The dreaded cadaver scent

[DCI]

Yet Grime, who had left South Yorkshire police in July 2007 and was selling his dogs' services through his private business

Isn't there an argument somewhere on one of these threads about whether or not Grime was still a serving a police officer when he went to Portugal?  Seems that the no's have it ....

That quote (from The Mail) is wrong, CG.

SYP confirmed in a FOI answer that Grime retired in August.

So let's get this straight then.  It would have been South Yorkshire Police whom the Portuguese would have had to pay for services rendered and not the serving constable Grime?

Don't know if you read my post on page1, of this thread, John.

Until his last day of service, the daily cost of hiring Eddie was just £10. And no documention confirming this apparent trip was ever received by SYP.

[ferryman]

Yet Grime, who had left South Yorkshire police in July 2007 and was selling his dogs' services through his private business

Isn't there an argument somewhere on one of these threads about whether or not Grime was still a serving a police officer when he went to Portugal?  Seems that the no's have it ....

That quote (from The Mail) is wrong, CG.

SYP confirmed in a FOI answer that Grime retired in August.

So let's get this straight then.  It would have been South Yorkshire Police whom the Portuguese would have had to pay for services rendered and not the serving constable Grime?

Well, not necessarily, John.

Grime could have taken annual leave leading up to retirement, been given immediate custody of the dogs, and put in a spot of freelancing work while on annual leave ...

[ferryman]

Yet Grime, who had left South Yorkshire police in July 2007 and was selling his dogs' services through his private business

Isn't there an argument somewhere on one of these threads about whether or not Grime was still a serving a police officer when he went to Portugal?  Seems that the no's have it ....

That quote (from The Mail) is wrong, CG.

SYP confirmed in a FOI answer that Grime retired in August.

So let's get this straight then.  It would have been South Yorkshire Police whom the Portuguese would have had to pay for services rendered and not the serving constable Grime?

Don't know if you read my post on page1, of this thread, John.

Until his last day of service, the daily cost of hiring Eddie was just £10. And no documention confirming this apparent trip was ever received by SYP.

Sadly that point can't now, be verified because SYP have pulled all their answers.

But one of them gave a detailed breakdown of the costs of hiring the dog.

The bulk of the cost is based on the salary and national insurance contribution of the handler.

Then there was a bit thrown in for travel and an additional, separate, fee for the hire of the dog, which was £10.

[Carana]

Yet Grime, who had left South Yorkshire police in July 2007 and was selling his dogs' services through his private business

Isn't there an argument somewhere on one of these threads about whether or not Grime was still a serving a police officer when he went to Portugal?  Seems that the no's have it ....

That quote (from The Mail) is wrong, CG.

SYP confirmed in a FOI answer that Grime retired in August.

So let's get this straight then.  It would have been South Yorkshire Police whom the Portuguese would have had to pay for services rendered and not the serving constable Grime?

Well, not necessarily, John.

Grime could have taken annual leave leading up to retirement, been given immediate custody of the dogs, and put in a spot of freelancing work while on annual leave ...

I agree with FM. We don't know that this was the case, but it's fairly common practice when changing from one employment situation to another.

[Redblossom]

The bulk of the cost is based on the salary and national insurance contribution of the handler.

***

The cost of the dogs in PDL as stated by Mr Harrison was 1000 a day, are you sayng Grime was on c360k a year? LOL, how stupid does that sound

[Redblossom]

This thread has gone dreadfully off topic. There are plenty other ones to bash Mr Grime, the dogs and Mr Amaral, see any of Ferrymans threads.

Carana,there were no human remains in 5a, so that was not the reason Mr Harrison recommended sending the dog in, three months later.

You might consider it bashing Redblossom as is your prerogative but why shouldn't they attract criticism?  After all they both failed miserably to prove anything and one was even forced to resign from the police force in disgrace before he was kicked out having been convicted of a criminal offence by his peers.

You can criticise them all you like but on the proper threads specifically designed for it and there are plenty of them about,I asked a very very specific question and it has descended, very predictably of course, into a Grime is a conman, liar, fraudster fest,  its pathetic at best

PS Mr Grimes job is not to prove anything, neither was Amarals, its the courts who try to do that

And Amaral was taken off the Madeleine case in Oct 07, and worked until June 08 in another dept,after which he resigned of his own accord, he was not kicked out by anyone and his conviction was not until 2009

Are you sure that that is entirely accurate?

