The dogs.....

[Wonderfulspam]

The cadaver dog  may  have barked because he picked up the scent of Madeleine McCann's dead body 

...  that  IS a possibility,  isn't it  ? 

I mean,  there is nothing to say he did not,  is there  ?

Surely this sighting in Belguim by Anna Stam proves that Maddie is alive.


The shop assistant claims a girl with the couple told her: "My name is Maddy", adding, "They took me from my holiday".

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-dossier-did-this-dutch-couple-325131

[sadie]

@Serendipity. With the greatest respect for your knowledge of dogs, I humbly suggest re-watching the compete video of Eddie in the living area of the villa.
The non-alert of Eddie to the toy when he first finds it has been dismissed as him playing with the "reward". I find this explanation implausible. And no explanation has been offered by you for why Eddie then does not alert when he sniffs at the open sideboard door where the toy is concealed. Also no explanation has been offered by you for the assumed (incorrectly assumed IMO) non-alert by Eddie in the living area to the checked trousers, white sleeveless top, and aeroplane child t-shirt, all of which were certainly in the living area when Eddie searched it.
I suggest that Eddie alerted as Sadie says to item(s) on top of the sideboard (watch the video - that is where he sniffs just before his first alert) however my opinion is definitely that those items are not paperwork, but are exactly the same clothes, on top of the sideboard, which he later alerted to in the gym.

Thankyou Pegasus, but please try enlarging the image.  I only know how to do x 4 times.  But even at that enlargement, the clothes look more like folders to me.

Also it could be just the sheet of paper on top.  Where did that come from?

[pathfinder73]

@Serendipity. With the greatest respect for your knowledge of dogs, I humbly suggest re-watching the compete video of Eddie in the living area of the villa.
The non-alert of Eddie to the toy when he first finds it has been dismissed as him playing with the "reward". I find this explanation implausible. And no explanation has been offered by you for why Eddie then does not alert when he sniffs at the open sideboard door where the toy is concealed. Also no explanation has been offered by you for the assumed (incorrectly assumed IMO) non-alert by Eddie in the living area to the checked trousers, white sleeveless top, and aeroplane child t-shirt, all of which were certainly in the living area when Eddie searched it.
I suggest that Eddie alerted as Sadie says to item(s) on top of the sideboard (watch the video - that is where he sniffs just before his first alert) however my opinion is definitely that those items are not paperwork, but are exactly the same clothes, on top of the sideboard, which he later alerted to in the gym.

Where are the pants in the villa living room? I couldn't see them or that red plane top. Eddie only barks if he's 100% certain. Maybe the clothes tested were packed in suitcases.

[sadie]

Police paperwork?

I wondered that too.  I also wonder if the sheet of paper on top was instructions of what Martin was to check

It is not uncommon for Police Officers to have to deal with daed bodies.

It would be great if someone could really enlarge the pile to see whether it is clothes or whether it is papers

[pegasus]

@serendipity
Please give us your talk through second by second of the full video of eddie alerting in the living area of the villa.
Let me guess your talk through will go something like this?
1. Eddie finds the toy next to a chair but does not alert because he views this as as his reward?
2. Eddie when he sniffs at the base of the open sideboard door behind which is the toy does not alert because he is not sure yet?
3. Eddie when sniffing at the pile of clothes on top of the sideboard immediately before his first alert (the exact clothes he alerted to later in the gym) thinks oh there is no smell on them but I will alert anyway?
Please watch the video, and please try to keep up 

[ferryman]

Now seems like these two videos are pretty conclusive that Martin made a mistake about Eddie alerting to Ccat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qG21K6XJRg

CCat is lying at the bottom of the cupboard.  See @ 3.41 and at @ 3.52 Eddie sniffs along the bottom of the cupboard and does not re-act.
Yet @ 4.05, he sniffs along the counter and comes to what I believe is a pile of folders with a loose sheet on top.  He immediately alerts here.
 
Martin Grime reaches in the cupboard and pulls Ccat out.  He thinks it must be Ccat that caused the alert, yet Eddie had sniffed close twice before and NOT alerted.  Martin did not have the benefit of studying the video, as we have and I can understand his thinking it was Ccat , BUT we can clearly see that it was NOT
 
[To see the pile of folders with additional sheet of paper on top see @4.51.  I suggest you enlarge the image x 4.  Click on the view symbol and then in the box to the right on 400]
 
 
 
Now before you doubting Thomases start saying, but how could Eddie have smelled the cadavar odour, cos the cupboard door was closed.
 
