When did Gerry first learn about Jane Tanner's sighting?

[Benice]

I'm sorry Benice but you are not using logic but simply believing what you want to believe.

By shortly after ten several of the friends knew about Tanner's sighting yet none of them :

A. Mentioned the sighting to Gerry. In fact as Gerry was on the same street at the same time wouldn't the logical thing to do ( and remember most of his friends were doctors working in a high pressure environment ) was ask Gerry if he'd also seen the man ? If he had then it would be fairly obvious it wasn't Madeleine and the sighting could, at a stroke, have been ruled out. So why wasn't the question asked ?
B. Searched in the direction that Tanner said the man was going in

You have missed the point completely.  People under great stress as a result of a huge shock do not think logically.

The fact that they are doctors is completely irrelevant.    They are not policemen and the only  people who one would expect to behave logically and calmly at such a time would be the police.   However, the GNR behaved similarly to the McCanns and went through 5A seaching for Madeline - instead of cordoning the place off. 

The McCanns and their friends can be excused for reacting like parents in shock - because that is what they all were.    The police's reaction cannot be excused IMO.

Do you really think that if a Fireman turned up to a blaze to find it was his own house and his own children were inside he would be able to behave in exactly the same way as any other blaze involving children which he had attended -  and that he would not be greatly affected?     It's a preposterous suggestion imo.

[faithlilly]

You have missed the point completely.  People under great stress as a result of a huge shock do not think logically.

The fact that they are doctors is completely irrelevant.    They are not policemen and the only  people who one would expect to behave logically and calmly at such a time would be the police.   However, the GNR behaved similarly to the McCanns and went through 5A seaching for Madeline - instead of cordoning the place off. 

The McCanns and their friends can be excused for reacting like parents in shock - because that is what they all were.    The police's reaction cannot be excused IMO.

Do you really think that if a Fireman turned up to a blaze to find it was his own house and his own children were inside he would be able to behave in exactly the same way as any other blaze involving children which he had attended -  and that he would not be greatly affected?     It's a preposterous suggestion imo.

The fact that they were doctor's is not completely relevant and as Gerry observed in a recent interview, many of their actions were indeed driven by their training in emergency situations.

"SF: But now when you look back, you realise it could be... could have been dangerous, for Sean and Amelie, to let them behind? No? No?

Gerry McCann: I don't think that... I don't think that's right and certainly in medical training, the first thing you get taught, in an emergency situation, is to call for help. That's part of... that gets drummed into you."

As to their friends, I thought most didn't know the McCanns or their children very well so it would seem to follow would be less emotionally involved and rather more clear thinking than say the Paynes.

[Benice]

The fact that they were doctor's is not completely relevant and as Gerry observed in a recent interview, many of their actions were indeed driven by their training in emergency situations.

"SF: But now when you look back, you realise it could be... could have been dangerous, for Sean and Amelie, to let them behind? No? No?

Gerry McCann: I don't think that... I don't think that's right and certainly in medical training, the first thing you get taught, in an emergency situation, is to call for help. That's part of... that gets drummed into you."

As to their friends, I thought most didn't know the McCanns or their children very well so it would seem to follow would be less emotionally involved and rather more clear thinking than say the Paynes.

Kates first reaction was to run to her husband.  I believe that is a natural response for any mother - regardless of her profession.    After the first frantic search the first thing Gerry did was ask for the police to be called.   But IMO he would have done that even if he wasn't a doctor.

The idea that the other members of the group would not be terribly shocked and panicked  - especially when it dawned on them (as it must have done) that it could have been THEIR child that was taken is ridiculous IMO.

I never cease to be amazed at how so many sceptics appear to have no ability to put themselves in another persons shoes.   Every parent's worst nightmare had just happened which quite obviously affected them all.   It's not called 'Every parent's WORST nightmare' for nothing.   And yet they were all expected to behave calmly and logically right from the onset by some.

As time progressed some of the group did calm down enough to start thinking more clearly - and they began to try to recall the timelines - and get them written down in order to help the police.

IMO their behaviour throughout - going from enjoying a perfectly relaxing evening one second to being plunged into utter and total shock a second later - and how they reacted to that shock was perfectly normal.

