Author Topic: Lies about Sheila's mental health  (Read 32953 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2020, 07:51:17 AM »
In response to posts on the other thread that schizophrenics don't murder, of course they do.

The case of Rachel James throws up some interesting features:

- Adopted at birth
- Diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia
- Reunited with her birth mother
- Used recreational drugs
- Murdered one of her young sons.  Attempted to murder the other. Attempted suicide.

If you believe SC was responsible, as I do, it seems to present a mirror image.  Rachel James didn't have access to a firearm but had she done she would undoubtedly have murdered both sons and taken her own life at that time.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rachel-james-grieving-dad-hits-123282
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2020, 09:28:09 AM »
I am well aware the blood was given to the police who in turn sent it to the lab.

How was it packaged?  In  asealed container and then all 3 samples in a sealed bad.  So the lab would be aware if the bag had been opened let alone any of the samples touched.

Is there any evidence that any of the samples were in fact touched?  No

I had this very debate last week on blue.

Moreover, the blood itself was sprayed into the barrel of the suppressor not merely dripped in using a dropepr or poured out of a vial.  This requires skill to accomplish if it can in fact be done. The lab would have needed to orchestrate any doctoring of evidence.  The same thing you rely on makes clear Davidson and other police had no clue as to why the suppressor would be siginficant let alone what that significance was.

The lab kew the significance only because they understood 1) there was a contact wound, 2) that such contact wound would result in drawnback and 3) that such drawback would be in the weapon if it had been used without a suppressor or in the suppressor if the suppressor had been used. So only the lab understood the significance and thus only the lab would have had the understanding and opportunity to doctor the rifle itself by eliminating blood found inside and then planting blood in the suppressor.  Only they would knwo to plant it let alone know how and again no one has demonstrated the ability to spray it inside to be distributed in the manner found.  There are no documented cases of this ever.

The other piece of evidence she cna't have killed herself is that her body was moved after she died.  She was seated when shot, bled for a short while and then was moved flat. 

When you factor all the other problems with Jeremy's claims in from staging the box of bullets to Nevill having no reason to call to his reactions not being how someone in his place would act after receiving such a call it becomes even more apparent his claims were a farce and he framed Sheila.

The leap of faith involves insisting that this evidence that proves she didn't shoot herself was doctored by police and the claims of the family and Julie were all lies and that while his claims make no sense and actions make no sense he is nonetheless innocent.

People on the other side ar enot taking  aleap of faith but being guided my evidence.

The problem with the police planting claim is tha tthere is no evidence at all to support it and it would require a grand conspiracy including a planting of blood never documented ever before.

There has to be some evidence to establish such or it simply is a leap of faith of major proportions.

The wacky claims involve things like June shooting them, police shooting her and other things of that nature.

The pro-jeremy camp is actively looking for evidence to exonerate Jeremy not trying to look objectively at the evidence to make an objective assessment.  The Davidson statement is a perfect example.  Peopel who insisted Jeremy wa sinnocent were not relying on the Davidson statement originally.  They did not come to their consclusion he was innocent in part because of it.  They simply encountered it and said aha look here is someplace the blood that we assert was planted could have come from.  They didn't know about it all along and say this is why they think the blood was planted.  So what this illustrates is the bias that is driving pro-bamber supporters.  They are not being driven by evidence but rather trying to cherry pick what they can to support what they decided ahead of time they want to believe.

Someone objective on the other hand requires evidence that the seals on the samples had been broken and blood thus could have been missing.  There needs to be more than that the police were among the chain of custody of the evidence.

You criticize me for being objective and requiring proof of things.

For instance, yes an anti-Jeremy author claimed Jeremy won a marksman badge while at boarding school.  He claimed the scool records prove it.  These school records were not published though to prove it.  School transcripts do not usually include badges that are won. There might be a document provided to the student anouncing it but it would not be on a transcript.  So one has to wonder what records he saw and how he had access to records that would be private and need some special disclosure.  Authors claim lots of things, I have studied hisotry since a child and read countless books full of claims outright false or that can't be confimred one way or another. An author making a claim doesn't make it true we have to be careful about what is a sourced claim and not.  Some people will rely only on an author making a claim. I will not. Unless a claim is footnoted and I can check the footnote to make sure it is right I will not trust it. Part of my job working at school on a history journal and late rin law school on a law journal was ot check footnotes for accuracy.  Peoplr submit articles and we had to verify the claims they made were actually backed up by their footnotes.  We had to go locate and read the cited source to see if the proposition asserted is ruly there.  Half the time it wasn't.  Sometimes they cited the wrong case and meant to cite another.  Other times they grossly twisted what their source actually was saying. Just because I believe Jeremy is guilty doesn't mean I will toss in evidence that might be bogus to pile on.  I don't need to pile on.

