If the man Jane Tanner saw was the abductor, how long did he have ?

[faithlilly]

Yes police dogs are used around the world,  but sometimes they get it wrong.

Rather a coincidence that they 'got it wrong ' with only items related to the McCanns then, isn't it ?

[huggy]

My own opinion is that the Tanner sighting and the Smith sighting were of two different people . I cant see any potential snatch at say 9.10 ish to still be wandering the streets of town 50 minutes later.

Who knows who the smiths saw - it could have been a normal tourist wandering back from  a restaurant/ bar with own child who for whatever reason didn't come forward - who knows.  The pros and cons of the Smiths and what he did see have been discussed ad nauseam -

I just can see it being Gerry running around looking for a hiding place minutes before the discovery was scheduled to happen and he was needed to be back at the restaurant.-

Gerry had the ability to be in two places at once including ordering and eating his dinner and chatting to Mr Wilkins while also being down town carrying a child according to some poor deluded souls.  Unbelievable the stuff some gullible people believe even today with all the files available to read.  Mr Smith must feel like a right plank after saying it was Gerry he saw.   


My own view about the timings is that the abductor was extremely lucky not to have been challenged.  He picked a moment in time in which Matthew Gerry and Jane as well as Mr Wilkins were all in the vicinity within minutes of each other.

[AnneGuedes]

A child missing.  Raised shutters, open window, 4 eye witnesses, a forensic disaster -  plus no motive, no means and no time for the parents or their friends to have removed Madeleine from 5A and disposed of her body.   That's evidence to me.

Why don't you give us your theory of what happened Stephen?

There's no evidence of raised shutters, open window and photos show the curtains didn't fly. It doesn't mean that shutters and window weren't open. But there's no evidence an intruder did open them.
About the motive, of course there's one, though it doesn't mean the body was disposed of.

[faithlilly]

Mr. Prout did not kill his wife in the living room where the dog alerted.  He killed her in a shooting lodge and then disposed of the body from there.  The dog did not alert to the crime scene or the grave.

Do we know enough about the sequence of events with regard to Prout's crime to even gauge that ? If the dog is not deployed in the vicinity of the odour, how are they to alert ? How long did the body remain in the shooting lodge, was it moved to the house prior to burial ?

[Lace]

Rather a coincidence that they 'got it wrong ' with only items related to the McCanns then, isn't it ?

Eddie didn't alert to Gerry's clothes though,   don't you think that strange?

Why was Sean's tee shirt alerted to?

Why was the garden alerted to?

Why wasn't the area behind the sofa alerted to?   Eddie sniffed in the exact same spot that Keela did,  where a tiny amount of what was thought blood,  UNDER the tiles.    Why not in the grout?

[registrar]

There are many cases where a cadaver dog has alerted and no body was found yet years later the alerts were found to be correct, Zappata a case used by the McCanns themselves and Prout are two that easily spring to mind, so while the evidence of the dogs may not be strong enough to be used in court on their own at the moment that does not mean that in the future they won't be and it is certainly is not game over.

There are many cases where a cadaver dog has alerted and no body was found yet years later the alerts were found to be correct, Zappata a case used by the McCanns themselves and Prout are two that easily spring to mind, so while the evidence of the dogs may not be strong enough to be used in court on their own at the moment that does not mean that in the future they won't be and it is certainly is not game over.

How many more times, the dogs don't produce evidence - just mere indications

If a rescue dog say in an earthquake zone - alerts to a person under rubble - diggers come out
but no person is found - then the dog was wrong.

Of all the myriad of myths on these forums - the myth that

a)the dogs are infallible b)the dogs provide EVIDENCE  

is by far the biggest one

Grime - said so himself Keela might have barked at a bumblebee flying past for all we know - if coppers on the ground and scientists in a lab don't corroberate the Indications with Evidence - they are not worth a tin of Pedigree - err, dog food

[huggy]

Rather a coincidence that they 'got it wrong ' with only items related to the McCanns then, isn't it ?

Eddie was familiar with cuddle cat as can be seen from the videos so kindly posted by members.  My suggestion is that eddie reacted to Kates trousers just because of cross contamination with cuddle cat.

[AnneGuedes]

How do you think that would go down in court as evidence  - Stephen?

Are courts the issue, Benice ? Isn't the only reasonable issue what happened to Madeleine ?

[faithlilly]

Gerry had the ability to be in two places at once including ordering and eating his dinner and chatting to Mr Wilkins while also being down town carrying a child according to some poor deluded souls.  Unbelievable the stuff some gullible people believe even today with all the files available to read.  Mr Smith must feel like a right plank after saying it was Gerry he saw.   


My own view about the timings is that the abductor was extremely lucky not to have been challenged.  He picked a moment in time in which Matthew Gerry and Jane as well as Mr Wilkins were all in the vicinity within minutes of each other.

It's been said a million times but obviously it's worth saying again. There are no independent witnesses that put Gerry at the tapas table at the time of the Smith sighting.

[Carana]

Where did he hide ? If he was disturbed by Gerry he would in all probability have been in the children's bedroom and the first thing he would have known was Gerry opening the patio doors. From where Gerry would have been standing there is a direct line of sight to the children's bedroom so he couldn't have left the bedroom and we know from Amaral's documentary that it was virtually impossible to hide in the bedroom so where did he conceal himself ?

I can understand why they would have wondered:
- the narrow window of opportunity;
- the bedroom door being more open than usual.

I find it unlikely that someone could have been hiding in the children's bedroom:

- there may well not have been space to hide behind the door;
- getting into the wardrobe may not have been feasible depending on how much space there actually was between the right-hand cot and the wardrobe;
- there may (or not) have been enough space to crouch and hide at the far right-hand corner, near the chair;
- it would have required total silence.

On the other hand, if there had been someone in there, the first noise would quite possibly be the gate. It would have been risky to hide in the parents' bedroom (in case someone decided to get an extra layer of clothing or something else), but less risky than hiding anywhere else.

[Mrs. B]

There are independent witnesses placing Gerry McCann at the OC minutes after the alarm was raised, if he was seen by Smith on his way to the beach, how did he get there? Time travel?

[faithlilly]

Eddie didn't alert to Gerry's clothes though,   don't you think that strange?

Why was Sean's tee shirt alerted to?

Why was the garden alerted to?

Why wasn't the area behind the sofa alerted to?   Eddie sniffed in the exact same spot that Keela did,  where a tiny amount of what was thought blood,  UNDER the tiles.    Why not in the grout?

Gerry could have taken the clothes he had worn that night home with him.

Contamination from a an item that had been in contact with the body.

A fall from the small balcony into the garden, where the body was discovered.

The area behind the back of the sofa was alerted to by both Eddie and Keela.

[registrar]

There are independent witnesses placing Gerry McCann at the OC minutes after the alarm was raised, if he was seen by Smith on his way to the beach, how did he get there? Time travel?

SOLVED the case just there - Gerry has an evil, identical twin - who carried out the dastardly act

B-movie stuff maybe - but much more plausible than some constructs on here and elsewhere

[Mrs. B]

Oh good were back at the walking dead again, if Madeleine fell FROM the balcony into the flowerbed & accidentally met her death, did she run back in again & made sure to fall from sofa too? Or was it the other way around?

[AnneGuedes]

Amaral demonstrated it was impossible for an abductor to hide behind the bedroom door,  besides the abductor would have to have moved the door to get behind it and Gerry would have noticed that and the cots where in front of the wardrobe doors so no hiding place there.

The guy had no belly or at least wasn't described like having one, so he could fit behind the bedroom door. Mr McCann precisely found it "more" open than he'd left it.