Author Topic: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.  (Read 22767 times)

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Offline John

Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2013, 05:41:29 PM »
It has been pointed out that the childrens crèche was operational on the night that Madeleine disappeared and suggested that it might have been one of the parents from that crèche that Jane Tanner saw.

Highly unlikely since the crèche is located in the same building as the Main Reception and several hundred yards away in the opposite direction from whence the man carrying a child was seen by Tanner.

In addition, as it was such a cold blustery night, no parent was going to carry their child around town dressed merely in PJ's and with bare feet.

In addition, OC staff knew who if anyone had collected children after 9pm and they were readily identifiable.  The fact that no such individuals were identified by police speaks volumes.

I'm  afraid the suggestion that Tannerman came from the OC crèche is therefore a most definite non starter.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 04:17:37 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2013, 06:17:40 PM »
If the distance between Mrs Tanner and him, whether 1m or 6m, was irrelevant, then why did Mr McCann insist against two witnesses ?

You will have to ask a brain surgeon that one!
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2013, 06:20:22 PM »
If you are talking about the video then IMO that had nothing to do with anything Gerry said.  Jayne was re-living probably the most terrible time of her life to date - when she watched Madeleine being abducted by a stranger - and because she didn't realise what was happening, she walked on by.   No wonder she was sobbing.   That horrible memory will stay with her forever.    I have nothing but intense sympathy for the poor girl.

I agree.  8((()*/

A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Rachel Granada

  • Guest
Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2013, 06:39:50 PM »
It is wonderful what comes out of the ether at times. It truely is a remarkable coincidence that two guys on their own carrying near identical looking children of the same sex and clothed the same and in such close proximity within 40 minutes of each other should both choose to remain anonymous.

Does anyone else find this compelling evidence?

I will put it to the members to see if we want a post of the day.

It is indeed compelling evidence, John.  A post of the day would be ace!

Offline Benice

Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2013, 12:11:38 AM »
I hope you have the same intense sympathy for Mr McCann who didn't realise what was happening when he found the door "more opened than he had left it".
Mrs Tanner's sobbing didn't surprise me at all when I watched that "reconstruction", though my interpretation is different from yours.

Of course I have intense sympathy for the father of an abducted child.  As with Jane Tanner the idea of an abductor being around did not occur to him.   And why should it?

I would be interested to hear your interpretation of Jane Tanner's distress.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline faithlilly

Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2013, 01:16:07 AM »
Of course I have intense sympathy for the father of an abducted child.  As with Jane Tanner the idea of an abductor being around did not occur to him.   And why should it?

I would be interested to hear your interpretation of Jane Tanner's distress.

I know you asked Anne but for what it's worth I think Tanner was upset that Gerry had asked her the way over to Portugal just to make an absolute fool of her in front of the camera.

By the way, if Gerry and Wilkins were standing just outside the gate of 5a as Tanner and Wilkins claim, why did Madeleine Was Here show Gerry's recollection instead ? Does Gerry's recollection  really have more credibility that two witnesses, one of them independent, saying the same thing ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Benice

Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2013, 09:53:52 AM »
I know you asked Anne but for what it's worth I think Tanner was upset that Gerry had asked her the way over to Portugal just to make an absolute fool of her in front of the camera.

By the way, if Gerry and Wilkins were standing just outside the gate of 5a as Tanner and Wilkins claim, why did Madeleine Was Here show Gerry's recollection instead ? Does Gerry's recollection  really have more credibility that two witnesses, one of them independent, saying the same thing ?

But he didn't make a fool of her Faith - they disagreed over where he was standing when JT passed him.  This didn't come as a huge shock to JT - she already knew that their memories differed on that.        I'm sure they must have talked about it together previously - but still couldn't agree - and as you say Jez's memory of where they stood was nearer to her recollection than Gerry's - so why would she get upset?     That makes no sense to me.       

It does make sense to me however that she would get terribly upset having to re-live the journey she made up that road and what she saw on that horrendous night - and all the ..'if onlys' ..which must come back into her mind afterwards.      Anyone who can't understand how horrendous that was for her -  must have no conception of empathy IMO. 

I have no idea why Gerry's 'recollection' was chosen, -  maybe if was because his memory appeared to be more detailed and clearer than the other two  -  but as far as I'm concerned it doesn't make any difference to anything.    He was in that road  talking to Jez, and JT passed by and saw them there.    If she didn't pass them - how did she know they were there? 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 04:19:25 AM by John »
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #67 on: July 03, 2013, 11:09:47 AM »
But he didn't make a fool of her Faith - they disagreed over where he was standing when JT passed him.  This didn't come as a huge shock to JT - she already knew that their memories differed on that.        I'm sure they must have talked about it together previously - but still couldn't agree - and as you say Jez's memory of where they stood was nearer to her recollection than Gerry's - so why would she get upset?     That makes no sense to me.       

It does make sense to me however that she would get terribly upset having to re-live the journey she made up that road and what she saw on that horrendous night - and all the ..'if onlys' ..which must come back into her mind afterwards.      Anyone who can't understand how horrendous that was for her -  must have no conception of empathy IMO. 

I have no idea why Gerry's 'recollection' was chosen, -  maybe if was because his memory appeared to be more detailed and clearer than the other two  -  but as far as I'm concerned it doesn't make any difference to anything.    He was in that road  talking to Jez, and JT passed by and saw them there.    If she didn't pass them - how did she know they were there?
Mr McCann's recollection (though not matching his first statement and the TPs' "official" timeline he agreed to) was chosen because it suited him better and he was the boss, as simple as that. Mrs Tanner, without JW to support her, was shocked to be publicly discredited. One thing is to be questioned by the media (and Mrs Tanner was more than any one else of the group), another by a acquaintance you're there to help.
Mr McCann could have cut that scene, but didn't. Attempt to "resolve" the first point needing clarification according to the AG ?