Well:
1)  It wasn't properly closed
2)  How come he could smell cadavar odour thru a closed car door?  Car doors make a fantastic seal to keep out draughts and rain etc..  Yet it seems Eddie could smell cadavar odour thru that amazingly tight car door seal. yet could not thru the bottom of the cupboard door, which wasn't even properly closed.
 
Come on guys, you have to concede that no way could he have failed to smell cadavar odour thru the gap in the cupboard doors, if his sense of smell was keen enough for him to smell scent thru a closed car door.
 
 
The scent was on the papers, the folders or possibly the counter at that particular point NOT on Ccat.
 
 
 
@ 3.02  Eddie sniffs the odour thru a closed car door seal
 
http://youtu.be/FTF4JTLeOWA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTF4JTLeOWA&feature=youtu.be

A closed door doesn't appear to be a bar to Eddie's ability to detect a scent.

He smelt Gerry's blood in the Renault Scenic through a closed door, then again, after it had been enclosed in a sand box.

So long as an object with a scent is not contained within something airtight, a dog ( I dare say any dog) will pick up the scent.

[John]

I find the 'evidence' by the dogs quite disconcerting and very confused.  Eddie couldn't have cared less about Cuddles yet we are told it was a positive alert. Jeez 

[Mr Gray]

It's not the first time they've been in this situation though and they just rubbished them before. Do you think they've changed their minds about the dog's reliability?

Cariad...Drs McCanns actually understand how the dogs work and their abilities. You posted the dogs have never been wrong which shows you don't...simples...to my knowledge Dr McCanns ...like me...have never rubbished the dogs

[Cariad]

Cariad...Drs McCanns actually understand how the dogs work and their abilities. You posted the dogs have never been wrong which shows you don't...simples

I don't recall posting that? Maybe specifically about Eddie, but I doubt I'd've made a general claim. For a start, I agreed that Zapta was probably wrong.

This isn't about my understand or lack there of anyway. It was about your hero denigrating the use of EVRD's which are once again being used to try and locate his child.

[Alfred R Jones]

It's not the first time they've been in this situation though and they just rubbished them before. Do you think they've changed their minds about the dog's reliability?

I shouldn't think so, but you'd really need to ask them that question.

[John]

Posters are reminded to attack the subject under discussion and not each other.  Further argumentative behaviour will attract penalties.

[Mr Gray]

I don't recall posting that? Maybe specifically about Eddie, but I doubt I'd've made a general claim. For a start, I agreed that Zapta was probably wrong.

This isn't about my understand or lack there of anyway. It was about your hero denigrating the use of EVRD's which are once again being used to try and locate his child.

Well the Fact is that his dog had never falsely alerted. So he could've stated "I'm convinced that there was a cadaver present due to my knowledge and training".

However, without forensic evidence, he has no proof and would've been torn to shreds should he ever been called to testify.

hence the need to couch it in terms like 'indicate' and 'suggest'.

It's called legalese. A couple of decades ago the same language was used to describe DNA evidence. 

its post post 232 on your list of posts

[Cariad]

Well the Fact is that his dog had never falsely alerted. So he could've stated "I'm convinced that there was a cadaver present due to my knowledge and training".

However, without forensic evidence, he has no proof and would've been torn to shreds should he ever been called to testify.

hence the need to couch it in terms like 'indicate' and 'suggest'.

It's called legalese. A couple of decades ago the same language was used to describe DNA evidence. 

its post post 232 on your list of posts

So all that was actually what I said half an hour ago? Not that I  claimed EVRD's were infallable at all, but that Eddie had a 100% record?

Seriously davel? Jesus H Christ! You'd try the patience of a saint!

So yes, I was right and you are wrong. I won't hold my breath waiting for the apology you owe me though.

[Mr Gray]

So all that was actually what I said half an hour ago? Not that I  claimed EVRD's were infallable at all, but that Eddie had a 100% record?

Seriously davel? Jesus H Christ! You'd try the patience of a saint!

So yes, I was right and you are wrong. I won't hold my breath waiting for the apology you owe me though.

no...it is not true to claim Eddie has a 100% record..you are wrong

[Mr Gray]

I'm off to my lovely bed with a good book. You'll have to find somebody else to play 'let's distract' with now.

If you don't have any offers, you could always try answering Silky's question.

Nos Da! 

You have also forgotten it was YOU who raised the question of the dogs on this thread tonight