Author Topic: Given the Appellate Courts decision, is the libel trial a foregone conclusion?  (Read 70281 times)

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Offline John

In Britain words do not have to be prove true or false to be deemed Libel or Defamation.

I know that we aren't talking about Britain, but it seems that something similar applies in Portugal.

That's not the case Eleanor.  In the UK libel is defined as a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation.  Under English Law it is the defendant who requires to prove that the alleged libel is true or made as fair comment.

www.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Suppose, hypothetically, that Amaral had accused the McCanns of boiling new-born babies alive in some sort of Satanic ritual.

If the allegation is true, then the McCanns are monsters and should be locked up.  Amaral would not have libelled them by making the claim.

But if the allegation is untrue then Amaral has libelled them and there should be a legal judgment against Amaral for libel.

In all countries (that have libel laws) questions of truth or untruth matter (to arrive at a judgment that libel, either has been committed, or has not).

To claim that truth or untruth doesn't matter is plain barking.

I concur with that ferryman, thus the bottom line is if the McCanns are totally innocent then they have suffered dreadfully as a consequence of Gonçalo's hypothesis but if they aren't then they brought it all upon themselves.  I cannot see how any Court regardless of the jurisdiction could decide this before it is known what really happened to Maddie.

You cant pay compensation to a guilty party or can you?


« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 04:18:04 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Eleanor

That's not the case Eleanor.  In the UK libel is defined as a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation.  Under English Law it is the defendant who requires to prove that the alleged libel is true or made as fair comment.

www.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law

It can be if done with malicious intent, John.

Offline John

It can be if done with malicious intent, John.

I am not so sure that a true statement made with malicious intent in the UK constitutes a libel, can you provide any cites for this?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carew

Gawd, Alfred

This wee Scot is keen on you!  Watch out.

Well someone has to keep an eye on her tendency to whip up hysteria, even though being on bullshit alert is not a happy task.

Offline Eleanor

I am not so sure that a true statement made with malicious intent in the UK constitutes a libel, can you provide any cites for this?

No, Just Google.  But I have waded through so much that I can't remember where it was.

Incidentally, at the time of the rumours that Robert Murat was suing Jane Tanner, it was reported to have been said by Murat's lawyer that Jane Tanner was being sued in Portugal because her supposed statement regarding recognising Robert Murat as the man carrying the child, was given with Malicious Intent.

Very convoluted, I do agree, and I wouldn't know where to look for any Internet information on that either.
But it might be suggested that Malicious Intent is a crime in Portugal.

However, I don't suppose for a minute that Amaral could be accused of that.

Offline Jean-Pierre

I concur with that ferryman, thus the bottom line is if the McCanns are totally innocent then they have suffered dreadfully as a consequence of Gonçalo's hypothesis but if they aren't then they brought it all upon themselves.  I cannot see how any Court regardless of the jurisdiction could decide this before it is known what really happened to Maddie.

You cant pay compensation to a guilty party or can you?

In the absence of due process and conviction, the McCanns are in law innocent.   

Amaral has accused them of committing criminal offences, and in doing so has caused them reputational damage and distress.

This is one of the reasons why it is a really bad idea for ex police officers to write books about cases they have failed to solve.  Amaral exposed himself to the risk that the McCanns would (quite correctly in my view) sue him for defamation and expect substantial damages. 

Offline Jean-Pierre

precisely John

The injunction preventing publication of the book was overturned.  The ringfencing of funds still stands. 

The libel trial is currently reaching its conclusion. 

The level of compensation to the damaged party, and award of costs, is yet to come.   

Offline Carana

What is the difference between libel/slander and malicious falsehood?
In malicious falsehood the claimant must prove:

    the words are false;
    the words were published maliciously; and
    special damage has flowed from their publication unless the publication falls within certain criteria.


The words need not be defamatory, but they must be false.
 
