Author Topic: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002  (Read 21055 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2014, 04:01:22 PM »
The thought of a mother killing her children is I think always difficult to conceptualise as it goes against nature ie a mother protecting her offspring.  In SC's case sadly I do think she was responsible for murdering her boys and Nevill.  My posts on the  thread re June's mental illness explain why I believe SC was capable of such violence and taking her own life:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4513.msg163034#msg163034

I think it likely that SC showered and put on a clean nightie with bloody clothes placed in the buckets found in the kitchen by AE: 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3905.msg146309#msg146309


1) the only bloody clothes were panties and leggings that clearly had menstrual blood in them. Unless she committed the murders nude or topless such woudl not in any way acoc..t for the lack of any clothing with GSR or blood of the victims.  So this theory has no foundation at all.

2) aside from no clothing that she could have changed out of being found there is no reaosn at all for her shwoer and changed before killing herself.  You already failed miserably at finding any cases where someone murdered their family as you alleged happened here and then bathed and changed in order to commit suicide.  You presented bogus cases liek a guy who washed a car before killing his family and you falsely claimed he killed the fmaily then washed his car and cleaned up before killing himsel fbut in fact he killed them and himself the same location and himself right after.  He didn't wash up or change his clothes.

3) changing and washing can't heal wounds.  There is no way she coudl have beat Neville without breaking nails and cutting her hand when the stock broke exactly where she would have been holding it unless she was wearing gloves.  No gloves were found nor did she have any reason to be wearing any.

As i said you fialed miserably at fleshing out any arguments.  When challenged you also simply say you don't care you simply choose to believe what you want to believe.  That just means you are living in denial it doesn't mean there is a shred of evidence to estbalish Jeremy is innocent. 
 That doesn't acpoc..t in any way, shape or form for clothing that she woudl have had to have been wearing that would

“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2014, 06:21:42 PM »
1) the only bloody clothes were panties and leggings that clearly had menstrual blood in them. Unless she committed the murders nude or topless such woudl not in any way acoc..t for the lack of any clothing with GSR or blood of the victims.  So this theory has no foundation at all.

2) aside from no clothing that she could have changed out of being found there is no reaosn at all for her shwoer and changed before killing herself.  You already failed miserably at finding any cases where someone murdered their family as you alleged happened here and then bathed and changed in order to commit suicide.  You presented bogus cases liek a guy who washed a car before killing his family and you falsely claimed he killed the fmaily then washed his car and cleaned up before killing himsel fbut in fact he killed them and himself the same location and himself right after.  He didn't wash up or change his clothes.

3) changing and washing can't heal wounds.  There is no way she coudl have beat Neville without breaking nails and cutting her hand when the stock broke exactly where she would have been holding it unless she was wearing gloves.  No gloves were found nor did she have any reason to be wearing any.

As i said you fialed miserably at fleshing out any arguments.  When challenged you also simply say you don't care you simply choose to believe what you want to believe.  That just means you are living in denial it doesn't mean there is a shred of evidence to estbalish Jeremy is innocent. 
 That doesn't acpoc..t in any way, shape or form for clothing that she woudl have had to have been wearing that would

1) You have no proof that the buckets found in the kitchen with bloody water and clothes contained menstrual blood stained clothes as opposed to SC's clothes stained with blood from the victims. Just because SC was having a period, it does not follow that the blood staining was as a result of her period.  It is absolute madness these buckets were not removed for forensic examination.  A soc should be subjected to a careful forensic examination not assumptions.

The thread re the buckets of clothing:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3905.msg146309#msg146309

2) Prof Knight lent support to the idea of "ritualistic" cleansing.

91. Professor Knight, another defence witness, lent support to Dr Bradley's evidence as to the feature of excessive violence in parental killings. He also spoke of instances where the murderer (having killed their spouses in most cases) has then gone about some mundane or "ritualistic" task, such as cleaning up before committing suicide. In cross-examination he accepted the proposition contained in an article, which he himself had written some years earlier, that "women almost never commit suicide by shooting

3) Do you honestly think you know more than the pathologist Dr Vanezis?  If he thought that SC could not have carried out the murders/suicide without incurring any wounds he would say as much.  He doesn't.  In fact he goes further and when asked about her nails he says its falls under the expertise of ballistics but lol you know don't you?  I keep forgetting you are a lawyer, historian, ballistics expert, pathologist all rolled in one  @)(++(*

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=742

Are you able to provide any evidence from ballistics confirming that SC's nails would break?  This is just sexist rhetoric from men who have always totally dominated the case.  There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that a woman with manicured and varnished nails would be unable to carry out the murders/suicide and not keep her nails/varnish in tact. 

You make yourself look silly with your lengthy posts which contain no supporting links to anything.  Instead you are arrogant enough to think we should take everything you say at face value.  Even going as far as telling us you have a photographic memory.  Lol.  I would say selective rather than photographic  @)(++(*

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2014, 07:09:39 PM »
Anyway with regard to the thread title I was wondering if the advances made in psychology, psychiatry, neuro-science biology/chemistry might be new grounds for an appeal? 

I think it is important to determine exactly what the CCRC and CoA are looking for in terms of new evidence to quash a conviction.

Here's the link for the CCRC

https://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/about/criminal-cases-review/policies-and-procedures/ccrc-q-and-a.pdf

Page 2 explains "What is new evidence or legal argument"

The CoA are bound by the Criminal Appeal Act 1968 Section 23(2)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/19/section/23#commentary-c1424586

2)

The Court of Appeal shall, in considering whether to receive any evidence, have regard in particular to—
.
(a)
whether the evidence appears to the Court to be capable of belief;
.

(b)
whether it appears to the Court that the evidence may afford any ground for allowing the appeal;
.

(c)
whether the evidence would have been admissible in the proceedings from which the appeal lies on an issue which is the subject of the appeal; and
.

(d)
whether there is a reasonable explanation for the failure to adduce the evidence in those proceedings.

I wonder if there is grounds for the effects of June's mental illness on SC to overturn JB's conviction  >@@(*&)

I think its a possibility  8-)(--)

(a) Its capable of belief as it is supported by psychologists, psychiatrists and neuroscientists worldwide.

(b) Yes as it relates to SC's mental health and provides evidence of a propensity towards violence and suicide.  Dr Ferguson at trial told the jury that he did not regard SC as a suicide risk and that he found it difficult to conceptualise SC harming her children and father.  This was wrong.

