Question:

[Mrs. B]

I carried on hunting. "Homicidio" seems to be the generally accepted term for manslaughter.

However, could this doctor ever go on holiday to Ireland, or any other EU country, if Ireland requests extradition on the grounds of manslaughter?
europarl.europa.eu
   
¿Pero podrá este médico irse algún día de vacaciones a Irlanda o a cualquier otro país de la UE si Irlanda solicita su entrega alegando homicidio?
europarl.europa.eu


So what would "death by others" mean in juxtaposition to manslaughter?

Unless "death by others" was meant to convey the idea of manslaughter and "homicidio" was used to mean murder.

What's left?

It can't mean accident, unless a sofa and a wall were "third parties".


   

AFAIK Homicido is the accepted translation of manslaughter, as in Homicidio Involuntario = involuntary manslaughter. But Amaral & his team wasn't really investigating any manslaughter third parties. In fact, what did Amaral investigate, apart from the McCanns & Murat?

[Redblossom]

Amaral:

We talked about death by others, not murder

Harrison:

This report considers solely the possibility that Madeleine has been murdered.  Other possibilities or scenarios will be considered on request.

Amaral lied.

And the source of the scurrilous wikipedia leaks is laid bare.

Not convincing, you are probably getting confused by language nuances and meanings. As for wikileaks, yes, the source was Alexander Ellis memo or somethng was it not? Nothing to do with Amaral

[ferryman]

Not convincing, you are probably getting confused by language nuances and meanings. As for wikileaks, yes, the source was Alexander Ellis memo or somethng was it not? Nothing to do with Amaral

The source was (unauthorised!) leaks from the PJ files.

[Carana]

Ferryman has a point.

This answer had to be after the dog inspection, and Harrison's remit was to examine the possibility of murder.

So why was this watered down?


Q - What do you think that could have happened that night?

A - Both the British and Portuguese police, and even the prosecutor, who has already changed his mind, thought the same. We talked about death by others, not murder. In the room blood and cadaver odour was found just below a window where a sofa was....

[Mrs. B]

The source was (unauthorised!) leaks from the PJ files.

Isn't it funny how the "leaking" stopped just as soon as Amaral was taken off the case?

[Redblossom]

The source was (unauthorised!) leaks from the PJ files.

The pj leaked info to wikileaks? Do you have a link to that *fact* over and above any leaks by British officials or wikileaks hacking websites and getting it themselves? The point of wikileaks was it wa all ultra confidential info from govt websites, not just leaks from police papers and any tom dick or harry

 

[ferryman]

Scroll down to page 310.

I will add the relevant parts in edits:

http://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20WiltshireOperationHavenRedacted%2020081112%20JN.pdf

I will add the rest in a further edit:

1045hrs – CO POWER receives a call from
DCO HARPER telling him about the first ‘find’.
1045hrs – A freelance journalist is found in the back
field of Haut de la Garenne.
1045hrs – DCO HARPER makes the decision to
release information to the press about the ‘find’.
1101hrs – CO POWER e-mails Wendy KINNARD,
Andrew LEWIS, Bill OGLEY, Frank WALKER (cc
DCO HARPER) regarding abuse enquiry publicity,
stating ‘all, this is to let you know that we have had
a well informed media enquiry from the UK in
relation to the above. In consultation with the
DCO and in the interests of fair relations with the
local media an announcement is likely to be made
soon. The announcement will confirm that acting on
the basis of information gained during the enquiry
the investigation team, assisted by experts from the
UK, have been undertaking a forensic examination
of the former home at HDLG. This search has
revealed what appear to be the human remains of a
child. The search is continuing’.

1145hrs – DCO HARPER writes out what he wants
the press release to contain. This is copied
verbatim by OFFICER X and reads as follows
‘on Tuesday 19 February as a result of
information received during the Historic Abuse
Enquiry, States of Jersey Police commenced an
exploratory search of the former care home at Haut
de la Garenne… At 09:30 hrs today, what appears
to be potential remains of a child have been
recovered. The investigation continues. A press
conference is to be arranged in due course and you
will receive notification accordingly’.
1245hrs – CO POWER arrives on site at Haut de la
Garenne.
1305hrs – OFFICER X begins to circulate
press release to local media.
1336hrs – CO POWER leaves Haut de la Garenne.
1400hrs – A press conference takes place on site,
during which Exhibit JAR/6 is disclosed as being the
potential remains of a child.
1500hrs – Within the media strategy policy file
DCO HARPER records Decision 9, to update the
media on a daily basis, either by release through
Press Officer or by briefing.
1605hrs – X receives a phone call from
DCO HARPER at Haut de la Garenne asking for
mentoring advice
26 February 2008 A statement is made by the Chief Minister to the
States, Terry LE-SUEUR committing to provide
necessary and efficient resources to the
investigation. ERROR- This should be FRANK
WALKER
Page 311 of 383 The Council of Ministers make a further statement
declaring that they will do everything necessary to
support and work with the investigating team.
29 February 2008 CO POWER and X sign terms of
reference in regard the ACPO Homicide Working
Group mentoring/advice team to support Operation
Rectangle.
1 March 2008 The media strategy for Operation Rectangle is
created.
Appendix 1 Highly Confidential – Personal

[Redblossom]

rubbish

But thanks

[gilet]

rubbish

But thanks

Thanks for that profound comment. It really explains everything.

