Who were the witnesses who saw a man loitering near the McCann's apartment ?

[The General]

I accept PF seems an unlikely candidate but I would apply the same checks right across the board without any exception whatsoever. 

Consider money laundering regulations everyone is treated equally and needs to provide the same evidence regardless of longevity, opportunity, access, status, suspicion. 

Consider checks at airports.  Would it be right to single out men of middle eastern appearance thus potentially overlooking a female Scandinavian right wing extremist with evil intent?

But they're not suspects, they're witnesses and will be processed accordingly. If one of them pops out for any reason, then they'll dig a bit deeper. Why would they delve in to the minutiae of the movements of the dude who empties the bins if he wasn't deemed to be a red flag?

[The General]

It isn't without reason.  I'm not suggesting every car in Portugal or even PDL needed to be tested just those who a) had access to a vehicle and b) were in close proximity to 5A and/or McCanns.

All of what I have suggested is desk based other than forensically testing cars. 

It would have been far more efficient and economical to nip all this in the bud up front.

It may have been.We don't know. If you think they would have blithely taken witness statements and accepted all of them as true and fair reflections, then I believe you may be mistaken. They followed up 1,000's of leads, why would they cast aside the testimony of the people involved?
For example, they certainly didn't take the T7 statements at face value - they put them alongside each other and decided upon incongruity, based on answers to the questions and the 'timeline'.

[ShiningInLuz]

Afaik the role of FLO is to keep the family updated on how the investigation is going and act as a go-between for investigating authorities and victims/family?

Thanks but I can't see any evidence that British police carried out any background checks on individuals?  And why would they have done so in 2007/08 when it wasn't their investigation?  They would surely only have done this at the request of PJ and there's nothing in files released to public in 2008 to indicate this was requested?

For example with PF's niece and husband I would like to have seen some corroboration of the testimony:

- Checks on passports to confirm arrived and departed in Portugal on dates given
- Checks on passports to confirm lifestyle in terms of business/leisure travel
- Checks with hire car firm to confirm car hired on dates given.  Forensic checks on hire car.
- Checks with hotel to confirm arrived and departed on dates given (and if possible confirm arrived back on 3rd May at circa 8.30 pm as claimed)
- Checks on bank accounts to confirm employment and living at address given by way of payment for utility bills

All of the above could rule someone in or out.  As it stands we have two individuals who were in very close proximity to 5A and the McCanns on 29th Apr and 3rd May (it seems all of the aforementioned were on their respective balconies around lunchtime) who we know absolutely nothing about. 

Everyone, however unlikely they may seem on paper, needed to go under the microscope.  Often the perps of child abuse slip under the radar based on nothing other than perception alone eg clergy and Savile.

My passport shows quite clearly that I have never left the UK.

Even as I type from near to Luz.

Perhaps I am but a figment of my own imagination?

[G-Unit]

It isn't without reason.  I'm not suggesting every car in Portugal or even PDL needed to be tested just those who a) had access to a vehicle and b) were in close proximity to 5A and/or McCanns.

All of what I have suggested is desk based other than forensically testing cars. 

It would have been far more efficient and economical to nip all this in the bud up front.

So just for starters the cars hired by Raj Balu, Neil Berry, Julian Totman, the Reaps, the Hynds, the Janczurs, the Thornhills, the Weinburgers and the Gorrods should have been 'forensically tested'?

Then we have Mrs Fenn's car, the couple who left Block 6 at 10pm, the maintenance man who drove past 5A, the chef who did the same, and no doubt various others whose cars were around 5A that evening.

What exactly does 'forensic testing' of a car involve anyway?

[Holly Goodhead]

My passport shows quite clearly that I have never left the UK.

Even as I type from near to Luz.

Perhaps I am but a figment of my own imagination?

I think you might find the authorities can very easily and quickly at the touch of a few buttons determine who went where and when from a passport.

[Holly Goodhead]

So just for starters the cars hired by Raj Balu, Neil Berry, Julian Totman, the Reaps, the Hynds, the Janczurs, the Thornhills, the Weinburgers and the Gorrods should have been 'forensically tested'?

Then we have Mrs Fenn's car, the couple who left Block 6 at 10pm, the maintenance man who drove past 5A, the chef who did the same, and no doubt various others whose cars were around 5A that evening.

What exactly does 'forensic testing' of a car involve anyway?

Yes of course.  Why and what have OG spent some 13 million on?

[Holly Goodhead]

It may have been.We don't know. If you think they would have blithely taken witness statements and accepted all of them as true and fair reflections, then I believe you may be mistaken. They followed up 1,000's of leads, why would they cast aside the testimony of the people involved?
For example, they certainly didn't take the T7 statements at face value - they put them alongside each other and decided upon incongruity, based on answers to the questions and the 'timeline'.

Exactly we know PJ made various background checks on McCanns as evidenced by PJ files but where's the evidence they carried out similar checks on others?

[The General]

Exactly we know PJ made various background checks on McCanns as evidenced by PJ files but where's the evidence they carried out similar checks on others?

Wheat and chaff. The others would have been filtered out, probably semi-informally, through the process - rightly or wrongly, depending on your leaning. They developed Persons of Interest. Then they developed Arguidi (I just made up the Portuguese plural of Arguido for them).

[barrier]

Yes of course.  Why and what have OG spent some 13 million on?

Now that is a question.

[G-Unit]

Yes of course.  Why and what have OG spent some 13 million on?

Not on that imo.

[ShiningInLuz]

I think you might find the authorities can very easily and quickly at the touch of a few buttons determine who went where and when from a passport.

Whereas I think you have been watching too many fictional crime films.

[Brietta]

Exactly we know PJ made various background checks on McCanns as evidenced by PJ files but where's the evidence they carried out similar checks on others?

Then what method did they use to eliminate people from the inquiry?

[G-Unit]

Exactly we know PJ made various background checks on McCanns as evidenced by PJ files but where's the evidence they carried out similar checks on others?

We know that the PJ attempted to make background checks on the McCanns, but were they successful? They never got Madeleine's medical records and they never got details of expenditure on the couple's credit cards. What else did they request/get?

[Robittybob1]

thats a point ive raised before ...holly cannot claim to have solved the case.

Some witnesses could easily be deceased by now.

[John]

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