(c) Yes as it relates to SC's mental health and provides evidence of a propensity towards violence and suicide

(d) Yes as it is based on new research and evidence produced since JB's trial:  June's depression circa 1959; the science of neglect in terms of unresponsiveness ie lack of "serve and return" changing/damaging brain architecture; and changing/damaging limbic system due to stress overload

 >@@(*&)

Here's the thread re the effects of June's mental illness on SC circa 1959:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4513.msg163034#msg163034

 >@@(*&)
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2014, 09:05:40 PM »
1) You have no proof that the buckets found in the kitchen with bloody water and clothes contained menstrual blood stained clothes as opposed to SC's clothes stained with blood from the victims. Just because SC was having a period, it does not follow that the blood staining was as a result of her period.  It is absolute madness these buckets were not removed for forensic examination.  A soc should be subjected to a careful forensic examination not assumptions.

The thread re the buckets of clothing:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3905.msg146309#msg146309


you are the one making assumptions not me.  You are the one who must prove the blood on the clothing was from the victims.

Not only can't you prove the blood could have come from any of the victims, you have no clothing in those buckets that would have had blood form any of the victims.

The only clothing identified was 2 pairs of panties with blood in the crotch area and a pair of leggings with blood in the crotch area. 

Sheila was on her period at the time as documented by the coroner,  the blood was in crotch areas and WHO wears 2 pairs of panties the same time?  Obviously the bleeding to both panties was at different times. 

You have no basis at ALL to suggest that these 2 pairs of panties and leggings were worn during the murders and got full of blood during the murders.  Your assumption that such could be the case is absurd.  Why and how would she get blood on her panties while shooting people or beating Nevill?

the place where blood would be MOST LIKELY to end up would be on whatever clothing was on th eupper portion of her body.  That is where back spatter is most likely to end up though spatter can also get on the outside of pants.  Stains of the kind identified are not spatter stains though.  They are stains from blleeding into clothing while wearing such.  Likewise gunshot residue would be found most likely on whatever was covering the top half of her body.  What clothing can you cite that could have been worn by her on the upper part of her body?  None. 

Your claims are a complete joke to anyone with half a brain.     


2) Prof Knight lent support to the idea of "ritualistic" cleansing.

91. Professor Knight, another defence witness, lent support to Dr Bradley's evidence as to the feature of excessive violence in parental killings. He also spoke of instances where the murderer (having killed their spouses in most cases) has then gone about some mundane or "ritualistic" task, such as cleaning up before committing suicide. In cross-examination he accepted the proposition contained in an article, which he himself had written some years earlier, that "women almost never commit suicide by shooting

His claims are a joke hence rejected.  His ritualistic theory applied to ritualistic killings but that was not the case with these murders.  He could not provide a SINGLE case where someone who decided to kill his/her family and then commit suicide showered to wash away all forensic evidence and then put on fresh clothing so that he/she had perfectly clean clothing devoid of evidence.  Nor can you because I already challenged you in the past and the best you could do was your bogus car washing example where the guy washed his car before he killed anyone.

People who decide to kill their family and then commit suicide don't wash up and change their clothes after killing everyone so they are fresh and clean when they kill themselves.  It doesn't happen which is why no examples can be pointed to.


3) Do you honestly think you know more than the pathologist Dr Vanezis?  If he thought that SC could not have carried out the murders/suicide without incurring any wounds he would say as much.  He doesn't.  In fact he goes further and when asked about her nails he says its falls under the expertise of ballistics but lol you know don't you?  I keep forgetting you are a lawyer, historian, ballistics expert, pathologist all rolled in one  @)(++(*

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=742

Vanezis never even considered that the killer's hand would be on the area of the stock that broke when it broke so never evaluated what damage would occur as a result.  He didn't even consider the issue.  So he can't help you at all in you trying to pretend that she would not have been cut by it.  The mechanics ar eno different than a wooden shovel handle breaking while you are using it. Such is going to scratch and cut someone as it breaks.

He did indeed punt on the issue of what damage loading a magazine and everything else to do with wielding the gun would result in.  The fact he punted doesn't mean such should be ignored by any stretch.  What things have I personally witness women with long nails brekaing their nails while doing?  Hitting a baeball with a bat, using a shovel, using other tools.  In order to batter someone with a rifle you have to grip it tightly and it will slip when you hit something hard.  It is akin to the feeling of hitting a bat but even more violent.  Since I was actually trained on how to strike someone with a rifle I do in fact have expertise in this area while Vanezis does not.

He probably could have explored the issue anyway if forced to but he chose not to and to leave it to the forensic persoonel to handle so that he would not have to testify about it at trial.

Are you able to provide any evidence from ballistics confirming that SC's nails would break?  This is just sexist rhetoric from men who have always totally dominated the case.  There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that a woman with manicured and varnished nails would be unable to carry out the murders/suicide and not keep her nails/varnish in tact. 

You make yourself look silly with your lengthy posts which contain no supporting links to anything.  Instead you are arrogant enough to think we should take everything you say at face value.  Even going as far as telling us you have a photographic memory.  Lol.  I would say selective rather than photographic  @)(++(*

It is not sexist at all.  I tis a fact that long nails breaking during altercations, during use of tools, during gaes and much more.  The things I mention are well founded whereas the things you mention are all pure nonsense that makes no sense at all in addiiton to being completely and totally lakcign in evidence.

Tell be again how 2 pairs of bloody underwear and 1 pair of leggings with blood int he crotch area sititng in a bucket are indicative they were worn during the murders.  How would victim blood get on the crotche at all let alone in the quantity claimed.  Explain how such is evidence that Sheila changed her clothing after the murders.

It is downright stupid to claim she wore 2 pairs of panties at the same time and the blood on them was fromt he murders.

It is equally stupid to try pretending that women with long nails beating someone severely would not be likely to breka a nail when nails are routinly broken during the course of struggles.  But you do evne worse you claim there was no struggle even.  You have to deny reality to try to pretend any of your fantasies are remotely possible. 

All that does is make you look sad and pathetic, not smart or competent.   
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2014, 09:11:00 PM »
Anyway with regard to the thread title I was wondering if the advances made in psychology, psychiatry, neuro-science biology/chemistry might be new grounds for an appeal? 