People are not accustomed to dealing with a stickler like me but I am this way for a reason. To many untrue things end up clouding the actual facts if one is not like that.

The Amityville horror murder case has had some books published lately with incredibly false claims and a 4 part documentary is being made based on the worst book (2 parts were released so far).  The book and documentary asserts the convicted killer was married at the time of the murders and presents her account of the family, trial  and various other events.  She didn't meet him until 1985 and marry him until 1989.  The murders were in 1974 and his conviction 1975.  She never med the victims her whole tale is a lie.  The author and publisher/producers intentioanlly presented the story of a liar.  Countless people have been taken in my their snake pil who are unaware that her claims are all bunk.  The convicted killer drastically revised what happened the night of the murders in an attempt to get his conviction vacated.  It was exposed as lies in court.  The book took these disproved claims and published them along with others.  There are people conviced DeFeo's sister killed the parents and siblings because of a book claiming such which in part quoted fake legal documents.

I didn't come to my position on Jeremy's guilt through blind faith it was after careful consideration of the relevant facts that could be satisfactorily established based on evidence.

   

I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded text.
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Offline mrswah

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Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2020, 11:10:51 AM »
The case of Rachel James throws up some interesting features:

- Adopted at birth
- Diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia
- Reunited with her birth mother
- Used recreational drugs
- Murdered one of her young sons.  Attempted to murder the other. Attempted suicide.

If you believe SC was responsible, as I do, it seems to present a mirror image.  Rachel James didn't have access to a firearm but had she done she would undoubtedly have murdered both sons and taken her own life at that time.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rachel-james-grieving-dad-hits-123282


That is absolutely awful.

I do wonder what would have been said about Sheila had she survived the WHF massacre.  IMO, it's easier to blame/condemn somebody if they are alive. 

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #48 on: June 19, 2020, 07:53:55 PM »
Like eveything else psychology and psychiatry has moved on since JB's trial.

Dr Ferguson diagnosed SC with paranoid schizophrenia but how do we know she wasn't comorbid?

If SC was responsible what's to say her actions had nothing to do with her diagnosis?


Dr Ferguson never diagnosed Sheila with Paranoid Schizophrenia: he diagnosed her with “MILD Schizophrenia “

She displayed no symptoms of other MH issues, and most certainly wasn’t diagnosed a PSYCHOPATH

You’re now trying to suggest maybe Sheila had other issues, and the reason you’re doing that is you’re desperate to try and pin the murders on her, despite the courts proving irrefutably that Jeremy was GUILTY

You’re coming up with wishful thinking scenarios because in YOUR head you don’t want to accept the FACT Jeremy is a mass murderer, despite it being proved beyond all doubt that he is.

I thought you didn’t like hypothesis? I thought you only wanted FACTS with cites. Yet you post up imaginary ideas from your own head, and find that acceptable even though they’re laughably wrong
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #49 on: June 19, 2020, 07:55:00 PM »
In response to posts on the other thread that schizophrenics don't murder, of course they do.

Nowhere near as frequently as psychopaths do...
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2020, 07:56:23 PM »
Robert Napper.

ONE psychopath

He killed RANDOM women
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2020, 08:01:48 PM »
The case of Rachel James throws up some interesting features:

- Adopted at birth
- Diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia
- Reunited with her birth mother
- Used recreational drugs
- Murdered one of her young sons.  Attempted to murder the other. Attempted suicide.

If you believe SC was responsible, as I do, it seems to present a mirror image.  Rachel James didn't have access to a firearm but had she done she would undoubtedly have murdered both sons and taken her own life at that time.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rachel-james-grieving-dad-hits-123282



Why do you keep banging on about adoptive children?

