Eddie's alert in the garden

[Mr Gray]

That's one of your celestial teapot arguments. You have made a statement with no backing evidence and challenging others to disprove it.

I have supplied evidence. We have one paper on the  net that states that remnant scent can last for up to 12 months in a closed building...evidence
the dogs detect  airborne molecules...fact
airborne molecules dissipate...fact... not so quickly in a closed room...fact
if we want to get rid of a smell we open a window to increase the rate of dissipation...fact
in an open enviroment  with wind and rain the molecules would dissipate quicker...fact

so would their be anything left after 3 months.....I would say no and that is the only unknown

[slartibartfast]

I have supplied evidence. We have one paper on the  net that states that remnant scent can last for up to 12 months in a closed building...evidence
the dogs detect  airborne molecules...fact
airborne molecules dissipate...fact... not so quickly in a closed room...fact
if we want to get rid of a smell we open a window to increase the rate of dissipation...fact
in an open enviroment  with wind and rain the molecules would dissipate quicker...fact

so would their be anything left after 3 months.....I would say no and that is the only unknown

An sheltered garden.

[Mr Gray]

An sheltered garden.

oh dear.......if that is the best response you can come up with I rest my case

[stephen25000]

I have supplied evidence. We have one paper on the  net that states that remnant scent can last for up to 12 months in a closed building...evidence
the dogs detect  airborne molecules...fact
airborne molecules dissipate...fact... not so quickly in a closed room...fact
if we want to get rid of a smell we open a window to increase the rate of dissipation...fact
in an open enviroment  with wind and rain the molecules would dissipate quicker...fact

so would their be anything left after 3 months.....I would say no and that is the only unknown

There was an alert in the garden.

The olfactory organs of dogs are incredibly sensitive (125 to 300 million olfactory receptors compared to humans 5 million receptors, beagles have 225 million by the way), and able to detect the presence of even small numbers of molecules.

and for those who like cites..

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/understanding-a-dogs-sense-of-smell.html

You have not proved one iota, any residual scent would have dispersed after the period elapsed.

Why are you trying so hard to say otherwise ?  &%+((£

[Mr Gray]

There was an alert in the garden.

The olfactory organs of dogs are incredibly sensitive (125 to 300 million olfactory receptors compared to humans 5 million receptors, beagles have 225 million by the way), and able to detect the presence of even small numbers of molecules.

and for those who like cites..

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/understanding-a-dogs-sense-of-smell.html

You have not proved one iota, any residual scent would have dispersed after the period elapsed.

Why are you trying so hard to say otherwise ?  &%+((£

what is more important is the actual number of molecules deposited to cause the residual scent and the rate of dispersion of these molecules....you have not addressed any points I have raised. It doesn't matter how many receptors the dogs have if there is nothing left to detect and we know for a fact residual scent dissipates

[stephen25000]

what is more important is the actual number of molecules deposited to cause the residual scent and the rate of dispersion of these molecules....you have not addressed any points I have raised. It doesn't matter how many receptors the dogs have if there is nothing left to detect and we know for a fact residual scent dissipates

I know full well the scent would dissipate, I never said it wouldn't. You have not proved one iota it had totally dispersed in the area alerted to.

[Mr Gray]

I know full well the scent would dissipate, I never said it wouldn't. You have not proved one iota it had totally dispersed in the area alerted to.

If remnant scent lasts 12 months in a closed building how long do you think it would last in an a garden open to the elements

[John]

Davel and Stephen.  The personal comments cease now TY.

Moderators please note!

[pathfinder73]

Who thinks it's strange fibres were discovered on the wall next to the climbing plant where Eddie indicated? Wonder if if they were from a long sleeved top which the Smiths saw  &%+((£

"Subsequently, as previously determined, there proceeded the collection of various hairs from the ground of the pathway in the garden area next to the window of the couple's bedroom, they having been encased in a paper package referenced as trace evidence number 25.

After the above there proceeded the collection of several branches of the climbing plant in the garden they having been encased in a paper package referenced as trace evidence number 21 and of possible fibres on a wall of the apartment garden, next to the climbing plant, using six Crystal-Tabs appropriate for this they having been referenced as trace evidence number 26."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_EDDIE-KEELA.htm

Remember that the window of the couple's bedroom is also a door where you can enter and exit the apartment quickly!

p.s. all bags and clothes dumped in bins that night should have been kept for possible future evidence.