I think it is important to determine exactly what the CCRC and CoA are looking for in terms of new evidence to quash a conviction.

Here's the link for the CCRC

https://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/about/criminal-cases-review/policies-and-procedures/ccrc-q-and-a.pdf

Page 2 explains "What is new evidence or legal argument"

The CoA are bound by the Criminal Appeal Act 1968 Section 23(2)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/19/section/23#commentary-c1424586

2)

The Court of Appeal shall, in considering whether to receive any evidence, have regard in particular to—
.
(a)
whether the evidence appears to the Court to be capable of belief;
.

(b)
whether it appears to the Court that the evidence may afford any ground for allowing the appeal;

The final sentence ends any chance of an appeal on the basis of Sheila's mental health.  The new evidence must eat away at on of the pillars that convicted the defendant.

Prodcuign new theories about Sheila being as crazy as a bedbug still can't dent the evidence that covncted Jeremy.  Jeremy was convicted because of evidence that proved Sheila could not have killed herself, that Jeremy had been planning to kill his family for quite some time and that he was aware of the murders so he had to be the one who did it. 

Sheila's mental state doesn't rebutt any of the evidence that convicted him. 

“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2014, 09:53:44 PM »
The final sentence ends any chance of an appeal on the basis of Sheila's mental health.  The new evidence must eat away at on of the pillars that convicted the defendant.

Prodcuign new theories about Sheila being as crazy as a bedbug still can't dent the evidence that covncted Jeremy.  Jeremy was convicted because of evidence that proved Sheila could not have killed herself, that Jeremy had been planning to kill his family for quite some time and that he was aware of the murders so he had to be the one who did it. 

Sheila's mental state doesn't rebutt any of the evidence that convicted him.

You misunderstand the process.  It is not necessary to eat away at any of the pillars that convicted JB.  My post sets out the criteria based on the rules and regs pertaining to CCRC and CoA.  The CoA are looking for new evidence that had the jury have known about at trial it might have caused them to reach a different verdict.  My posts on this thread are sufficient to meet that criteria:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4513.msg163034#msg163034


Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2014, 10:40:17 PM »
You misunderstand the process.  It is not necessary to eat away at any of the pillars that convicted JB.  My post sets out the criteria based on the rules and regs pertaining to CCRC and CoA.  The CoA are looking for new evidence that had the jury have known about at trial it might have caused them to reach a different verdict.  My posts on this thread are sufficient to meet that criteria:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4513.msg163034#msg163034

I don't misunderstand a thing, law is my expertise.

Judges evaluate whether new evidence could have swayed the jury based on whether it eats away at any of the pillars of the case.

"(b) whether it appears to the Court that the evidence may afford any ground for allowing the appeal"

The evidence must prove a ground of the appeal. 

There is no such thing as an appeal to add even more evidence that someone had mental problems so the jury should have believed she committed the murders simply because she had mental problems inspite of the physical evidence that says otherwise.

An appeal has to be framed in a manner to eat away at the evidence that resulted in conviction.


 



“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2014, 11:59:05 PM »
I don't misunderstand a thing, law is my expertise.

Judges evaluate whether new evidence could have swayed the jury based on whether it eats away at any of the pillars of the case.

"(b) whether it appears to the Court that the evidence may afford any ground for allowing the appeal"

The evidence must prove a ground of the appeal. 

There is no such thing as an appeal to add even more evidence that someone had mental problems so the jury should have believed she committed the murders simply because she had mental problems inspite of the physical evidence that says otherwise.

An appeal has to be framed in a manner to eat away at the evidence that resulted in conviction.

but I think you do  ?>)()<

It is absolutely not necessary for JB to eat away at any pillars of the case.  I think you struggle to understand how the appeals process works in the English courts.

The CoA link is set out in legal terms so perhaps you will find the CCRC's explanation easier to understand as it is written for the layperson.  Page 2:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/about/criminal-cases-review/policies-and-procedures/ccrc-q-and-a.pdf

What is “new evidence or legal argument”?

If we are going to be able to refer your case for an appeal we will usually need to find some important new evidence or legal argument. Usually this means something that was not covered at your trial or your appeal. For example it may be new evidence not known about at the time, or something that has changed since your trial, like the appearance of a new witness or a new development in science. We can’t usually look again at things that were known about by the jury, the judge or the magistrates, even if you believe that they made the wrong decision in your case. We need to identify something new that wasn’t raised back then, and that the judges at your appeal didn’t know either, that makes your case look significantly different now. In some cases it might be a new legal argument, rather than new evidence, that means we can refer a case. New legal argument is usually some significant new point of law that has not been made before, such as a complaint that the judge’s summing-up was faulty, or that the prosecution applied the law incorrectly.


June's severe depression circa 1959 caused by her decision to adopt caused a 'disorganised attachment' in SC.  Disorganised attachments cause a propensity to suicide and violence. 

I'm not going round in circles with you.  I've set out my case here:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4513.msg163034#msg163034

If you want to live in the dark ages babbling on about bikes, phone calls, bloody panties etc, etc be my guest.  It will be up to the CCRC and ultimately the CoA to determine whether JB's conviction is safe or not based on the new scientific evidence surrounding:

- maternal depression
- science of neglect
- neurobiology
- neurochemistry
- propensity towards violence and suicide

 ?>)()<

Night, night don't let the bed bugs bite  8(0(*


Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2014, 01:00:43 AM »
but I think you do  ?>)()<

It is absolutely not necessary for JB to eat away at any pillars of the case.  I think you struggle to understand how the appeals process works in the English courts.

The CoA link is set out in legal terms so perhaps you will find the CCRC's explanation easier to understand as it is written for the layperson.  Page 2:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/about/criminal-cases-review/policies-and-procedures/ccrc-q-and-a.pdf

What is “new evidence or legal argument”?

If we are going to be able to refer your case for an appeal we will usually need to find some important new evidence or legal argument. Usually this means something that was not covered at your trial or your appeal. For example it may be new evidence not known about at the time, or something that has changed since your trial, like the appearance of a new witness or a new development in science. We can’t usually look again at things that were known about by the jury, the judge or the magistrates, even if you believe that they made the wrong decision in your case. We need to identify something new that wasn’t raised back then, and that the judges at your appeal didn’t know either, that makes your case look significantly different now. In some cases it might be a new legal argument, rather than new evidence, that means we can refer a case. New legal argument is usually some significant new point of law that has not been made before, such as a complaint that the judge’s summing-up was faulty, or that the prosecution applied the law incorrectly.