[Mrs. B]

Thanks for that profound comment. It really explains everything.

Yes, can we have a link please, so that we can elaborate further.

[ferryman]

In an e-mail to OFFICER X
and others, CO POWER states ‘my
understanding of the rules is that we should not
commit to non budgeted expenditure until the
proposition is passed by the States’.
 X completes X report in respect of
Exhibit JAR/6. In it X states that the sample was
not bone and not human, appearing instead to be
more like part of a large seed casing or part of
something like a small piece of coconut


1052hrs – Confirmation is given by the LGC
Forensics that they had sent letter to
DCO HARPER. They then agree to e-mail the letter
to X .
1522hrs – An e-mail is sent from DCO HARPER to
X asking specifically if X is
comfortable for DCO HARPER to state publicly that
Exhibit JAR/6 is not bone to which X replies
affirmatively

Further edit:

With thanks to Carana, not only for finding the link, but also for finding where, in a very long document, the point is explicitly made that JAR/6 was a coconut.

I'm bound to concede that her proffered explanations of how Eddie might have come to alert to a coconut were less kind to my stomach ulcers. 

I digress ....

[Mrs. B]

In an e-mail to OFFICER X
and others, CO POWER states ‘my
understanding of the rules is that we should not
commit to non budgeted expenditure until the
proposition is passed by the States’.
 X completes X report in respect of
Exhibit JAR/6. In it X states that the sample was
not bone and not human, appearing instead to be
more like part of a large seed casing or part of
something like a small piece of coconut


1052hrs – Confirmation is given by the LGC
Forensics that they had sent letter to
DCO HARPER. They then agree to e-mail the letter
to X .
1522hrs – An e-mail is sent from DCO HARPER to
X asking specifically if X is
comfortable for DCO HARPER to state publicly that
Exhibit JAR/6 is not bone to which X replies
affirmatively

So, basically, what we've been saying all along, Eddie the dog alerted to a Coconut or, if you prefer, a "large seed casing". I.e. He was talented in more ways then one, he alternatively could be used to trace missing cadavers or lost fruit & veg. Marvelous!

[Carana]

@ Ferryman, I'm really sorry that I have contributed to your ulcers. I didn't mean to. 


Seriously, I doubt that he really reacted to a coconut, but to something unrelated near or on it.

It was no doubt worth investigating in case it had been a skull fragment... but - as it turned out - it simply wasn't what the humans had assumed.

A question following on from a point you made about pre-screening. The original location may have been a general sniffing area. However, was Eddie given the opportunity to sniff it again in a pre-screened area?

If he did, it may have eliminated a reaction near it, but it still wouldn't have eliminated a smell that may have been on it.

I haven't gone back to double-check, but I don't recall a control test.

[Eleanor]

Isn't it funny how the "leaking" stopped just as soon as Amaral was taken off the case?

Isn't it funny that The Prosecutor changed his mind?

[ferryman]

@ Ferryman, I'm really sorry that I have contributed to your ulcers. I didn't mean to. 


Seriously, I doubt that he really reacted to a coconut, but to something unrelated near or on it.

It was no doubt worth investigating in case it had been a skull fragment... but - as it turned out - it simply wasn't what the humans had assumed.

A question following on from a point you made about pre-screening. The original location may have been a general sniffing area. However, was Eddie given the opportunity to sniff it again in a pre-screened area?

If he did, it may have eliminated a reaction near it, but it still wouldn't have eliminated a smell that may have been on it.

I haven't gone back to double-check, but I don't recall a control test.

I would cite the evidence of Grime's undoubted disregard for procedures and protocols in inspections at PdL (the gym, the villa) as evidence that while what you say is technically possible, it's highly unlikely ...

And no, there is no mention in the report of any screening, although I wouldn't necessarily expect there to be, even if there had been screening, because that wouldn't be a part of the brief of the person who wrote that report.

That would be Grime's brief.

But Grime, rather like Jesus, doesn't leave too much in the way of written records.

Not sure I'd want to push the analogy too much further, though ...