Adoptive children grow up in warm loving homes with parents who adore and nurture them. How many weirdos seek to adopt a child? Maybe one in a million.

Whatever, Jeremy Bamber is an evil psychopath and even his own biological father said that. So what does that tell you? Or are you saying you know better than him?
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline APRIL

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2020, 08:18:42 PM »


Why do you keep banging on about adoptive children?

Adoptive children grow up in warm loving homes with parents who adore and nurture them. How many weirdos seek to adopt a child? Maybe one in a million.

Whatever, Jeremy Bamber is an evil psychopath and even his own biological father said that. So what does that tell you? Or are you saying you know better than him?


The trouble is, Spy, providing the prospective parents were financially comfortable and regular church goers, their suitability as parents wasn't gone into. Few of them fitted the bill as "weirdos".....................Oh, and for the record, I take great exception to your casual and thoughtless comment that "Adoptive children grow up in warm loving homes with parents who adore and nurture them" and don't you DARE tell me how many such you know personally. Good luck to those. Many DON'T!!!!!

Offline Caroline

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #53 on: June 19, 2020, 08:26:13 PM »
I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded text.

Unless of course the author writes something you agree with! A person making a statement doesn't make it true either - but you pick and choose from those also. Basically, you would only believe something it followed your line of thought making the effort of posting cites (in your case - and a few others) ..... pointless.

Offline APRIL

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #54 on: June 19, 2020, 08:38:37 PM »
Unless of course the author writes something you agree with! A person making a statement doesn't make it true either - but you pick and choose from those also. Basically, you would only believe something it followed your line of thought making the effort of posting cites (in your case - and a few others) ..... pointless.


If one has gone to the effort of finding a cite, only to have it torn apart and criticized as meaningless, it's discouraging.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2020, 08:46:34 PM »

Dr Ferguson never diagnosed Sheila with Paranoid Schizophrenia: he diagnosed her with “MILD Schizophrenia “

She displayed no symptoms of other MH issues, and most certainly wasn’t diagnosed a PSYCHOPATH

You’re now trying to suggest maybe Sheila had other issues, and the reason you’re doing that is you’re desperate to try and pin the murders on her, despite the courts proving irrefutably that Jeremy was GUILTY

You’re coming up with wishful thinking scenarios because in YOUR head you don’t want to accept the FACT Jeremy is a mass murderer, despite it being proved beyond all doubt that he is.

I thought you didn’t like hypothesis? I thought you only wanted FACTS with cites. Yet you post up imaginary ideas from your own head, and find that acceptable even though they’re laughably wrong

May I suggest you check your sources before making assertions? Dr Ferguson diagnosed Sheila Caffell with paranoid
schizophrenia in 1983. 
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Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Caroline

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2020, 09:40:52 PM »
The case of Rachel James throws up some interesting features:

- Adopted at birth
- Diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia
- Reunited with her birth mother
- Used recreational drugs
- Murdered one of her young sons.  Attempted to murder the other. Attempted suicide.

If you believe SC was responsible, as I do, it seems to present a mirror image.  Rachel James didn't have access to a firearm but had she done she would undoubtedly have murdered both sons and taken her own life at that time.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rachel-james-grieving-dad-hits-123282

And someone else who failed to take their medication

https://www.heart.co.uk/dunstable/news/local/inquest-woman-burned-train/

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2020, 12:56:27 AM »

The trouble is, Spy, providing the prospective parents were financially comfortable and regular church goers, their suitability as parents wasn't gone into. Few of them fitted the bill as "weirdos".....................Oh, and for the record, I take great exception to your casual and thoughtless comment that "Adoptive children grow up in warm loving homes with parents who adore and nurture them" and don't you DARE tell me how many such you know personally. Good luck to those. Many DON'T!!!!!


April, don’t tell ME what I can say! Who do you think you are?

I’m speaking from personal experience, OK?!

If you think married couples jump through hoops to adopt a child without WANTING a child to love, you must have a strange  thought process.

ALL families, regardless of whether they’ve been adopted, can have problems.

And don’t you DARE tell me that MANY adoptive children are brought up by weirdos!

That’s utter nonsense. You can’t tar EVERYONE with the same brush. If you had an unfortunate upbringing you were unlucky, but you’re in the minority.

Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline APRIL

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #58 on: June 20, 2020, 07:17:25 AM »

April, don’t tell ME what I can say! Who do you think you are?

I’m speaking from personal experience, OK?!

If you think married couples jump through hoops to adopt a child without WANTING a child to love, you must have a strange  thought process.

ALL families, regardless of whether they’ve been adopted, can have problems.

And don’t you DARE tell me that MANY adoptive children are brought up by weirdos!

That’s utter nonsense. You can’t tar EVERYONE with the same brush. If you had an unfortunate upbringing you were unlucky, but you’re in the minority.


"You can't tar EVERYONE with the same brush"!!!!! That's EXACTLY what you're doing when you claim that ALL adopted children are bought up by loving parents -and bear in mind whilst you're mouthing off at me, that "weirdos" is your own, all encompassing expression, NOT mine.

 Do you know that there's a counselling agency dedicated to those who've been damaged by adoption? They wouldn't do that for a handful. Do you have such an overblown sense of your own self importance that you believe you're the only one here to have any personal experiences which matter? I can only speak from personal experience, OK! It's my only frame of reference. I'm fully aware that ALL families have problems. I'm only talking about families which include adopted children, NOR am I talking about what happens now -hopefully, they're more careful about where, and with whom, children are placed.

Do I "think married couples jump through hoops to adopt a child without WANTING a child to love"? Sadly, some do. Some are prepared to put up with the mess and inconvenience they believe a small child will cause because they believe the child, as an adult, will be useful to them later. Their plans for the child stretch no further than it giving up it's right to a full life by becoming their full time carer -without asking it's permission- on the grounds they'd believe it would want to out of gratitude.

The ignorance, behind your blind belief that everything in the adoption garden is rosy, is an insult to those for whom it's been anything but.

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2020, 09:45:44 AM »

"You can't tar EVERYONE with the same brush"!!!!! That's EXACTLY what you're doing when you claim that ALL adopted children are bought up by loving parents -and bear in mind whilst you're mouthing off at me, that "weirdos" is your own, all encompassing expression, NOT mine.

 Do you know that there's a counselling agency dedicated to those who've been damaged by adoption? They wouldn't do that for a handful. Do you have such an overblown sense of your own self importance that you believe you're the only one here to have any personal experiences which matter? I can only speak from personal experience, OK! It's my only frame of reference. I'm fully aware that ALL families have problems. I'm only talking about families which include adopted children, NOR am I talking about what happens now -hopefully, they're more careful about where, and with whom, children are placed.

Do I "think married couples jump through hoops to adopt a child without WANTING a child to love"? Sadly, some do. Some are prepared to put up with the mess and inconvenience they believe a small child will cause because they believe the child, as an adult, will be useful to them later. Their plans for the child stretch no further than it giving up it's right to a full life by becoming their full time carer -without asking it's permission- on the grounds they'd believe it would want to out of gratitude.

The ignorance, behind your blind belief that everything in the adoption garden is rosy, is an insult to those for whom it's been anything but.



So you’re saying married couples adopt a young child, go through all the hard work of bringing them up, including the huge financial costs, just so they can look after them when they become old and infirm?!

Never thought of that one before, and your suggestion couples give up their freedom, devote time to raising their adopted child, spending hundreds of thousands doing it — just so they can become personal careers for when THEY’RE older is not only a strange reason — it doesn’t add up!

Why not save all those hundreds of thousands and employ a personal live-in carer when they’re older?!

You talk as though some couples adopt to get themselves a slave. How about people who “adopt” animals? Are they after a slave? When couples can’t adopt a child they often compensate by buying themselves a pet — who they usually ADORE and spoil. If you’re saying humans aren’t capable of loving their adopted child as much as a dog or a cat, we will have to agree to disagree.

You’re also forgetting that if a couple adopt a child who’s, say, a toddler or older, then often that child will already be damaged in some way. Maybe you’re taking statistics from that group, rather than where couples adopt BABIES (such as the Bambers’ did) in which they haven’t been subjected to a horrendous upbringing by a parent who could be a drug addict, mentally unstable, cruel, neglectful etc. Of course those children will already be affected, and that’ll make the adoption process harder. But adopting a baby doesn’t bring with it the trauma the child may have been subjected to.
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.