June's severe depression circa 1959 caused by her decision to adopt caused a 'disorganised attachment' in SC.  Disorganised attachments cause a propensity to suicide and violence. 

I'm not going round in circles with you.  I've set out my case here:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4513.msg163034#msg163034

If you want to live in the dark ages babbling on about bikes, phone calls, bloody panties etc, etc be my guest.  It will be up to the CCRC and ultimately the CoA to determine whether JB's conviction is safe or not based on the new scientific evidence surrounding:

- maternal depression
- science of neglect
- neurobiology
- neurochemistry
- propensity towards violence and suicide

 ?>)()<

Night, night don't let the bed bugs bite  8(0(*


You are still grossly misreading things.

Aside from the fact that they are not judges so the information contained therein is not complete and fails to present the complete picture:

"We need to identify something new that wasn’t raised back then, and that the judges at your appeal didn’t know either, that makes your case look significantly different now."

Sheila's mental problems were raised at the time it is not new and what already known about.  Such was already considered by the jury and made no difference.  So trying to say it is so new actually doesn't work.

But even worse how would such make the case look significantly different?

It doesn't.  Such has no bearing at all on the evidence that resulted in Jeremy's conviction. 

What I cited was one of the PRONGS the courts use.  The CCRC can't overrule the courts.  The prong clearly stated it must be an issue upon which one can appeal.

There is no such issue.

You can't say, had the jury known about your crackpot theories then they would have found that Sheila killed herself in spite of physical evidence that says she can't have killed herself.

You need a well found ground for an appeal.  An appeal requires proving an error of law occurred or a factual finding that was in error.  Thus one has to look at the factual findings and legal rulings made.  That is how you prepare an appeal. The 2002 Appeal decision goes over various supposed errors of fact rejecting that they were errors of fact or finding that even if they were there is no way the alleged errors could have had any bearing on the jury's decision. 


"We concluded in such circumstances that there was no valid reason why this evidence could not have been put before the jury by seeking to call an appropriate expert unless it was the case that Dr Lloyd's views were not ones shared by others and, even more importantly, that even if the evidence had been given at trial, it could not have altered the outcome of the trial."

Translations: 

The defense had the ability to introduce such evidence at trial but failed to do so and thus can't raise such on appeal because only evidence that the defense reaosnably could not have been aware of could be raised on appeal if not raised at trial.

The evidence is not strong enough to undermine the findings of the jury anyway so there is no reason to disturb the findings and grant a new trial even if we had found that the evidence was new.

How would hearing about your theories undermine the finding that Sheila can't have shot herself and that Jeremy did?  It wouldn't.  Your theories would not warrant squat.  There is no appeal ground that could be crafted form it to even try to bring it to the attention of the CCRC.

What was the ground at issue? 

Ground 1) challenged the hand swabs to try to suggest Sheila did in fact have lead or GSR on her hands thus to eat away at the finding she had fired a weapon or handled a gun.

What about ground 2? 

Ground 2) suggesting police caused the disarray in the kitchen so the lack of evidence on Sheila's feet doesn't prove she had not been in the kitchen at the time of the murders. 

"We are sure that none of the matters placed before us could possibly have resulted in the jury reaching a different conclusion on any material aspect of the case. This ground of appeal fails there being no evidence to support it."   

That is what you need a ground and evidence that is so compelling it "could possibly have resulted in the jury reaching a different conclusion on any material aspect of the case".

Your claims are not proof of anything and would not even come close to being able to cause the jury to reach a different conclusion.



 
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2014, 09:21:40 AM »

You are still grossly misreading things.

Aside from the fact that they are not judges so the information contained therein is not complete and fails to present the complete picture:

"We need to identify something new that wasn’t raised back then, and that the judges at your appeal didn’t know either, that makes your case look significantly different now."

Sheila's mental problems were raised at the time it is not new and what already known about.  Such was already considered by the jury and made no difference.  So trying to say it is so new actually doesn't work.

But even worse how would such make the case look significantly different?

It doesn't.  Such has no bearing at all on the evidence that resulted in Jeremy's conviction. 

What I cited was one of the PRONGS the courts use.  The CCRC can't overrule the courts.  The prong clearly stated it must be an issue upon which one can appeal.

There is no such issue.

You can't say, had the jury known about your crackpot theories then they would have found that Sheila killed herself in spite of physical evidence that says she can't have killed herself.

You need a well found ground for an appeal.  An appeal requires proving an error of law occurred or a factual finding that was in error.  Thus one has to look at the factual findings and legal rulings made.  That is how you prepare an appeal. The 2002 Appeal decision goes over various supposed errors of fact rejecting that they were errors of fact or finding that even if they were there is no way the alleged errors could have had any bearing on the jury's decision. 


"We concluded in such circumstances that there was no valid reason why this evidence could not have been put before the jury by seeking to call an appropriate expert unless it was the case that Dr Lloyd's views were not ones shared by others and, even more importantly, that even if the evidence had been given at trial, it could not have altered the outcome of the trial."

Translations: 

The defense had the ability to introduce such evidence at trial but failed to do so and thus can't raise such on appeal because only evidence that the defense reaosnably could not have been aware of could be raised on appeal if not raised at trial.

The evidence is not strong enough to undermine the findings of the jury anyway so there is no reason to disturb the findings and grant a new trial even if we had found that the evidence was new.

How would hearing about your theories undermine the finding that Sheila can't have shot herself and that Jeremy did?  It wouldn't.  Your theories would not warrant squat.  There is no appeal ground that could be crafted form it to even try to bring it to the attention of the CCRC.

What was the ground at issue? 

Ground 1) challenged the hand swabs to try to suggest Sheila did in fact have lead or GSR on her hands thus to eat away at the finding she had fired a weapon or handled a gun.

What about ground 2? 

Ground 2) suggesting police caused the disarray in the kitchen so the lack of evidence on Sheila's feet doesn't prove she had not been in the kitchen at the time of the murders. 

"We are sure that none of the matters placed before us could possibly have resulted in the jury reaching a different conclusion on any material aspect of the case. This ground of appeal fails there being no evidence to support it."   