Offline Benice

Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #68 on: July 03, 2013, 11:51:17 AM »
Mr McCann's recollection (though not matching his first statement and the TPs' "official" timeline he agreed to) was chosen because it suited him better and he was the boss, as simple as that. Mrs Tanner, without JW to support her, was shocked to be publicly discredited. One thing is to be questioned by the media (and Mrs Tanner was more than any one else of the group), another by a acquaintance you're there to help.
Mr McCann could have cut that scene, but didn't. Attempt to "resolve" the first point needing clarification according to the AG ?

And if Jane Tanner was so upset because of what Gerry said to her 'in public' - then Gerry would have asked for that convo to be cut out altogether.   It would have been no big deal from the 'video' point of view - he could still have been filmed on the part of the road that he remembered he and Jez stood. 

This lady had bravely agreed to put herself through an enormous ordeal on his behalf - she was on his side FGS, do you think he didn't know that?   No way would he insist that a scene which he knew had upset her so much would remain in to be shown to millions.   The very fact that the scene was not cut is proof in itself that it was not a problem to her. 

She wasn't upset about it - because it didn't come as a shock to her when Gerry publically said his recollection was different to hers - she already knew that and so would not expect him to say anything different.   You talk as if this was some huge revelation that came 'out of the blue'.    That's nonsense imo.

Your reluctance to accept that the whole experience of re-living her part in what happened that night would be the cause of considerable distress to her is incomprehensible to me Anne.

You still haven't said where you think JT saw the man carrying a child.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 04:22:15 AM by John »
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2013, 12:39:54 PM »


Your reluctance to accept that the whole experience of re-living her part in what happened that night would be the cause of considerable distress to her is incomprehensible to me Anne.

You still haven't said where you think JT saw the man carrying a child.

"My reluctance" is your invention, it doesn't exist, Benice, and you know it perfectly.
I think Mrs Tanner didn't see the child carrier when and where she said she did, because I'm like the AG and many people, I don't believe in the invisible and noiseless woman. But I also think she saw someone. Where, when ? Who knows ?
Possible clue to "where" : the oral statement of Mr McCann to the PJ and Silvia Batista's testimony.

Offline Benice

Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2013, 02:16:54 PM »
"My reluctance" is your invention, it doesn't exist, Benice, and you know it perfectly.
I think Mrs Tanner didn't see the child carrier when and where she said she did, because I'm like the AG and many people, I don't believe in the invisible and noiseless woman. But I also think she saw someone. Where, when ? Who knows ?
Possible clue to "where" : the oral statement of Mr McCann to the PJ and Silvia Batista's testimony.

It was not an 'invention' Anne - it was an 'observation' from your posts.    IMO it is certainly not impossible for Jez and Gerry to have missed her during the couple of seconds it took for her to pass.   You can categorically rule out one of them straightaway if that person had their back to her.    The other may have been looking down at the baby in the buggy, or simply not looking in her direction.       I've done that myself when I was talking to a neighbour and another neighbour passed by on the other side of the road.    If that neighbour had not shouted a greeting to us, neither of us would have known he was there  - and that was in broad daylight.

I can't be bothered to play games Anne.   Instead of giving 'possible'  clues, why don't you just state your own opinion.


 
 

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline faithlilly

Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #71 on: July 03, 2013, 02:52:50 PM »
It was not an 'invention' Anne - it was an 'observation' from your posts.    IMO it is certainly not impossible for Jez and Gerry to have missed her during the couple of seconds it took for her to pass.   You can categorically rule out one of them straightaway if that person had their back to her.    The other may have been looking down at the baby in the buggy, or simply not looking in her direction.       I've done that myself when I was talking to a neighbour and another neighbour passed by on the other side of the road.    If that neighbour had not shouted a greeting to us, neither of us would have known he was there  - and that was in broad daylight.

I can't be bothered to play games Anne.   Instead of giving 'possible'  clues, why don't you just state your own opinion.


 

This is from Wilkins rogatory statement :

'I can affirm that it was a quiet street and it was very unlikely that someone could have passed by me in this way '
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Angelo222

Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #72 on: July 03, 2013, 03:11:30 PM »
This is from Wilkins rogatory statement :

'I can affirm that it was a quiet street and it was very unlikely that someone could have passed by me in this way '

Yes.....unlikely but not impossible. 
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline faithlilly

Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #73 on: July 03, 2013, 03:14:00 PM »
Yes.....unlikely but not impossible.

Anything is possible, the question is is it probable ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Carana

Re: A CHILD BEING CARRIED.
« Reply #74 on: July 03, 2013, 03:54:36 PM »
What does "quiet" mean? Not busy? Totally silent? I doubt that it was a totally silent street in a village. He was trying calm down a screaming baby and it was only just pas 9pm in a culture that seems fairly active at this time of the evening. Even if the street itself was quiet in terms of absence of traffic, there would still be people with TVs or music on, or people dining.

Two men engaged in conversation about their shared interest in tennis (one of whom seems to have been known as fairly boisterous), plus the baby - who may, or may not have fallen asleep by this point - and Jane who just wanted to nip up the road to do her check.

It's not as if they hadn't heard a helicopter overhead or noticed a San Fran car chase...