Author Topic: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?  (Read 65694 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #225 on: July 20, 2013, 10:10:20 AM »
I was asking John because he stated that there was  'evidence'  that the McCann's apartment was being watched

Do you know what the evidence is Carana  ?

No, I'm not sure what John was referring to.

Luz's reference to "witnesses" who could rule out the possibility during that time period is intriguing. 

Offline Benice

Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #226 on: July 20, 2013, 10:16:17 AM »
Or it was a Freudian slip by the Mccanns, one of many.

and there's there's another by Mitchell.....

"I believe Kate and Gerry are not responsible for Madeleine's death"

LOL Stephen why is it that no-one connected with the McCanns, or the McCanns themselves for that matter, are ever allowed to make a normal slip of the tongue, or use the wrong word, just like everyone else in the world occasionally does - without it being leapt upon by sceptics and described as a 'Freudian' slip with sinister undertones.    Absolute nonsense - not to mention 'desperation' IMO.

I suppose you've never had a slip of the tongue, or got your words mixed up -  ever - in your whole life.

   


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline John

Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #227 on: July 20, 2013, 10:20:19 AM »
What  'evidence'  is there that the McCann's apartment was being watched  ?

Evidence by several independent witnesses who saw a man lurking in the shadows in the nights before the abduction.  Once such person might have been a coincidence but the fact that more than one witness evidenced this renders it very suspicious.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Albertini

Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #228 on: July 20, 2013, 10:21:49 AM »
Once again you are talking with hindsight.  We know Madeleine was not going to be found, but in those first few moments they didn't know that.   Of course they would search the whole place inside and out.   Good grief - even one of the policemen who first turned up searched the whole apartment!    If you want to criticise anyone - for the loss of forensics  -  then maybe you should criticise him instead of the panic stricken parents. 

The idea that professional people do not have the same feelings, emotions and reactions as other people when it comes to the wellbeing of their own children is quite ridiculous IMO.

It would appear you have missed the point of my analogy re Firefighters.

No Gerry had tampered with the shutters BEFORE the police arrived. Just as all and sundry were in the apartment before the police arrived.

I do not know how seeing open shutters being opened again could help find a missing child. There is no justifiable or logical reason for doing that.

In fact a conclusion could be drawn that it was done deliberately because there is no other viable reason for them to be touched.

Nobody is saying professional people do not have the same feelings as anyone else. What i am saying is that as doctors they are trained to function under pressure and stress and to be able to manage those feelings.

In your fireman analogy you said when a fireman found his child DEAD. Unless you are comparing Gerry finding his child DEAD your analogy is not valid.

Which is why i wondered if you were tacitly admitting you believed Gerry found Madeleine dead?

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #229 on: July 20, 2013, 10:23:36 AM »
Evidence by several independent witnesses who saw a man lurking in the shadows in the nights before the abduction.  Once such person might have been a coincidence but the fact that more than one witness evidenced this renders it very suspicious.

You mean the witnesses  mentioned by the McCann's hired private-detective on their documentary  ?

I thought they had been invesigated,  identified,   and eliminated by the police  ...  is that not correct  ? 

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #230 on: July 20, 2013, 10:35:22 AM »
described as a 'Freudian' slip with sinister undertones.   
   
"Freudian slips" have nothing sinister ! According to Freud the unconscious expresses itself, foiling the barriers of our internal censor, the superego. It's a precious opportunity for self-examination.

Offline Luz

Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #231 on: July 20, 2013, 10:36:10 AM »
No, I'm not sure what John was referring to.

Luz's reference to "witnesses" who could rule out the possibility during that time period is intriguing.

There is nothing intriguing about my statement.
There are apartments right in front of 5A OC ...
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 10:39:04 AM by Luz »

Offline Benice

Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #232 on: July 20, 2013, 10:43:04 AM »
No Gerry had tampered with the shutters BEFORE the police arrived. Just as all and sundry were in the apartment before the police arrived.

I do not know how seeing open shutters being opened again could help find a missing child. There is no justifiable or logical reason for doing that.

In fact a conclusion could be drawn that it was done deliberately because there is no other viable reason for them to be touched.

