The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.

[Brietta]

How could he if his identity wasn't known at the time?
I'm sure SY would have discussed this with him in sufficient detail to be satisfied.

Why wasn't his identity known at the time?

The crèche records didn't suddenly materialise when Operation Grange started looking into Madeleine's case ... they were in existence from 3rd May 2007 onwards ... the information was to hand for the reconstruction and there was no reason for the PJ not to have identified him in time for the invitation to go out.

[Brietta]

A detective finds hidden or unknown information. A reconstruction with all the actual witnesses involved is a tool to achieve that objective.

Who 'hid' the crèche records which must have contained the name of an important witness?

[faithlilly]

Who somehow managed to achieve a result without recourse to a physical reconstruction.

The wonders of modern technology and computer models combined with good old detection techniques perhaps. 

I would also be of the opinion that there was a measure of cooperation and exchange of information between SY and the PJ, who were reported by residents as walking through areas connected with Madeleine's case doing their own reconstitution prior to Portugal reopening her case.

I know you won't provide one but you can't blame a girl for trying ! So here goes.........!

' SY and the PJ, who were reported by residents as walking through areas connected with Madeleine's case doing their own reconstitution prior to Portugal reopening her case '

Cite please ?

[pathfinder73]

Why wasn't his identity known at the time?

The crèche records didn't suddenly materialise when Operation Grange started looking into Madeleine's case ... they were in existence from 3rd May 2007 onwards ... the information was to hand for the reconstruction and there was no reason for the PJ not to have identified him in time for the invitation to go out.

Didn't LP have it like the Gaspar statements? Why didn't they forward it on as top priority - a man who said he was carrying a child past that apartment! LP what the hell were they doing?

"The innocent dad came forward in 2007 to say he was the person seen carrying a child in Portugal at the time the three-year-old vanished.

Following Madeleine’s disappearance, Leicestershire police were responsible for collating all UK-based inquiries at the request of the Portuguese authorities.

It is not clear if the questionnaires were analysed by the British force or simply forwarded to Portugal."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/editors-picks/madeleine-mccann-bungling-police-prime-2965027

[Brietta]

We don't know how SY came to that conclusion, so it is wrong to assume that they did a computer simulation in order to do so.

So  is HOLMES just a big expensive piece of modern art ... just for looking at but not to be used?  Or do your local police still use quills and carrier pigeons?

[jassi]

I'm sure Holmes is very useful. That does not prove that it was used to come to the conclusion about Tannermans movements.

[Brietta]

I know you won't provide one but you can't blame a girl for trying ! So here goes.........!

' SY and the PJ, who were reported by residents as walking through areas connected with Madeleine's case doing their own reconstitution prior to Portugal reopening her case '

Cite please ?

Portuguese police held their own Madeleine McCann reconstruction

A RECONSTRUCTION by Portuguese detectives of key events on the day Madeleine McCann went missing has helped persuade the country's legal offi-cials to re-open the case, we reveal today.

Published: 04:43, Sun, October 27, 2013

The detectives, who have been reviewing the case files for two years, went to Praia da Luz on the Algarve a month ago to pursue secret inquiries.

They spent hours walking around the Ocean Club working out where certain people were seen at particular times and at Apartment 5a, from where threeyear-old Madeleine went missing on May 3, 2007.

The exercise was the culmination of months of work by four Portuguese detectives based in Porto in the north of the country, who are directly working for the highly respected senior officer Helen Monteiro, an expert on abduction cases.

It is thought her elite team of dedicated officers has recently been concentrating on statements from witnesses who say they saw unknown people acting suspiciously in the resort around the time the child was missed. The work in Luz came before Scotland Yard released photofits of potential suspects on the BBC's Crimewatch show this month.

Ms Monteiro has insisted all her officers work in absolute secrecy to prevent leaks of their inquiries. It was decided officers in Porto should conduct the review as none had any direct involvement in the first Madeleine McCann investigation and would therefore approach the case with fresh eyes and open minds.

In Portugal, Ms Monteiro is seen as the driving force finally to get the Madeleine case files re-opened after five years, rather than through the efforts of Scotland Yard. She and her team are working separately from the Yard, although there is close liaison between the two.

Yesterday Portuguese Justice Minister Paula Teixeira da Cruz said the decision to reopen the case, taken last week, was due to the work of the Policia Judiciaria and not because of pressure from Scotland Yard. She said: "The PJ developed diligences that allowed for this process to be reopened. Often there are almost perfect crimes and not all of them are discovered all over the world. If the PJ requested the reopening, it has good motives to do so."

Portuguese law officials and senior officers in the PJ have been acutely aware of criticism of the initial police investigation and insist they are determined to solve the case.

Ms Teixeira da Cruz urged people to be "proud" of the work being done by the PJ, which she insisted had not been idle in seeking to solve the mystery.

For a time Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, were seen as arguidos or suspects but that status was lifted. Now they are being kept fully informed of all developments and were given a personal briefing of the work of the PJ in Lisbon last week.

The McCann's Portuguese lawyer, Rogerio Alves, is reportedly seeking for his clients to be "assistants" in the case. This would allow their lawyer to work closely with state prosecutors.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/439464/Portuguese-police-held-their-own-Madeleine-McCann-reconstruction

[faithlilly]

Portuguese police held their own Madeleine McCann reconstruction

A RECONSTRUCTION by Portuguese detectives of key events on the day Madeleine McCann went missing has helped persuade the country's legal offi-cials to re-open the case, we reveal today.

Published: 04:43, Sun, October 27, 2013

The detectives, who have been reviewing the case files for two years, went to Praia da Luz on the Algarve a month ago to pursue secret inquiries.

They spent hours walking around the Ocean Club working out where certain people were seen at particular times and at Apartment 5a, from where threeyear-old Madeleine went missing on May 3, 2007.

The exercise was the culmination of months of work by four Portuguese detectives based in Porto in the north of the country, who are directly working for the highly respected senior officer Helen Monteiro, an expert on abduction cases.

It is thought her elite team of dedicated officers has recently been concentrating on statements from witnesses who say they saw unknown people acting suspiciously in the resort around the time the child was missed. The work in Luz came before Scotland Yard released photofits of potential suspects on the BBC's Crimewatch show this month.

Ms Monteiro has insisted all her officers work in absolute secrecy to prevent leaks of their inquiries. It was decided officers in Porto should conduct the review as none had any direct involvement in the first Madeleine McCann investigation and would therefore approach the case with fresh eyes and open minds.

In Portugal, Ms Monteiro is seen as the driving force finally to get the Madeleine case files re-opened after five years, rather than through the efforts of Scotland Yard. She and her team are working separately from the Yard, although there is close liaison between the two.

Yesterday Portuguese Justice Minister Paula Teixeira da Cruz said the decision to reopen the case, taken last week, was due to the work of the Policia Judiciaria and not because of pressure from Scotland Yard. She said: "The PJ developed diligences that allowed for this process to be reopened. Often there are almost perfect crimes and not all of them are discovered all over the world. If the PJ requested the reopening, it has good motives to do so."

Portuguese law officials and senior officers in the PJ have been acutely aware of criticism of the initial police investigation and insist they are determined to solve the case.

Ms Teixeira da Cruz urged people to be "proud" of the work being done by the PJ, which she insisted had not been idle in seeking to solve the mystery.

For a time Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, were seen as arguidos or suspects but that status was lifted. Now they are being kept fully informed of all developments and were given a personal briefing of the work of the PJ in Lisbon last week.

The McCann's Portuguese lawyer, Rogerio Alves, is reportedly seeking for his clients to be "assistants" in the case. This would allow their lawyer to work closely with state prosecutors.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/439464/Portuguese-police-held-their-own-Madeleine-McCann-reconstruction

Three problems with your cite.

It's the Express.

No mention of cooperation with SY.

Oh and it's the Express !

[Alfred R Jones]

Three problems with your cite.

It's the Express.

No mention of cooperation with SY.

Oh and it's the Express !

Is that the Express that confidently predicted that Amaral was going to win the court case...?

[faithlilly]

Is that the Express that confidently predicted that Amaral was going to win the court case...?

I think the Star and the Mail also carried the story, direct quotes n all !

[Alice Purjorick]

If you care to diss discuss the relevance or not of parts of a particular post do feel free(dom of speech and all that) to do just that. 
Rhetorical questions are fine ... but there seems to be a bit of a trend in asking them.

For future reference and for your information ... if I go to the bother of posting it by definition I believe it is relevant ... if you think otherwise ... do discuss.

For example ... I think it is entirely relevant to point out that of late there is an apparent concerted effort by one or two posters to disrupt this forum ... whether that is by accident or design is all a matter of opinion.

That is not answering the question I asked. It may be relevant in your opinion but my question was "is it relevant"?
A reasonable enough question I would have thought.
Who do you believe is trying to disrupt this forum? have you complained to Admin about it? Or is it a case of one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter?

[Benice]

But isn't that the whole point Alfredo?  The reconstruction involving the original participants was a necessary exercise to establish who was lying through their teeth.

Could you give an example of what could happen during a recon which would prove that someone was lying through their teeth please?        I can't think of anything.

[Angelo222]

Which is what I said earlier - the reconstruction was nothing about looking for a child and everything about trying to prove a thesis.  What if no one was lying, have you ever considered that?  I know it's hard for you to do so, but do try.

It was about investigating a possible crime but those persons asked to attend decided it wouldn't take place with their help.   In my book that is both suspicious and sinister and that is why so many people don't believe them.   Their sad excuses for not going back to Luz are pitiful to say the least, I do hope they have a conscience.

[misty]

It was about investigating a possible crime but those persons asked to attend decided it wouldn't take place with their help.   In my book that is both suspicious and sinister and that is why so many people don't believe them.   Their sad excuses for not going back to Luz are pitiful to say the least, I do hope they have a conscience.

ROB & JT were both absent from the dining table for longer than it took to perform  cursory child checks. JT remained in her apartment after the alarm was raised. In the light of the allegations made against their friends, Kate & Gerry, whose movements were witnessed between 8.30 & 10pm, would anyone seriously have gone back to participate in a reconstitution which the PJ could have then used to "develop evidence" against them?

[Angelo222]

ROB & JT were both absent from the dining table for longer than it took to perform  cursory child checks. JT remained in her apartment after the alarm was raised. In the light of the allegations made against their friends, Kate & Gerry, whose movements were witnessed between 8.30 & 10pm, would anyone seriously have gone back to participate in a reconstitution which the PJ could have then used to "develop evidence" against them?

Why yes certainly.  It is normal to suspect the parents in this sort of case and especially so when the evidence being accumulated pointed to something other than an abduction.