Which bit, as if it matters, is not accurate to you

[Redblossom]

This thread has gone dreadfully off topic. There are plenty other ones to bash Mr Grime, the dogs and Mr Amaral, see any of Ferrymans threads.

Carana,there were no human remains in 5a, so that was not the reason Mr Harrison recommended sending the dog in, three months later.

You might consider it bashing Redblossom as is your prerogative but why shouldn't they attract criticism?  After all they both failed miserably to prove anything and one was even forced to resign from the police force in disgrace before he was kicked out having been convicted of a criminal offence by his peers.

You can criticise them all you like but on the proper threads specifically designed for it and there are plenty of them about,I asked a very very specific question and it has descended, very predictably of course, into a Grime is a conman, liar, fraudster fest,  its pathetic at best

PS Mr Grimes job is not to prove anything, neither was Amarals, its the courts who try to do that

And Amaral was taken off the Madeleine case in Oct 07, and worked until June 08 in another dept,after which he resigned of his own accord, he was not kicked out by anyone and his conviction was not until 2009

Get a grip Redblossom and please read my post properly.  Amaral had nowhere to go after his stupid claims against the McCanns.  He was humiliated when he was removed from his job as coordinator by his superiors and he knew that if he didn't resign he would be kicked out and lose his pension. He wasn't prepared to take that risk.

Now he is going to be humiliated all over again when he is forced to settle the civil suit brought against him by the McCanns.

Well you can gloat if and when that happens then John

[registrar]

This thread has gone dreadfully off topic. There are plenty other ones to bash Mr Grime, the dogs and Mr Amaral, see any of Ferrymans threads.

Carana,there were no human remains in 5a, so that was not the reason Mr Harrison recommended sending the dog in, three months later.

You might consider it bashing Redblossom as is your prerogative but why shouldn't they attract criticism?  After all they both failed miserably to prove anything and one was even forced to resign from the police force in disgrace before he was kicked out having been convicted of a criminal offence by his peers.

You can criticise them all you like but on the proper threads specifically designed for it and there are plenty of them about,I asked a very very specific question and it has descended, very predictably of course, into a Grime is a conman, liar, fraudster fest,  its pathetic at best

PS Mr Grimes job is not to prove anything, neither was Amarals, its the courts who try to do that

And Amaral was taken off the Madeleine case in Oct 07, and worked until June 08 in another dept,after which he resigned of his own accord, he was not kicked out by anyone and his conviction was not until 2009

Get a grip Redblossom and please read my post properly.  Amaral had nowhere to go after his stupid claims against the McCanns.  He was humiliated when he was removed from his job as coordinator by his superiors and he knew that if he didn't resign he would be kicked out and lose his pension. He wasn't prepared to take that risk.

Now he is going to be humiliated all over again when he is forced to settle the civil suit brought against him by the McCanns.

Well you can gloat if and when that happens then John

You've been gloating for six years at the suffering of parents who's child is missing

Are you to tell us that this is acceptable behaviour?

[John]

Get a grip Redblossom and please read my post properly.  Amaral had nowhere to go after his stupid claims against the McCanns.  He was humiliated when he was removed from his job as coordinator by his superiors and he knew that if he didn't resign he would be kicked out and lose his pension. He wasn't prepared to take that risk.

Now he is going to be humiliated all over again when he is forced to settle the civil suit brought against him by the McCanns.

Well you can gloat if and when that happens then John

What a fool he was,   

[registrar]

Not bothered anymore, registrar, Im out of is place, no point anymore might as well be reading stop the myths, definitely NOT an imparyial and unbiased place

Shame they have seen fit and be allowed to hijack this place, doesnt change a single thing though, however many threads people start which are based on lies or complete bollocks......

Yawn.....floors all yours lets see who wipes it in the end

Chow
 

Happy trails

[debunker]

Yet Grime, who had left South Yorkshire police in July 2007 and was selling his dogs' services through his private business

Isn't there an argument somewhere on one of these threads about whether or not Grime was still a serving a police officer when he went to Portugal?  Seems that the no's have it ....

I'm not sure. His first inspection was on 31 July and the others spanned the first week of August.

He may have been still technically working for SYP, but in reality already self-employed depending on whether he had untaken vacation days left.

