and Officer Martins with Fusco, both from the search and rescue unit and Officer Fernandes with Rex and Zarus from the tracking team)....After the officers had been updated about facts relating to the disappearance, they tried to reconstruct the route the girl might have taken with the two tracker dogs. For this purpose the dogs were given a blanket to sniff, provided by the parents, which had been used by Madeleine.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm

[ferryman]

Both types were used. The air scenting dogs were used to search the surrounding area, the beach, etc. They were not given anything to sniff. Rex and Zarus, the tracker dogs, were given an article to sniff and set to work at the apartment.

At about 23.00 the extra teams that had been requested for reinforcement arrived (Officer Rosa with Oscar and Officer Martins with Fusco, both from the search and rescue unit and Officer Fernandes with Rex and Zarus from the tracking team)....After the officers had been updated about facts relating to the disappearance, they tried to reconstruct the route the girl might have taken with the two tracker dogs. For this purpose the dogs were given a blanket to sniff, provided by the parents, which had been used by Madeleine.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm

The Portuguese don't have ground-scenting dogs (of the type that track the unique human scent).

We've been through all this.

[G-Unit]

The Portuguese don't have ground-scenting dogs (of the type that track the unique human scent).

We've been through all this.

Present your evidence supporting your assertion then.

[ferryman]

Present your evidence supporting your assertion then.

I have done so countless times.  They debated about whether it was worth presenting the dog with something of Madeleine's to sniff, a clearly redundant conversation if these were ground-scenting dogs (ground-scenting dogs can't work any other way).

And Mark Harrison said the searches were supported with air-scenting dogs because that's what happened.

[Brietta]

The Portuguese don't have ground-scenting dogs (of the type that track the unique human scent).

We've been through all this.

That is correct, Ferryman.

They do have specialist Search And Rescue dogs and they deployed them.  The GNR dogs were a stop gap.
Considering the amount of ground covered by the SAR dogs, I think if Madeleine had been there to be found she would have been

7. At 01.00 after the group commander had been briefed about the situation, telephone contact was made with an official from the Queluz GNR school, with the aim of their releasing search and rescue dog teams, seeing as these are specially trained to find missing persons, which is not the case with the Portimao sniffer dogs, which are essentially patrol dogs.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6311.msg255201#msg255201

[G-Unit]

I have done so countless times.  They debated about whether it was worth presenting the dog with something of Madeleine's to sniff, a clearly redundant conversation if these were ground-scenting dogs (ground-scenting dogs can't work any other way).

And Mark Harrison said the searches were supported with air-scenting dogs because that's what happened.

If you have done so countless times the supporting evidence should be easy to find and to post. I have not seen a cite for the debate, so that would be useful too. Mark Harrison was correct, air scenting dogs were used, but only on the general searches, not at the apartment.

[G-Unit]

deleted

I'm asking for evidence to support your assertions as per forum etiquette. If you have none why not just admit it instead of resorting to abuse?

Here, for the record, is my evidence;

All the dogs were GNR dogs;

At 01.00 after the group commander had been briefed about the situation, telephone contact was made with an official from the Queluz GNR school, with the aim of their releasing search and rescue dog teams, seeing as these are specially trained to find missing persons, which is not the case with the Portimao sniffer dogs, which are essentially patrol dogs.

These dogs and handlers came from Queluz ;

Sargeant Silva - Dog: Timmy
Officer Cortez - Dog: Sacha
Officer Sousa - Dog: Kolly/Cookie
Officer Rosa - Dog: Oscar
Officer Martins - Dog: Fusco
Officer Fernandes - Dog: Rex/ Zarus

Some of them were informed by the parents where Madeleine had been in the preceding days [no request for clothing to sniff, these are dogs which search for people in general]

After this, at about 08.00 the three search and rescue sniffer dog teams (Silva with Timmy, Cortez with Sacha and Sousa with Kolly and Cookie) who had arrived at the site, began searching, leaving the resort in the direction of the beach.

At about 23.00 the extra teams that had been requested for reinforcement arrived (Officer Rosa with Oscar and Officer Martins with Fusco, both from the search and rescue unit and Officer Fernandes with Rex and Zarus from the tracking team).

Now there is sniffing of belongings because there are tracker dogs; Rex and Zarus;

For this purpose the dogs were given a blanket to sniff, provided by the parents, which had been used by Madeleine.......
Beginning to follow the track using Rex..... another attempt at reconstruction was made using the dog Zarus,

Only the two tracker dogs sniffed the item belonging to Madeleine.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm