Author Topic: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.  (Read 323861 times)

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Offline Albertini

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #375 on: June 11, 2014, 01:21:13 PM »
So you're quoting the Mirror, quoting the Sunday People.... Yeah...

Where in this statement does CM say that lawyers would block them returning for a reconstruction? What's the context of this quote? Answering a question from a hack as to whether they intended to return to PdL at some point to visit the place / friends or for a reconstruction?

The McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "If they returned now to Portugal it would be a distraction and would put pressure on police.

Their lawyers would block it anyway.

"But once their arguido status has been lifted, they will feel differently.

"They have discussed the possibility of returning but nothing has yet been agreed."


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/kate-and-gerry-mccann-to-be-cleared-1651964#ixzz34K7ai0E4
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Desperation! Look at the date of the article. 6th April. Mitchell quoted directly by the paper not as a "source close to the family" or a "pal" but by name. 

The first emails started being exchanged on the 20th April some two weeks later to arrange the reconstitution and whilst there is no paper trail its probably safe to assume discussions took place before the 20th.

Given that they would have to go back to Portugal to perform the reconstruction Mitchell saying their lawyers would block any move to return to Portugal "now" is by definition a rejection of taking part in the reconstruction, because if your lawyers block you going back to Portugal they are blocking you from taking part in the reconstruction that is being held in that country aren't they?

Deary me.

Offline Albertini

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #376 on: June 11, 2014, 01:22:31 PM »

Reading up... Yes, my question is the same.

See my post above this one.

If your lawyers block you from going to Portugal they are blocking you from taking part in a police diligence in that country aren't they?

Offline Albertini

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #377 on: June 11, 2014, 02:58:14 PM »
Because of this statement from DCI Redwood:

''We have conducted a forensic analysis of the timelines and there is clearly opportunity for Madeleine McCann to have been removed from that apartment alive.''
Unquote.

How could an accurate physical recon. take place if people could only give approximate times of their movements?

I ask again.

How would Jez Wilkins know what time to set out - if didn't know the exact time to begin with,   What if he guessed the wrong time and because he was a couple of minutes out - he missed Gerry altogether?   How would the PJ advise him to proceed if he pointed this out to them? 

The same applies to other witnesses who no doubt would be asking the same question about which part of their approximate times they gave in their statements they should use.  What would the PJ say to them?

Benice

Just because you don't know how or can't see the merits of why is neither here nor there in the scheme of things.

This is a diligence which is in the Penal Code because clearly the Portuguese feel there is some benefit in these types of practices actually helping an investigation move forward.

They are professional investigators and will have done this kind of thing before.

It's a bit disingenuous of you to be questioning and second guessing why  it was asked for, how it would have worked and what the benefit was given you are not Portuguese nor a detective.

Leave it to the experts, just go along with it, and everything else asked,  to help keep the search for your missing child alive.

As Ferryman has kindly pointed out the friends refusal to take part coupled with Mitchell's statement that the McCann's lawyers would block their return to Portugal PREVENTED the Portuguese from discovering the same window of opportunity in the timelines that SY say they have found 7 years later.

That's the real killer blow which has come out of this thread.

I am still gobsmacked by the significance of it and surprised that it hasn't come up before.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 03:00:38 PM by Albertini »

Offline Eleanor

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #378 on: June 11, 2014, 03:02:23 PM »
Benice

Just because you don't know how or can't see the merits of why is neither here nor there in the scheme of things.

This is a diligence which is in the Penal Code because clearly the Portuguese feel there is some benefit in these types of practices actually helping an investigation move forward.

They are professional investigators and will have done this kind of thing before.

It's a bit disingenuous of you to be questioning and second guessing why  it was asked for, how it would have worked and what the benefit was given you are not Portuguese nor a detective.

Leave it to the experts, just go along with it, and everything else asked,  to help keep the search for your missing child alive.

As Ferryman has kindly pointed out the friends refusal to take part coupled with Mitchell's statement that the McCann's lawyers would block their return to Portugal PREVENTED the Portuguese from discovering the same window of opportunity in the timelines that SY say they have found 7 years later.

That's the real killer blow which has come out of this thread.

I am still gobsmacked by the significance of it and surprised that it hasn't come up before.

Can you explain to me why Amaral refused to do a reconstruction in the beginning when it might have been of some help?

Offline Brietta

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #379 on: June 11, 2014, 03:04:50 PM »
Benice

Just because you don't know how or can't see the merits of why is neither here nor there in the scheme of things.

This is a diligence which is in the Penal Code because clearly the Portuguese feel there is some benefit in these types of practices actually helping an investigation move forward.

They are professional investigators and will have done this kind of thing before.

It's a bit disingenuous of you to be questioning and second guessing why  it was asked for, how it would have worked and what the benefit was given you are not Portuguese nor a detective.

Leave it to the experts, just go along with it, and everything else asked,  to help keep the search for your missing child alive.

As Ferryman has kindly pointed out the friends refusal to take part coupled with Mitchell's statement that the McCann's lawyers would block their return to Portugal PREVENTED the Portuguese from discovering the same window of opportunity in the timelines that SY say they have found 7 years later.

That's the real killer blow which has come out of this thread.

I am still gobsmacked by the significance of it and surprised that it hasn't come up before.

There was no impediment involved when Dr Amaral conducted a reconstruction for his documentary on Portuguese television.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline jassi

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #380 on: June 11, 2014, 03:06:31 PM »
There was no impediment involved when Dr Amaral conducted a reconstruction for his documentary on Portuguese television.

He was a private citizen so, like the McCanns, would have no restrictions
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Brietta

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #381 on: June 11, 2014, 03:08:27 PM »
He was a private citizen so, like the McCanns, would have no restrictions

Exactly what were the restrictions he was working under in May 2007?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Albertini

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #382 on: June 11, 2014, 03:10:33 PM »
Can you explain to me why Amaral refused to do a reconstruction in the beginning when it might have been of some help?

You are confusing a Portuguese penal code reconstitution with a Crime watch style TV reconstruction. 

They are not the same thing, despite what a certain spokesman tried to claim during the period that the PJ were trying to arrange their reconstitution.


Offline jassi

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #383 on: June 11, 2014, 03:11:08 PM »
Exactly what were the restrictions he was working under in May 2007?

Was he not then a serving police officer, rather than a private citizen?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #384 on: June 11, 2014, 03:13:07 PM »
You are confusing a Portuguese penal code reconstitution with a Crime watch style TV reconstruction. 

They are not the same thing, despite what a certain spokesman tried to claim during the period that the PJ were trying to arrange their reconstitution.

The alleged purpose of a "reconstitution" is to determine guilt or innocence.

Mission impossible ...

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #385 on: June 11, 2014, 03:13:14 PM »
Benice

Just because you don't know how or can't see the merits of why is neither here nor there in the scheme of things.

This is a diligence which is in the Penal Code because clearly the Portuguese feel there is some benefit in these types of practices actually helping an investigation move forward.

They are professional investigators and will have done this kind of thing before.

It's a bit disingenuous of you to be questioning and second guessing why  it was asked for, how it would have worked and what the benefit was given you are not Portuguese nor a detective.

Leave it to the experts, just go along with it, and everything else asked,  to help keep the search for your missing child alive.

As Ferryman has kindly pointed out the friends refusal to take part coupled with Mitchell's statement that the McCann's lawyers would block their return to Portugal PREVENTED the Portuguese from discovering the same window of opportunity in the timelines that SY say they have found 7 years later.

That's the real killer blow which has come out of this thread.

I am still gobsmacked by the significance of it and surprised that it hasn't come up before.

On what basis do you claim that the Portuguese investigators were experts...as I understand amaral had almost no experience of a crime of this kind...unless you count the cipriano case where amaral received a criminal conviction for his role in the case...hardly the mark of an expert....as I understand the team were woefully inexperienced

Offline Brietta

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #386 on: June 11, 2014, 03:13:59 PM »
Was he not then a serving police officer, rather than a private citizen?

Indeed he was, Jassi, and he was the serving police officer with the power to call a reconstruction.

He did not do it.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #387 on: June 11, 2014, 03:16:30 PM »
You are confusing a Portuguese penal code reconstitution with a Crime watch style TV reconstruction. 

They are not the same thing, despite what a certain spokesman tried to claim during the period that the PJ were trying to arrange their reconstitution.

So why didn't Amaral arrange a Reconstitution.  He was in charge, after all.  And at the beginning was the time to do it.  A year later was far too late.

Offline jassi

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #388 on: June 11, 2014, 03:16:51 PM »
Indeed he was, Jassi, and he was the serving police officer with the power to call a reconstruction.

He did not do it.

Did the power lie with him, or would he have needed to apply to the court ?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Brietta

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #389 on: June 11, 2014, 03:18:59 PM »
Did the power lie with him, or would he have needed to apply to the court ?

Please read the files ... there is quite a bit of information there, that's where I got mine
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....