The tracker dogs

[G-Unit]

As they couldn't lock the patio door from the outside I assumed they all left by the main door of 5a, accessing the car park at the front, walked around the block and down the road in order to gain access via mini reception to the grounds and the twins club beyond.  After leaving the twins off at their club, retracing their steps and going out via mini reception, across the road towards main reception and Madeleine's club which was located on the floor above it.

Didn't the GNR tracker dogs follow this route too?

It seems they left by the front door sometimes, when I assume they would follow the same route as their friends; turn right out of the car park then right again at the T Junction and down Rua Martins to the Tapas entrance. They used the path later after they moved into block 4 because it made sense then, it cut the corner off.

[Robittybob1]

The patrol dogs would have been used initially simply to search for human scent in out of the way places like down dry culverts, in abandoned buildings and gardens and on rough ground surrounding the town. The second lot of dogs from the GNR school could track a scent regardless of whether it was ground or air borne.  To do this they required a target scent thus why the officers asked for something belonging to the missing child.

OK you use the term "patrol dogs" for the ones working off leash the "air scenting dogs".  Looking for human smell in general, so that would not mean much in areas where many people had obviously been in the last day or so.

[Robittybob1]

I've found (I think) what I was looking for G-Unit.

Snip
Then it gets silly. They turned left again and headed towards the road. At the road they turned left again, and headed towards the T Junction. They then crossed the road to the wall of Block 6, turned right and headed towards the car park south of Block 6. It's unlikely that Madeleine or an abductor took that route. I wonder what the dogs were following? What a shame they can't talk
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1620.msg306176#msg306176

The dog headed left UP the hill to the main road, where it crossed the road. Both handlers stated that.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1620.msg306233#msg306233

I have looked closely at the dog handler's statement, and there is actually a mistranslation. The dogs turned left after exiting the alleyway. I have posted about it previously, I'll try to find it later.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1620.msg306234#msg306234

Yes "fechada" obviously here means "locked".
So the scent trail of a missing child is tracked by one dog to the outer door of that reception building, and that tracking is then abandoned, just because the door was locked, so the dog is unable to continue tracking!
And so the dog team never finds out whether the child had entered that door, whether the child then also went through the inner door, whether the child continued into the pools area. If I was the officer in charge I would have urgently requested a key.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1620.msg306759#msg306759

Maybe I went too far in stating 'agreement' ... but that was how I remembered it.  If it is correct that the dogs turned left and uphill before turning right and progressing down hill ... it makes the illustration of the route they followed inaccurate.
Similarly if one also progressed to the door of reception and the tapas area.

It gets to the heart of my theory if the tracker dogs come up to the door of the secondary reception and it is not opened.  Are they bluffed off by a staff member saying "that door has been locked all night she can't be through there".  Some staff have keys, and staff members had been in the kids bedroom when there were few people in the apartment.
1.  If we are not sure who we are tracking (unsure whether it was Madeleine or not).
2.  And it leads to a reception door
3.  And the door is not opened by OC staff.
4.  Could that point to at least the possibility of the OC staff being involved in the concealment of the person the dogs were tracking (regardless of whether it was Madeleine or not)?

[ShiningInLuz]

It gets to the heart of my theory if the tracker dogs come up to the door of the secondary reception and it is not opened.  Are they bluffed off by a staff member saying "that door has been locked all night she can't be through there".  Some staff have keys, and staff members had been in the kids bedroom when there were few people in the apartment.
1.  If we are not sure who we are tracking (unsure whether it was Madeleine or not).
2.  And it leads to a reception door
3.  And the door is not opened by OC staff.
4.  Could that point to at least the possibility of the OC staff being involved in the concealment of the person the dogs were tracking (regardless of whether it was Madeleine or not)?

You are pushing the libel test to its limit, or beyond.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the GNR asked for the key, there is no evidence whatsoever that OC staff denied them a key, and there is no evidence whatsoever that OC staff said the Tapas area had been closed all night.

You cannot malign 'OC staff' when you have no evidence to do so.

The simplest explanation is that the GNR officers did not request a key.  I would assume the officers would have got a key if they knew where 24hr reception was, but as to why a dog handling team would know that is beyond me.

[John]

OK you use the term "patrol dogs" for the ones working off leash the "air scenting dogs".  Looking for human smell in general, so that would not mean much in areas where many people had obviously been in the last day or so.

That's right, that's why I wrote 'out of the way places' ie where people seldom go.  They would have been looking for signs of a person, dead or alive.

[John]

It gets to the heart of my theory if the tracker dogs come up to the door of the secondary reception and it is not opened.  Are they bluffed off by a staff member saying "that door has been locked all night she can't be through there".  Some staff have keys, and staff members had been in the kids bedroom when there were few people in the apartment.
1.  If we are not sure who we are tracking (unsure whether it was Madeleine or not).
2.  And it leads to a reception door
3.  And the door is not opened by OC staff.
4.  Could that point to at least the possibility of the OC staff being involved in the concealment of the person the dogs were tracking (regardless of whether it was Madeleine or not)?

Careful!  One member is already serving a temporary ban for knowingly and repeatedly posting defamatory claims.

[sadie]

You are pushing the libel test to its limit, or beyond.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the GNR asked for the key, there is no evidence whatsoever that OC staff denied them a key, and there is no evidence whatsoever that OC staff said the Tapas area had been closed all night.

You cannot malign 'OC staff' when you have no evidence to do so.

The simplest explanation is that the GNR officers did not request a key.  I would assume the officers would have got a key if they knew where 24hr reception was, but as to why a dog handling team would know that is beyond me.

There were people around.  Perhaps they should have asked ... and done the job properly .

[G-Unit]

OK you use the term "patrol dogs" for the ones working off leash the "air scenting dogs".  Looking for human smell in general, so that would not mean much in areas where many people had obviously been in the last day or so.

Had the child wandered off she could have been under a bush, down a well or in an abandoned building. The air scenting dogs were used in those kinds of areas mostly.

[ShiningInLuz]

There were people around.  Perhaps they should have asked ... and done the job properly .

My post was to get Robbity to cease and desist with a string of accusatory posts completely unsupported by evidence.

The dogs in the file as tracker dogs were deployed late overnight on 4/5 May i.e. perhaps 24 hours or more after Madeleine disappeared.

As to who was around at that time, the only person, with probable access to keys, I can think of is OC 24hr reception.

This is not about whether the GNR officers should have hunted down keys (multiple) to the Tapas reception, the Tapas restaurant and Bar etc.

If you can say who these other people were, it would be a step forward.

[John]

I'm quite sure there would have been staff there at all times so soon after the disappearance to open locked doors etc.  If the GNR didn't search an area obviously they saw no point in doing so.

[Robittybob1]

I'm quite sure there would have been staff there at all times so soon after the disappearance to open locked doors etc.

And from their statements they were there till very late.  We could get their actual words.
 

[John]

And from their statements they were there till very late.  We could get their actual words.

24-Hour Reception had access at all times to every part of OC.

[Robittybob1]

24-Hour Reception had access at all times to every part of OC.

Here we are talking about the secondary reception, and I know there were staff with keys for the purpose of opening up buildings.

[G-Unit]

There were people around.  Perhaps they should have asked ... and done the job properly .

Were there? After 11pm on 4th?

[Robittybob1]

Were there? After 11pm on 4th?

Some stayed right through to about 7:00AM next morning