[faithlilly]

Kates first reaction was to run to her husband.  I believe that is a natural response for any mother - regardless of her profession.    After the first frantic search the first thing Gerry did was ask for the police to be called.   But IMO he would have done that even if he wasn't a doctor.

The idea that the other members of the group would not be terribly shocked and panicked  - especially when it dawned on them (as it must have done) that it could have been THEIR child that was taken is ridiculous IMO.

I never cease to be amazed at how so many sceptics appear to have no ability to put themselves in another persons shoes.   Every parent's worst nightmare had just happened which quite obviously affected them all.   It's not called 'Every parent's WORST nightmare' for nothing.   And yet they were all expected to behave calmly and logically right from the onset by some.

As time progressed some of the group did calm down enough to start thinking more clearly - and they began to try to recall the timelines - and get them written down in order to help the police.

IMO their behaviour throughout - going from enjoying a perfectly relaxing evening one second to being plunged into utter and total shock a second later - and how they reacted to that shock was perfectly normal.

Benice are you really trying to tell me that when Fiona, Rachel, Russell et al were told by Tanner that she had seen a man with a child earlier in the evening while Gerry was in the same street their first action wouldn't have been to ask Gerry if he had seen him too because I simply wouldn't believe you.

[slartibartfast]

Yes please, whatever you do, don't make any allowances for the McCanns or their friends to be in a state of shock or for events that night to have been chaotic, disorganised, confused, frantic.  That just won't do!

I do, that's why I am very sceptical of the timelines.

[icabodcrane]

I'm sorry Benice but you are not using logic but simply believing what you want to believe.

By shortly after ten several of the friends knew about Tanner's sighting yet none of them :

A. Mentioned the sighting to Gerry. In fact as Gerry was on the same street at the same time wouldn't the logical thing to do ( and remember most of his friends were doctors working in a high pressure environment ) was ask Gerry if he'd also seen the man ? If he had then it would be fairly obvious it wasn't Madeleine and the sighting could, at a stroke, have been ruled out. So why wasn't the question asked ?
B. Searched in the direction that Tanner said the man was going in

This is such a rational post I don't see how anyone could argue with it

The response seems to be,  though,  that the McCann's  friends were in such a state they were not behaving logically

Well, in Kate's book she describes a group who were behaving  very logically ;

( page 74  ...   before any police had arrived )

"Despite the horror of the situation,  some sense of the necessity to approach the crisis calmly and methodically appeared to kick in among our friends as they tried to exert a modicum of control over the chaos.  What could be done ?  What shouldbe done ? Aware that we were only an hour and a quarter's drive from southern Spain, and beyond that lay the borderless continent of Europe - not to mention the short hop across the Straight of Gibralter to north Africa - David was saying,  'we need roadblocks set up. The borders to Spain, Morocco and Algiers need to be alerted'  Russell later asked us for our digital photos of Madeleine and went off somewhere with our camera"

That doesn't sound like a group behaving ilogically  to me

[jassi]

This is such a rational post I don't see how anyone could argue with it

The response seems to be,  though,  that the McCann's  friends were in such a state they were not behaving logically

Well, in Kate's book she describes a group who were behaving  very logically ;

( page 74  ...   before any police had arrived )

"Despite the horror of the situation,  some sense of the necessity to approach the crisis calmly and methodically appeared to kick in among our friends as they tried to exert a modicum of control over the chaos.  What could be done ?  What shouldbe done ? Aware that we were only an hour and a quarter's drive from southern Spain, and beyond that lay the borderless continent of Europe - not to mention the short hop across the Straight of Gibralter to north Africa - David was saying,  'we need roadblocks set up. The borders to Spain, Morocco and Algiers need to be alerted'  Russell later asked us for our digital photos of Madeleine and went off somewhere with our camera"

That doesn't sound like a group behaving ilogically  to me

The McCanns might have been in pieces -  it was their child that was missing , but the others wouldn't necessarily have all been in a tailspin.

[Benice]

Benice are you really trying to tell me that when Fiona, Rachel, Russell et al were told by Tanner that she had seen a man with a child earlier in the evening while Gerry was in the same street their first action wouldn't have been to ask Gerry if he had seen him too because I simply wouldn't believe you.