That is what you need a ground and evidence that is so compelling it "could possibly have resulted in the jury reaching a different conclusion on any material aspect of the case".

Your claims are not proof of anything and would not even come close to being able to cause the jury to reach a different conclusion.

As I said Scipio you misunderstand how the CCRC/CoA appeals process works in the English courts.

In 2002 the CCRC referred JB's case to the CoA in respect of testing of the silencer for DNA.  See point 452/Ground 15:

"Ground 15 is the sole ground upon which this case was referred to the Court by the CCRC. It is based upon the testing of the sound moderator for DNA, a technique that was not available at trial."

The fact the CCRC referred JB's case to the CoA based on ground 15 affords him the benefit of raising other grounds without them being deemed worthy of consideration by the CCRC or the leave of the court having first been obtained.  JB took advantage of this by raising grounds 1 - 16 (excl 15 above).  See point 522:

"Once a matter has been referred to this court it is clearly right that the court should fully consider those matters that have caused the case to be referred by the CCRC. However, it does seem remarkable to us that the appellant, following a referral to the court, is then entitled to raise any matter he wishes as a ground of appeal without either it having been deemed worthy of consideration by the CCRC or the leave of the court having first been obtained. We have no doubt that some of the matters that occupied the time of the court raised on behalf of the appellant were of such little merit that the court would, if it had power, have refused leave to argue them".


It is not necessary to counter the prosecution's case.  I have already set out the criteria used by the CCRC and CoA.  As it happens the new evidence relating to neurobiology and neurochemistry does counter the prosecution's case at point 151 v) a):

Although seriously mentally ill, there had been no indication of any deterioration in her mental health in the days before the killings. Neither had she expressed any recent suicidal thoughts and the expert evidence was that she would not have harmed her children or her father;

Furthermore the expert evidence at trial was as follows and this can now be proved wrong:

84. The defence at trial called Dr Ferguson, a Consultant Psychiatrist at St Andrew's Hospital in Northampton, who had the care of Sheila Caffell between August 1983 and her death. Mrs Caffell had been referred for treatment by her general practitioner and seen by Dr Ferguson for the first time on 2 August 1983. Then she was in a very agitated and psychotic state and he admitted her for in-patient treatment on 4 August. Dr Ferguson came initially to the diagnosis of a schizo-affective disorder characterised by disturbance of thinking and perception. She was depressed in a paranoid way, struggling with the concept of good and evil and caught up with the idea that the Devil had taken her over and given her the power to project the Devil's evil to others including her twin sons. In particular she spoke of a fear she could create in her children an ability to have sex and do violence with her. In the discharge letter Dr Ferguson made reference to her morbid thoughts, which included the idea she was capable of murdering her children or communicating an ability to them to kill. He said she had spoken of suicidal thoughts although he did not regard her as a suicide risk. Miss Caffell responded to the treatment at hospital and was discharged on 10 September 1983.

85. Dr Ferguson continued to see Sheila Caffell as an outpatient and during that period made a firm diagnosis that his patient was suffering from schizophrenia. During that period she was prescribed the anti-psychotic drug, Stelazine. Whilst she was then pre-occupied with her ability to have more children, there were less obvious signs of mental illness and no evidence of acute disturbance.

86. On 3 March 1985 Sheila Caffell was re-admitted to hospital in Northampton. Then she was agitated, very disturbed and in an anxious state. Her thinking was again very involved with the concepts of good and evil, but on this occasion more directly related to excessive religious ideas. She made no reference to any thoughts concerning her children or parents. As before she responded to treatment and was discharged on 29 March 1985.

87. Thereafter Sheila Caffell received monthly injections of Haloperidol, a drug used to treat agitated states which had anti-psychotic and tranquillising properties. It also has sedative side effects at the levels prescribed.

88. When told on 8 August 1985 that Sheila Caffell had killed her parents and children and then herself, Dr Ferguson said this did not fit "his concept" of his patient. He did not feel she was someone who would actually be violent to her children or towards her father, although she was a highly disturbed woman and had expressed disturbed feelings towards her mother.

89. In cross-examination Dr Ferguson agreed that Mrs Caffell's condition was well known to her family. There had never been manifestations of violence either when her illness was being managed or when in a highly disturbed state in hospital. In the context of what was alleged to have occurred Dr Ferguson found it possible to conceive of Sheila Caffell wanting to harm her mother or herself but "difficult to conceptualise her harming her children or her father". He had always felt Sheila loved and cared for her children and saw her father as a very secure, caring and strong support in her life.


The above fails to factor in:

- June's mental illness circa 1959
- Science of neglect
- Disorganised attachment
- Neurobiology and neurochemistry of disorganised attachment
- Propensity towards suicide and violence

In an nutshell new evidence is required that meets the CCRC criteria and section 23(2) The Criminal Appeal Act 1968.  The above meets the criteria.  It is concerned with new evidence that the jury were denied the benefit of at trial.  It is not for me, you, the CCRC, the COA or anyone to anticipate what weight, if any, the jury may have given to the above had it have been available at trial.  The appeal judges simply ask ok had the jury have known about this would it have altered their verdict?  Don't forget the whole case was based on whether SC committed suicide or whether JB murdered her.  Dr Ferguson told the court he did not regard SC as a suicide risk.  There's now clear scientific evidence that SC was a suicide risk.

The new submissions to the CCRC are based on new medical evidence and psychiatric reports:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/killer-jeremy-bambers-bid-freedom-6981683

Scipio if you choose to respond I will not be reciprocating unless you raise something substantially new ie I am not going round and round in circles with you arguing the toss on the above.  Its now for the CCRC and CoA to decide.




Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2014, 06:07:27 PM »
As I said Scipio you misunderstand how the CCRC/CoA appeals process works in the English courts.

Saying something doesn't make you right.  Your track record is constantly insisting you are right but in fact always being wrong like when I referred to COLP asking Cook about records from the lab indicating on 8/14/85 that they notified police that human blood had been found on the moderator but you said I was wrong and that it was blood on the rifle and then posted a paragraph from the 2002 Appeal Decision stating blood was found on the rifle to try to pretend that is what COLP was talking about.



As plain as day it states blood found in the moderator not rifle.

Your understanding of Appellate law is as poor as your understanding of the above COLP questioning.