Whichever it was - it's a fact that he had already decided to resign from the Police force to set up his own business and in future Eddie and Keela would be his source of income.   I think it's unrealistic to say that this fact had no bearing or influence at all on his 'mindset' during his searching activities with his dogs, in a case being followed by millions worldwide.  The man is only human after all.   He must have considered the impact this case could have on his own future.

I would have more confidence in a dog handler who had no plans to leave the force at that time - so that there was no possibility of 'self-interest' creeping in.

The dogs were the property of the police so how did he end up owning this asset?  Isn't it the case that the dogs would have been totally useless without Grime?  If grime went the dogs had to go too.

It is not worth retraining a dog for a different handler. Most Police dogs retire with their handlers; many police dogs when they retire become household pets of the handlers. This goes for all police dogs.

[DCI]

Yet Grime, who had left South Yorkshire police in July 2007 and was selling his dogs' services through his private business

Isn't there an argument somewhere on one of these threads about whether or not Grime was still a serving a police officer when he went to Portugal?  Seems that the no's have it ....

That quote (from The Mail) is wrong, CG.

SYP confirmed in a FOI answer that Grime retired in August.

So let's get this straight then.  It would have been South Yorkshire Police whom the Portuguese would have had to pay for services rendered and not the serving constable Grime?

Well, not necessarily, John.

Grime could have taken annual leave leading up to retirement, been given immediate custody of the dogs, and put in a spot of freelancing work while on annual leave ...

Seems he did Carana

Yet Grime, who had left South Yorkshire police in July 2007 and was selling his dogs' services through his private business, had failed to keep up the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) licence that certified Eddie as a police 'cadaver dog'.

Grime did have a second sniffer dog, Keela, but its licence expired a fortnight after they arrived in Jersey.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217863/Bungled-Jersey-child-abuse-probe-branded-20million-shambles.html#ixzz2UEoK3rXy
 

[DCI]

Seems Eddie had a thing about walls 

Current
 
•Director at GSS International
 •Owner at Forensic Canine Search Consultancy
 
Past
 
•Police Dog Training Instructor at Uk Police
 •Military at British military
 
Education
 
•UKACPO canine trainer
 
Martin Grime’s Summary
 
•UKNPIA / FBI Forensic Canine Program expert adviser / consultant.
 
Martin Grime’s Specialties:
 
•Search advice.
 •Training and operational planning homicide victim search.
 
Martin Grime’s Experience
 
•Director - GSS International June 2009-Present (1 year 1 month):  Canine Director for an International company that provides specialist search services and training in the military and law enforcement environment.
 •Owner- Forensic Canine Search Consultancy-August 2007 — Present (2 years 11 months)
 •Homicide Victim Search / Missing person search Forensic Canine search consultant.
 •Operational deployment and training of specialist canine search units.
 •FBI specialist advisor.
 •California Narcotics Canine Association.
 •Police Dog Training Instructor UK Police-January 1984 — August 2007 (23 years 8 months)
 •Police Dog Training Instructor
 •Human remains search.
 
Military
 
•British military-January 1975 — April 1984 (9 years 4 months)
 
Martin Grime’s Education
 
•UKACPO canine trainer
 
Activities and Societies:
 
•Private sector qualified canine trainer.
 •Member California Narcotic Canine Association

[Mrs. B]

I find it unbelievable that the people who put their faith in these dogs totally ignore Mr. Grime's explicit instructions on how to assess the dog alerts.

Every alert can be subject to interpretation, it has to be confirmed. The signals of an alert are only just that. Once the alert has been given by the dog, it is up to the investigator/forensic scientist to locate, identify and scientifically provide the evidence of DNA, etc.

There simply were NO confirmed "cadaver scent" alerts by any dog in this case, so why do some keep insisting on ignoring the handler's own words on the matter?

[Puffin]

I find it unbelievable that the people who put their faith in these dogs totally ignore Mr. Grime's explicit instructions on how to assess the dog alerts.

Every alert can be subject to interpretation, it has to be confirmed. The signals of an alert are only just that. Once the alert has been given by the dog, it is up to the investigator/forensic scientist to locate, identify and scientifically provide the evidence of DNA, etc.

There simply were NO confirmed "cadaver scent" alerts by any dog in this case, so why do some keep insisting on ignoring the handler's own words on the matter?

Because it runs counter to their totally ingrained and blinkered belief that only they are right.  It's a mindset you will never change how ever hard you try.