The dogs.....

[sadie]

I disagree.  It was Grime's behaviour which changed substantially imo.    That fact is shown clearly on the video.     Eddie just kept running off -  right down to the far end of the car park on at least one occasion.  The most time spent on any other car was 30 seconds, in fact Eddie was not even required to do a full circuit of car No. 2 before Grime allowed him to move on.

On the other hand, Grime spent a full 2 minutes repeatedly calling Eddie back to the Renault and indicating to Eddie by tapping on it with his hands.      If that wasn't a substantial change of behaviour compared to the other cars  -  I don't know what is.

Once again -  had Grime behaved the same with the other cars - would there have been an alert?  Or are we to believe the interior of all those 9 cars were devoid of any odours which his dogs could detect. 

With the best will in the world I cannot believe that Grime had no idea the Renault belonged to the McCanns.   A child of 10 could have worked that out.

Quite Correct Benice as can be seen from the extended video

[Silkywhiskers]

Yet again I ask -

If SY do not believe the dogs, what evidence are they basing their "death in 5a" theory on?

[Anna]

If the information is wrong I will happily retract it.   But first of all I would like the folk who posted the original information to give some clarification.    I had no reason to doubt the veracity of the info - and as far as I know it was not challenged at the time.

Benice, I am so sorry that you have received such abuse, due to the quoting of my post, which I was sure had a link.
There appears to be a contradiction of times on these reports which can be checked on the links below. Which one is correct?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html#aug5

Also see page below (contradiction of times)

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post13722.html#p13722

[Anna]

Quite Correct Benice as can be seen from the extended video

The police drove the cars

THE HUNT FOR MADELEINE .. and then they crash Murat van
Crucial DNA evidence from Kate and Gerry McCann's hire car may have been contaminated - because police drove it to the forensic lab themselves.
Bungling detectives failed to properly secure vehicles seized during the six month probe into the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine in Portugal.
Instead of taking them on a low loader as they would be in Britain, junior officers drove the 35 miles from Praia da Luz to the forensic analysis lab in Portimao.
And the detective driving suspect Robert Murat's van CRASHED it.
Experts said the astonishing blunder could jeopardise any DNA evidence allegedly found in the boot of the Renault Scenic - which the McCanns hired 25 days after Madeleine vanished - and destroy the police theory that they they used it to move her body.
Former Scotland Yard detective Hamish Brown said: "It defies all rules of investigation. It's positively wrong. Any human who got into that vehicle would risk contaminating evidence, damaging fingerprints and possible cross-transference of fibres.
"It should have gone on to a low loader to preserve any evidence it might contain."


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html#aug5

[Anna]

“  Outside, Eddie gives two more alerts of cadaver smell, on the varanda of the couple's bedroom and also in a garden situation directly below it.
Here, the bark is weaker, like a "could be", with some doubt, like a human shrugging their shoulders“.

Martin’s Q&A Excerpt
Q
Based upon the dogs' behaviour, is it possible to distinguish between a strong signal and a weak signal?

A
The dogs' passive CSI alert provides an indication as per their training and does not vary. They only give an alert when they are 'positive' that the target of the odour is present and immediately accessible. If they had any doubts they would not give an alert. EVRD gives an alert by means of a vocal bark. The variations in the vocal alert can be explained by many reasons such as 'thirst' or 'lack of air due to effort'. Every alert can be subject to interpretation, it has to be confirmed. The signals of an alert are only just that. Once the alert has been given by the dog, it is up to the investigator/forensic scientist to locate, identify and scientifically provide the evidence of DNA, etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html#aug5

[Cariad]

If the information is wrong I will happily retract it.   But first of all I would like the folk who posted the original information to give some clarification.    I had no reason to doubt the veracity of the info - and as far as I know it was not challenged at the time.

This is why, where at all possible, we should ALL supply links. Not just bolded text from links, but the actual links themselves.

I'm not just picking on you Benice, we are all guilty of this. It used to be a rule that was quite strictly enforced and I guess we've just got a bit lazy or a bit sure of ourselves...