In 2002 the CCRC referred JB's case to the CoA in respect of testing of the silencer for DNA.  See point 452/Ground 15:

"Ground 15 is the sole ground upon which this case was referred to the Court by the CCRC. It is based upon the testing of the sound moderator for DNA, a technique that was not available at trial."

The fact the CCRC referred JB's case to the CoA based on ground 15 affords him the benefit of raising other grounds without them being deemed worthy of consideration by the CCRC or the leave of the court having first been obtained.  JB took advantage of this by raising grounds 1 - 16 (excl 15 above).  See point 522:

"Once a matter has been referred to this court it is clearly right that the court should fully consider those matters that have caused the case to be referred by the CCRC. However, it does seem remarkable to us that the appellant, following a referral to the court, is then entitled to raise any matter he wishes as a ground of appeal without either it having been deemed worthy of consideration by the CCRC or the leave of the court having first been obtained. We have no doubt that some of the matters that occupied the time of the court raised on behalf of the appellant were of such little merit that the court would, if it had power, have refused leave to argue them".


All that says in laymen terms is that at the time of the decision that absurd, meritless claims can reach the court if they are in the company of a potentially plausible appeal ground and recommends Court rules be changed sto exclude such waste of time.   Did you research whether that rule was changed as the court suggested?

In any event if that is still the case today, his is from the statute authorizing the CCRC:

"Conditions for making of references..

(1)A reference of a conviction, verdict, finding or sentence shall not be made under any of sections 9 to 12 unless— .
(a)the Commission consider that there is a real possibility that the conviction, verdict, finding or sentence would not be upheld were the reference to be made,"

So if there were some ground that actually convinced the CCRC that the Court of Appeals might reverse the verdict and your worthless quackery accompanied it then the court would have to actually take the time to reject your quackery the way they rejected all the other nonsense that accompanied the DNA claims in 2002.

Someone who cares about substance wants to make arguments that will convince the Court of Appeals to reverse the conviction.  That requires providing credible evidence that eats at the prosecution's case.

How would your quackery result in reversing the conviction?  It can't because it doesn't refute the prosecution's case.  So even if you managed to find an appeal ground that actually swayed the CCRC and piggbacked your quackery to such claim to get it before the Court of Appeals they would reject your quackery as meaningless at minimum by saying it would not have any ability to sway a rational juror to acquit but also could have shredded your quackery on the basis of a lack of scientifically reliability.

In order for an appeal to be successful the evidence must be sufficient to be able to sway a rational jury to acquit and in order to do that it must eat away at one of the pillars of the case. 

It is not necessary to counter the prosecution's case.  I have already set out the criteria used by the CCRC and CoA.

You didn't discuss the criteria used by the Court of Appeals.  You discussed a trick used to get worthless nonsense before the Court of Appeals which was then thoroughly rejected as meritless nonsense tha tnever should have reached it.

The Court of Appeals will not reverse a conviction based on additional evidence unless the evidence is truly new, could not have been raised below and eats away at a pillar of the prosecution's case so that the Court determines a reasonably juror could have acquitted on such basis.   

Your quackery is bad enough you know zilch about science but your misrperesentation of the law concerning appeals is even worse.

As it happens the new evidence relating to neurobiology and neurochemistry does counter the prosecution's case at point 151 v) a):

Although seriously mentally ill, there had been no indication of any deterioration in her mental health in the days before the killings. Neither had she expressed any recent suicidal thoughts and the expert evidence was that she would not have harmed her children or her father;

Your supposed new evidence doesn't counter the prosecution's case.  You are reading from a section of the Court of Appeals decision concerning the failed defense efforts not the prosecution's case.  The prosecution's case was that Jeremy told Julie he was planning to kill his family, that they were killed without any physical evidence to establish Sheila loaded a gun let alone shot anyone and that physical evidence proves it was impossible for her to shoot herself.  Jeremy then told Julie he was responsible for their deaths.  He knew about the murders and tried to frame Sheila thus he indeed is the one who did it. 

Your quackery doesn't affect their case at all let alone rebut any of it. 

The Defense tried to claiming the letter from Colin about taking custody was new and that such warranted new testimony from Ferguson.  The Court looked down upon evidence from people who didn't actually treat Sheila and provided simply basic mumbo jumbo like you are trying to do.  It actually considered Ferguson's claims in higher esteem because he actually treated her.  They still rejected his new assessment though holding:

"No new issue is raised which was not already fully before the jury, and in the circumstances it did not seem to us necessary or expedient in the interests of justice that further evidence on this topic should now be admitted before this court and we declined to hear such evidence. There is thus nothing of any substance in this ground and we reject it."

You have no evidence at all to establish her health was deteriorating the days prior to the murders and they don't give a rats ass about your quackery where you try to add more evidence of mental problems.  SUch can't possibly convince a rational juror that she did it when there is unrebutted evidence that she cna't have shot herself.

Furthermore the expert evidence at trial was as follows and this can now be proved wrong:

84. The defence at trial called Dr Ferguson, a Consultant Psychiatrist at St Andrew's Hospital in Northampton, who had the care of Sheila Caffell between August 1983 and her death. Mrs Caffell had been referred for treatment by her general practitioner and seen by Dr Ferguson for the first time on 2 August 1983. Then she was in a very agitated and psychotic state and he admitted her for in-patient treatment on 4 August. Dr Ferguson came initially to the diagnosis of a schizo-affective disorder characterised by disturbance of thinking and perception. She was depressed in a paranoid way, struggling with the concept of good and evil and caught up with the idea that the Devil had taken her over and given her the power to project the Devil's evil to others including her twin sons. In particular she spoke of a fear she could create in her children an ability to have sex and do violence with her. In the discharge letter Dr Ferguson made reference to her morbid thoughts, which included the idea she was capable of murdering her children or communicating an ability to them to kill. He said she had spoken of suicidal thoughts although he did not regard her as a suicide risk. Miss Caffell responded to the treatment at hospital and was discharged on 10 September 1983.

85. Dr Ferguson continued to see Sheila Caffell as an outpatient and during that period made a firm diagnosis that his patient was suffering from schizophrenia. During that period she was prescribed the anti-psychotic drug, Stelazine. Whilst she was then pre-occupied with her ability to have more children, there were less obvious signs of mental illness and no evidence of acute disturbance.