[Brietta]

Who thinks it's strange fibres were discovered on the wall next to the climbing plant where Eddie indicated? Wonder if if they were from a long sleeved top which the Smiths saw  &%+((£

"Subsequently, as previously determined, there proceeded the collection of various hairs from the ground of the pathway in the garden area next to the window of the couple's bedroom, they having been encased in a paper package referenced as trace evidence number 25.

After the above there proceeded the collection of several branches of the climbing plant in the garden they having been encased in a paper package referenced as trace evidence number 21 and of possible fibres on a wall of the apartment garden, next to the climbing plant, using six Crystal-Tabs appropriate for this they having been referenced as trace evidence number 26."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_EDDIE-KEELA.htm

Remember that the window of the couple's bedroom is also a door where you can enter and exit the apartment quickly!

p.s. all bags and clothes dumped in bins that night should have been kept for possible future evidence.

What was the point I wonder of taking foliage from a climbing plant?

Plants and trees take in nutrients from decomposing flesh ... as you yourself posted about the dog alerting to the branches of the tree where 'cadaver soup' had been discarded by the handler some time previously ... so unless any body had lain there and decomposed, the foliage from the plant could have told them nothing.

I would be of the opinion that was not an action advised by Martin Grime to be carried out because it  shows a basic misunderstanding of the scent intelligence they were looking for.

No mention of whatever it was that was removed from the garden ... any ideas on that?

[pegasus]

What was the point I wonder of taking foliage from a climbing plant? (snip)

IMO the hypothesis was of a fall over the railing into the climbing plant.
Samples of the branches of the climbing plant branches were taken to look for blood resulting from a fall into the plant.
Also samples of pink and white fibres were taken from the wall behind the climbing plant, to compare with fibres from that manufacture of pyjamas.
No rocket science degree is needed to realise the risk of a child on a balcony climbing and falling over a railing.
In fact there was a sign in apartment 5A warning about exactly this risk

[Brietta]

IMO the hypothesis was of a fall over the railing into the climbing plant.
Samples of the branches of the climbing plant branches were taken to look for blood resulting from a fall into the plant.
Also samples of pink and white fibres were taken from the wall behind the climbing plant, to compare with fibres from that manufacture of pyjamas.
No rocket science degree is needed to realise the risk of a child on a balcony climbing and falling over a railing.
In fact there was a sign in apartment 5A warning about exactly this risk

Keela would have told them immediately if there was any blood scent there ... they only had to deploy her.

Had she alerted ... it would then have been appropriate to take the whole plant to ascertain whose blood it might be.

Did the fibres match the fibres of the M&S pyjamas sourced by the PJ?  No?

Therefore there was absolutely no evidence that Madeleine had tumbled over the balcony and was injured or killed as a result.

[Alice Purjorick]

6^1  5^2  4^3  3^4  2^5
Next must be 1^6
The answer is 1 Davel, which brings us back on topic because that is the number of alerts in the garden.

I like your style Peggy 

There was this bloke named Matthew Zarella who used dogs to find MIAs in VietNam.
He had some interesting things to to say about scent and how long it lasted. Another geezer named Andy Rebmann who wrote extensively on the topic did too.

[pegasus]

Keela would have told them immediately if there was any blood scent there ... they only had to deploy her.

Had she alerted ... it would then have been appropriate to take the whole plant to ascertain whose blood it might be.

Did the fibres match the fibres of the M&S pyjamas sourced by the PJ?  No?

Therefore there was absolutely no evidence that Madeleine had tumbled over the balcony and was injured or killed as a result.

Keela cannot deploy aerially half way up inside a climbing plant.
There were various pink and white (natural and synthetic) clothing fibres on the wall behind the climbing plant.
IMO the fibre forensics were inconclusive.
Also there were two slightly different designs of these pjs IMO which might hypothetically include different fibre types.

[pathfinder73]

What was the point I wonder of taking foliage from a climbing plant?

Plants and trees take in nutrients from decomposing flesh ... as you yourself posted about the dog alerting to the branches of the tree where 'cadaver soup' had been discarded by the handler some time previously ... so unless any body had lain there and decomposed, the foliage from the plant could have told them nothing.

I would be of the opinion that was not an action advised by Martin Grime to be carried out because it  shows a basic misunderstanding of the scent intelligence they were looking for.

No mention of whatever it was that was removed from the garden ... any ideas on that?

To my understanding they collected broken branches. Probably wondering the reason why they had broken off the climbing plant. Detective work needs to follow up this lead after Eddie was most interested in that area.