[Mr Gray]

Yet again I ask -

If SY do not believe the dogs, what evidence are they basing their "death in 5a" theory on?

if you ask yourself the question what were they basing the abduction theory on you will have your answer

[Mr Gray]

it doesn't matter where the dogs alerted...its what the alerts actually mean...and grime has told us...but some don't want to accept the truth

[Albertini]

it doesn't matter where the dogs alerted...its what the alerts actually mean...and grime has told us...but some don't want to accept the truth

What is your opinion on what the dogs alerted to?

[Benice]

Benice, I am so sorry that you have received such abuse, due to the quoting of my post, which I was sure had a link.
There appears to be a contradiction of times on these reports which can be checked on the links below. Which one is correct?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html#aug5
Also see page below (contradiction of times)

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post13722.html#p13722

Thank you Anna for posting the links - much appreciated.

If the contents of links are c&p'd - I tend not to click on the links themselves as I can get problems with screen freezing. 

For the benefit of posters who think I lied.  --   Having read the contents of the first link - and having no reason to disbelieve the contents  I used the information therein in my posts.    I didn't click on the 2nd link because I believed I already had the information that I needed.   

The following is the report I used and I still see no reason why I shouldn't have.

--------------------------------------------------
Date: 31 July 2007 - 20h00:

Report: Inspection of the apartments
Participants:

PJ: Tavares A. & Ricardo P. Inspectors
UK: Mark Harrison, Martin Grime (UK Forensic Canine P SM Expert),
Eddie & Keela (English Springers)
Silvia B. Manager of the Ocean Club complex.

On that date, inspections were conducted in the apartments occupied by members of the McCann family as well as the group who were with them at the time of Madeleine McCann's disappearance. It was only on that date that the apartment, identified as that of the parents, was empty allowing further investigation which was authorised by the respective occupants. Thus, at the appointed time, the search with the dogs began, covering the following apartments:

5A (Gerry/Kate McCann):
 
From 20h00 to 21h20, the dogs go through.
 
20h20: The cadaver dog, "marks," the couple's wardrobe area in the bedroom.
 
20h22: The cadaver dog, "marks" an area behind the sofa in the sitting room near the window overlooking the road.
 
From 20h47 to 21h20, the blood detecting dog goes through.
 
21h10 The dog, "marks" an area of floor behind the sofa in the sitting room, near the window overlooking the road.

5B (Matthew/Rachael Oldfield):
 
21h24 to 21h27: The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

5D (Russell O'Brien/Jane Tanner):
 
21h29 to 21h34: The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

5H (David/Fiona Payne & Dianne Webster):
 
21h35 to 21h38: The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

4G (McCanns' second Ocean Club apartment):
 
21h42 to 21h45: The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

Garden belonging to apartment 5A (with access via the balcony and the steps):

21h49 to 22h00: The cadaver dog "marks" an area of the garden immediately below the window.


End quote.

[Mr Gray]

What is your opinion on what the dogs alerted to?

the same as grime...may have been cadaverine contaminant....present as a result of  a number of different scenarios...tahts what grime says...he doesn't say maddie died in the appt

[Mr Gray]

Thanks for this, so you accept this in relation to the villa search of the McCann's:

If you are prepared to accept Grime "100%" can you give me your hypothesis as to the alert in the Villa?

I wouldnt give my hypothesis...waste of time...but I would like to hear grimes

[Mr Gray]

It is my view that it is possible that the EVRD is alerting to cadaver scent contamination. No evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from this alert unless it can be confirmed with corroborating evidence.

So grime is saying..in his view....so he is not stating fact.......he says it is possible...so he is not sure.....

[Albertini]

the same as grime...may have been cadaverine contaminant....present as a result of  a number of different scenarios...tahts what grime says...he doesn't say maddie died in the appt

Ok, so put yourself in the shoes of an impartial investigator. You have numerous alerts all (and only) related to McCann properties and possessions.

What is your hypothesis, given you accept Grime 100%, for such alerts ONLY in McCann properties and possessions.

How, as an investigator, do you explain that, what conclusions and indications do you draw from them and how do those alerts frame your investigation?

[Albertini]

I wouldnt give my hypothesis...waste of time...but I would like to hear grimes

Why is it a waste of time? It's crucial t try and get some common ground on the issue of the dogs which usually go round and round and go nowhere.