86. On 3 March 1985 Sheila Caffell was re-admitted to hospital in Northampton. Then she was agitated, very disturbed and in an anxious state. Her thinking was again very involved with the concepts of good and evil, but on this occasion more directly related to excessive religious ideas. She made no reference to any thoughts concerning her children or parents. As before she responded to treatment and was discharged on 29 March 1985.

87. Thereafter Sheila Caffell received monthly injections of Haloperidol, a drug used to treat agitated states which had anti-psychotic and tranquillising properties. It also has sedative side effects at the levels prescribed.

88. When told on 8 August 1985 that Sheila Caffell had killed her parents and children and then herself, Dr Ferguson said this did not fit "his concept" of his patient. He did not feel she was someone who would actually be violent to her children or towards her father, although she was a highly disturbed woman and had expressed disturbed feelings towards her mother.

89. In cross-examination Dr Ferguson agreed that Mrs Caffell's condition was well known to her family. There had never been manifestations of violence either when her illness was being managed or when in a highly disturbed state in hospital. In the context of what was alleged to have occurred Dr Ferguson found it possible to conceive of Sheila Caffell wanting to harm her mother or herself but "difficult to conceptualise her harming her children or her father". He had always felt Sheila loved and cared for her children and saw her father as a very secure, caring and strong support in her life.


The above fails to factor in:

- June's mental illness circa 1959
- Science of neglect
- Disorganised attachment
- Neurobiology and neurochemistry of disorganised attachment
- Propensity towards suicide and violence

In an nutshell new evidence is required that meets the CCRC criteria and section 23(2) The Criminal Appeal Act 1968.  The above meets the criteria.  It is concerned with new evidence that the jury were denied the benefit of at trial.  It is not for me, you, the CCRC, the COA or anyone to anticipate what weight, if any, the jury may have given to the above had it have been available at trial.  The appeal judges simply ask ok had the jury have known about this would it have altered their verdict?  Don't forget the whole case was based on whether SC committed suicide or whether JB murdered her.  Dr Ferguson told the court he did not regard SC as a suicide risk.  There's now clear scientific evidence that SC was a suicide risk.

The new submissions to the CCRC are based on new medical evidence and psychiatric reports:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/killer-jeremy-bambers-bid-freedom-6981683

Scipio if you choose to respond I will not be reciprocating unless you raise something substantially new ie I am not going round and round in circles with you arguing the toss on the above.  Its now for the CCRC and CoA to decide.

You are quite delusional.  Your theories do not in any way, shape or form establish that Ferguson was wrong and that in fact Sheila was in danger of committing suicide. 

Your theories are no different than what the defense already tried at trial:

"The defence called another consultant psychiatrist, Dr Bradley, who had never treated nor indeed even met Sheila Caffell, and who gave the court the benefit of his opinion from the medical notes. His evidence amounted to no more than that he had experience of cases where mentally disturbed persons who believed that it would be for the good of the victims had killed children and others. "

At best your alleged evidence would be a psychiatrist who never met Sheila testifying about how he thinks June's mental problems impacted Sheila and made her suicidal because that happens sometimes. 

It doesn't disprove the claims of Ferguson in any way, shape or form it is just an assessment from someone that never met her and is no more credible than the claims already made by the defense.  It is not new at all it is just more of the same things already discussed by the defense.  In the meantime this quackery is not coming from experts but rather from you.

What impact would this have on the jury?  None because aside from being unreliable because anyone testifying about such never met Sheila and thus a jury will disregard the claims, even if believed these claims do not eat away at the prosecution's case.  All it is is more information to add to a failed defense tactic.  Trying to add more evidence about her state of mind is not new evidence and the Court of Appeals didn't even bother to dismiss it as unable to sway a jury they simply declared:

"No new issue is raised which was not already fully before the jury, and in the circumstances it did not seem to us necessary or expedient in the interests of justice that further evidence on this topic should now be admitted before this court and we declined to hear such evidence."

That is all the Court of Appeals would say if your quackery were piggybacked so they were forced to deal with it.


“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline John

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2014, 03:16:07 PM »
I believe the CCRC was wrong to refer the case back to the Court of Appeal since the grounds were so weak.  I wouldn't be surprised if pressure was brought on the CCRC to refer the case one last time so that the High Court would bury it once and for all.

As far as I am concerned the evidence is crystal clear and if he was to be retried he would be convicted all over again.  This time it wouldn't just be blood-type evidence but DNA evidence which would seal his fate.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 04:30:55 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2014, 10:58:53 AM »
Saying something doesn't make you right.  Your track record is constantly insisting you are right but in fact always being wrong like when I referred to COLP asking Cook about records from the lab indicating on 8/14/85 that they notified police that human blood had been found on the moderator but you said I was wrong and that it was blood on the rifle and then posted a paragraph from the 2002 Appeal Decision stating blood was found on the rifle to try to pretend that is what COLP was talking about.



As plain as day it states blood found in the moderator not rifle.

Your understanding of Appellate law is as poor as your understanding of the above COLP questioning.
 

All that says in laymen terms is that at the time of the decision that absurd, meritless claims can reach the court if they are in the company of a potentially plausible appeal ground and recommends Court rules be changed sto exclude such waste of time.   Did you research whether that rule was changed as the court suggested?

In any event if that is still the case today, his is from the statute authorizing the CCRC:

"Conditions for making of references..

(1)A reference of a conviction, verdict, finding or sentence shall not be made under any of sections 9 to 12 unless— .
(a)the Commission consider that there is a real possibility that the conviction, verdict, finding or sentence would not be upheld were the reference to be made,"

So if there were some ground that actually convinced the CCRC that the Court of Appeals might reverse the verdict and your worthless quackery accompanied it then the court would have to actually take the time to reject your quackery the way they rejected all the other nonsense that accompanied the DNA claims in 2002.

Someone who cares about substance wants to make arguments that will convince the Court of Appeals to reverse the conviction.  That requires providing credible evidence that eats at the prosecution's case.

How would your quackery result in reversing the conviction?  It can't because it doesn't refute the prosecution's case.  So even if you managed to find an appeal ground that actually swayed the CCRC and piggbacked your quackery to such claim to get it before the Court of Appeals they would reject your quackery as meaningless at minimum by saying it would not have any ability to sway a rational juror to acquit but also could have shredded your quackery on the basis of a lack of scientifically reliability.