It doesn't matter to me whether you believe me or not.   We don't know what JT said - she may not have mentioned seeing Gerry or Jez at all at that point - just that she had seen a man carrying a child on her way back to the apartment.   That would be uppermost in her mind at the time IMO.   Who knows.

You may profess to know exactly how people should behave in times of great stress and anxiety and what they should do and what they should say.  But I don't.  Stress and shock affect different people in different ways - who am I to specify that the only correct way for someone else to react to shock is how I think they should?   

[Benice]

This is such a rational post I don't see how anyone could argue with it

The response seems to be,  though,  that the McCann's  friends were in such a state they were not behaving logically

Well, in Kate's book she describes a group who were behaving  very logically ;

( page 74  ...   before any police had arrived )

"Despite the horror of the situation,  some sense of the necessity to approach the crisis calmly and methodically appeared to kick in among our friends as they tried to exert a modicum of control over the chaos[/b].  What could be done ?  What shouldbe done ? Aware that we were only an hour and a quarter's drive from southern Spain, and beyond that lay the borderless continent of Europe - not to mention the short hop across the Straight of Gibralter to north Africa - David was saying,  'we need roadblocks set up. The borders to Spain, Morocco and Algiers need to be alerted'  Russell later asked us for our digital photos of Madeleine and went off somewhere with our camera"

That doesn't sound like a group behaving ilogically  to me

You seem to have overlooked the reference to 'the chaos'.

[Martina]

You may profess to know exactly how people should behave in times of great stress and anxiety and what they should do and what they should say.  But I don't.  Stress and shock affect different people in different ways - who am I to specify that the only correct way for someone else to react to shock is how I think they should?   

I don't think that anyone here tries to say there was only one way to behave for the Tapas Group. People just ask why Jane Tanner did not tell McCanns what she said, immediately after the alarm was raised. I don't buy an argument about saving them the pain, because saving Madeleine was at that point infinitely more important. Her life was at stake!

And another question here is why the rationally behaving group (according to Kate McCann herself!) initially did not do anything with the Tanner sighting. Nobody mentioned it to the Maddie's parents, nobody serached in that direction. Why? Again, explanation that the people react differently in the traumatic situations does not cut it for me.

[Alfred R Jones]

I don't think it  is  feasible,  personally

It's what the tapas group  say  happened, and without evidence to the contrary we have to accept the possibility that Gerry McCann was not made aware of the man Jane saw until after 1.00am that morning

Is it  feasible though  ?

Is it feasible that members of  the group kept that crucial information from Gerry McCann for over three hours  ?   

I just don't think it is

If it's not feasible what do you think IS feasible then?  That they told him straight away?  Or what?

[Benice]

I don't think that anyone here tries to say there was only one way to behave for the Tapas Group. People just ask why Jane Tanner did not tell McCanns what she said, immediately after the alarm was raised. I don't buy an argument about saving them the pain, because saving Madeleine was at that point infinitely more important. Her life was at stake!

And another question here is why the rationally behaving group (according to Kate McCann herself!) initially did not do anything with the Tanner sighting. Nobody mentioned it to the Maddie's parents, nobody serached in that direction. Why? Again, explanation that the people react differently in the traumatic situations does not cut it for me.

All you are saying is that they didn't react how YOU think they should have - even though you were not there and are now talking with the benefit of hindsight which they did not have.   JT told the police as soon as they arrived.  What did they do about it?  Does anyone know?

[Martina]

All you are saying is that they didn't react how YOU think they should have - even though you were not there and are now talking with the benefit of hindsight which they did not have. 

What freaking hinsight? You don't need any hindsight to know, that after the daughter of your friends vanished from her bed in the middle of a night, an info about the man, carrying the child seen in the area is extremely important, and that the life of said daughter might be on stake. C'mon!

[Alfred R Jones]

What freaking hinsight? You don't need any hindsight to know, that after the daughter of your friends vanished from her bed in the middle of a night, an info about the man, carrying the child seen in the area is extremely important, and that the life of said daughter might be on stake. C'mon!

So, the fact that they didn't do as you think they should have done implies what, in your opinion?

[Martina]

So, the fact that they didn't do as you think they should have done implies what, in your opinion?

Does it have to imply anything? I just find it weird, among many other weird things in this case.