Nobody is saying professional people do not have the same feelings as anyone else. What i am saying is that as doctors they are trained to function under pressure and stress and to be able to manage those feelings.

In your fireman analogy you said when a fireman found his child DEAD. Unless you are comparing Gerry finding his child DEAD your analogy is not valid.

Which is why i wondered if you were tacitly admitting you believed Gerry found Madeleine dead?

Gerry didn't 'tamper' with the shutters, he checked them to see if they could be raised from outside - which must have taken him a matter of seconds.    I've explained why I think he may have done that - so I'm not going to repeat it.

You quite clearly said that professionals would not/should not react the same as other people to a terrible shock concerning one of their children.   My analagy was to portray that loving parents' professions have no bearing on sudden shock involving their childlren - no matter what the cause of that acute shock may be.   Death or abduction are both monumental shocks in anyone's book.

Of course I don't think Madeleine was found dead in the apartment - because if her parents were cold, cruel and calculating enough to decide to dispose of her body, then they would have coldly and calmly devised a much simpler plan to cover that up  - than the super-complicated, convoluted one which is put forward.   

That elephant in the room just won't go away will it?


 
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Carana

Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #233 on: July 20, 2013, 10:53:33 AM »
You mean the witnesses  mentioned by the McCann's hired private-detective on their documentary  ?

I thought they had been invesigated,  identified,   and eliminated by the police  ...  is that not correct  ?

Aah. I see what John was referring to. Tasmin and a few other people. So, yes, I'd agree with him that there was evidence of people who appeared potentially suspicious to the witnesses.

Whether they were all identified and eliminated doesn't seem quite clear.


Offline John

Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #234 on: July 20, 2013, 10:55:51 AM »
You mean the witnesses  mentioned by the McCann's hired private-detective on their documentary  ?

I thought they had been invesigated,  identified,   and eliminated by the police  ...  is that not correct  ?

I mean the guy standing in the shadows immediately opposite the McCann patio gate seen by a nursery worker and the guy lurking in a stair well seen by someone else.  These are but two.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #235 on: July 20, 2013, 10:57:01 AM »

Of course I don't think Madeleine was found dead in the apartment - because if her parents were cold, cruel and calculating enough to decide to dispose of her body, then they would have coldly and calmly devised a much simpler plan to cover that up  - than the super-complicated, convoluted one which is put forward.   

That elephant in the room just won't go away will it?
Don't you see that abduction was the only way to dismiss any blame on them (the broken shutters fairytale is exemplary) ?
There's nothing particularly "cold, cruel and calculating" there, it's just human !

Offline Carana

Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #236 on: July 20, 2013, 10:58:26 AM »
There is nothing intriguing about my statement.
There are apartments right in front of 5A OC ...

Could you point me to the witness statements that have led you to this conclusion?

Offline John

Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #237 on: July 20, 2013, 10:59:54 AM »
There is nothing intriguing about my statement.
There are apartments right in front of 5A OC ...

As correctly pointed out by Sadie, what you can now see of the front of apt 5a at Ocean Club Garden and what you could see 6 years ago are two very different things.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Luz

Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #238 on: July 20, 2013, 11:02:40 AM »
I mean the guy standing in the shadows immediately opposite the McCann patio gate seen by a nursery worker and the guy lurking in a stair well seen by someone else.  These are but two.

Lurking?! What the F does that mean? If I pass a house and look at the garden or stop at the front porch to smoke a cigarette is lurking?!

In a town with a little over 15 hundred inhabitants and a few hundred tourists, 2 "lurkers"?!!!, that's very significant, indeed.

The McCann were not in the desert, in case people don't know. They were in one of the most frequented resorts at that time of the year.

Offline Luz

Re: So how did the abductor enter and leave the apartment?
« Reply #239 on: July 20, 2013, 11:05:48 AM »
As correctly pointed out by Sadie, what you can now see of the front of apt 5a at Ocean Club Garden and what you could see 6 years ago are two very different things.

The only difference is that the trees in the parking lot are now a little more grown up and the place looks more deteriorated.

My answer referred to 2007, May, 3rd to 4th.