In order for an appeal to be successful the evidence must be sufficient to be able to sway a rational jury to acquit and in order to do that it must eat away at one of the pillars of the case. 

You didn't discuss the criteria used by the Court of Appeals.  You discussed a trick used to get worthless nonsense before the Court of Appeals which was then thoroughly rejected as meritless nonsense tha tnever should have reached it.

The Court of Appeals will not reverse a conviction based on additional evidence unless the evidence is truly new, could not have been raised below and eats away at a pillar of the prosecution's case so that the Court determines a reasonably juror could have acquitted on such basis.   

Your quackery is bad enough you know zilch about science but your misrperesentation of the law concerning appeals is even worse.

Your supposed new evidence doesn't counter the prosecution's case.  You are reading from a section of the Court of Appeals decision concerning the failed defense efforts not the prosecution's case.  The prosecution's case was that Jeremy told Julie he was planning to kill his family, that they were killed without any physical evidence to establish Sheila loaded a gun let alone shot anyone and that physical evidence proves it was impossible for her to shoot herself.  Jeremy then told Julie he was responsible for their deaths.  He knew about the murders and tried to frame Sheila thus he indeed is the one who did it. 

Your quackery doesn't affect their case at all let alone rebut any of it. 

The Defense tried to claiming the letter from Colin about taking custody was new and that such warranted new testimony from Ferguson.  The Court looked down upon evidence from people who didn't actually treat Sheila and provided simply basic mumbo jumbo like you are trying to do.  It actually considered Ferguson's claims in higher esteem because he actually treated her.  They still rejected his new assessment though holding:

"No new issue is raised which was not already fully before the jury, and in the circumstances it did not seem to us necessary or expedient in the interests of justice that further evidence on this topic should now be admitted before this court and we declined to hear such evidence. There is thus nothing of any substance in this ground and we reject it."

You have no evidence at all to establish her health was deteriorating the days prior to the murders and they don't give a rats ass about your quackery where you try to add more evidence of mental problems.  SUch can't possibly convince a rational juror that she did it when there is unrebutted evidence that she cna't have shot herself.

You are quite delusional.  Your theories do not in any way, shape or form establish that Ferguson was wrong and that in fact Sheila was in danger of committing suicide. 

Your theories are no different than what the defense already tried at trial:

"The defence called another consultant psychiatrist, Dr Bradley, who had never treated nor indeed even met Sheila Caffell, and who gave the court the benefit of his opinion from the medical notes. His evidence amounted to no more than that he had experience of cases where mentally disturbed persons who believed that it would be for the good of the victims had killed children and others. "

At best your alleged evidence would be a psychiatrist who never met Sheila testifying about how he thinks June's mental problems impacted Sheila and made her suicidal because that happens sometimes. 

It doesn't disprove the claims of Ferguson in any way, shape or form it is just an assessment from someone that never met her and is no more credible than the claims already made by the defense.  It is not new at all it is just more of the same things already discussed by the defense.  In the meantime this quackery is not coming from experts but rather from you.

What impact would this have on the jury?  None because aside from being unreliable because anyone testifying about such never met Sheila and thus a jury will disregard the claims, even if believed these claims do not eat away at the prosecution's case.  All it is is more information to add to a failed defense tactic.  Trying to add more evidence about her state of mind is not new evidence and the Court of Appeals didn't even bother to dismiss it as unable to sway a jury they simply declared:

"No new issue is raised which was not already fully before the jury, and in the circumstances it did not seem to us necessary or expedient in the interests of justice that further evidence on this topic should now be admitted before this court and we declined to hear such evidence."

That is all the Court of Appeals would say if your quackery were piggybacked so they were forced to deal with it.

Simples!  The evidence is overwhelming:

Failure to bond with a primary care giver, in this case due to numerous abrupt changes and June's severe mental illness, is likely to give rise to a 'disorganised attachment'.  This in turn causes neurobiological and neurochemical changes in the brain/body leading to a lack of empathy, propensity towards aggression, violence and suicide.  This was not discussed at trial as it is based on new scientific evidence made over the last 3 decades. 

JB's defence will assert the above and that it accounts for the extreme level of violence inflicted on the victims.  It will be down to the prosecution to counter. 

The 3 CoA judges will be mindful of how the jury would have interpreted the above had it have been available at trial.

I would recommend anyone interested simply Google 'disorganised attachment' along with other key words like 'neuroscience', 'neurobiology' and 'neurochemistry'
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2014, 04:40:27 PM »
The murders were carried out with expert precision, not one shot failed to find its target.  Bamber underestimated the damage each bullet would do however and must have been in a right panic when not one or two or even three or four rounds were able to put Nevill down.  Even June was able to get out of bed after being shot before Bamber inflicted the fatal shot to her forehead.  Risking so many shots was not in his plan, it was an unnecessary risk.  Only an amateur like Bamber would have been caught out in such a manner, he was lucky the shots weren't heard by the neighbours but then that was the whole reason for using the silencer which he later hid in the gun cupboard.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 04:45:16 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Failed CCRC Submission 2011 and Failed Appeal 2002
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2014, 06:11:14 PM »
The murders were carried out with expert precision, not one shot failed to find its target.  Bamber underestimated the damage each bullet would do however and must have been in a right panic when not one or two or even three or four rounds were able to put Nevill down.  Even June was able to get out of bed after being shot before Bamber inflicted the fatal shot to her forehead.  Risking so many shot9s was not in his plan, it was an unnecessary risk.  Only an amateur like Bamber would have been caught out in such a manner, he was lucky the shots weren't heard by the neighbours but then that was the whole reason for using the silencer which he later hid in the gun cupboard.

The victims were shot at close range, and in the case of the twins and June (initially) whilst in bed and NB (latterly) while seated so it is difficult to see how the perpetrator could miss?  The only shot that seems to have a sort of missed was the shot fired at NB whilst he was going downstairs.

JB is described in the CoA document as a "good shot".  He was also described as a "marksman" when in the cadets.  Surely he would be aware of the limitations of the weaponry/ammo?  Is it possible to have expert precision with an owned rifle and yet be amateurish when it comes to appreciating its (rifle and ammo) capabilities? 

If the shots were likely to be heard by neighbours then I struggle to understand how SC was not alerted to the commotion?

I just don't know  8-)(--)  All I can be certain of is that psychologically SC fits the profile and JB does not. 



 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?