In addition, the claimant carries the burden of proving all three elements which can make the claim more difficult than a libel claim.
http://www.carter-ruck.com/Media%20Law/Questions_And_Answers.asp

Further up on that page:

 

When are words defamatory?

There is no set definition of 'defamatory'. A statement may be considered to be defamatory if it tends to do any one of the following:

    lower the claimant in the estimation of right-thinking members of society generally;
    disparage a claimant in his business, trade, office or profession;
    expose the claimant to hatred, ridicule or contempt; or
    cause the claimant to be shunned or avoided.

Whether or not a statement has that effect is measured against the standard of the reasonable man generally and not a limited class of people who may have different standards from the majority of members of society.

Common examples of what may be considered defamatory are allegations that suggest a person is:

    Immoral
    Dishonest
    Corrupt
    Insolvent or in serious financial difficulties
    Incompetent
    Guilty of a criminal offence
    The producer of shoddy goods

Standards of morality constantly change and so what would have been immoral twenty years ago may not necessarily be so today.
 
Determining the meaning of words gives rise to a great degree of uncertainty in a libel action. It is not only the superficial meaning that may be defamatory but also any 'hidden' meaning which can be inferred. There are three levels of meaning to be aware of:

    inference, in other words a meaning that can be read between the lines without any specialist knowledge; and
    innuendo, a meaning which can be attributed to the words by readers who have a specialist knowledge.

The onus is on the claimant to show the facts giving rise to the innuendo and that these facts are known to the readers. For example, to say that a person eats meat is not defamatory on its face; if, however, some readers know that the person professes to be a committed vegetarian, the statement may be considered defamatory, suggesting he is hypocritical or dishonest.
 
The words must be put in their full context, including headings and captions to any photographs. For the purpose of deciding whether words are defamatory, the intention of the author is irrelevant. All that matters is the impression which the words give to readers.
 
It is important to bear in mind that a person can sue for the repetition of a defamatory statement made by somebody else. However if it is made absolutely clear, when the words are read as a whole, that there is no truth in a rumour then this may be sufficient to remove the defamatory 'sting'. Be aware however that it is often considered that there is 'no smoke without fire' and it is possible that the publication even of rumour can be defamatory. Simply to make an allegation and add 'allegedly' or 'it has been alleged' will not in itself protect someone from a libel complaint, as readers will usually still understand there to be some truth in the allegation being made.


Offline Carana

The injunction preventing publication of the book was overturned.  The ringfencing of funds still stands. 

The libel trial is currently reaching its conclusion. 

The level of compensation to the damaged party, and award of costs, is yet to come.

That was nice and succinct, Jean-Pierre.

Offline Brietta


Just try and extract your head and think a little.

If it happened to Brietta, then it is first hand and she can state how it affects her and her family. Brietta is not KM we assume, so only has her belief in what KM says based on whatever factors she chooses, so she cannot state as fact how anything affects the McCanns.

You have misunderstood my original post or you are misrepresenting what I have said. 

I would never presume to put myself into the shoes of someone who was the victim of disaster nor would I analyse that person’s actions.  The simple truth being that no-one knows exactly how they would react in a given situation. 

That does not prevent me observing. 

That does not prevent the learned judge from deliberating; and it is on her deliberation of the evidence and what is applicable in law that will determine how she rules in this case.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Mr Gray

I concur with that ferryman, thus the bottom line is if the McCanns are totally innocent then they have suffered dreadfully as a consequence of Gonçalo's hypothesis but if they aren't then they brought it all upon themselves.  I cannot see how any Court regardless of the jurisdiction could decide this before it is known what really happened to Maddie.

You cant pay compensation to a guilty party or can you?

First...compensation has been paid to guilty parties in the UK..

Secondly if what you are saying is true the case would have been thrown out years ago and amaral would have had all his money returned

Offline Wonderfulspam


McCanns face five-year wait in libel trial

KATE and Gerry McCann's battle to sue a disgraced ex-police chief for £1million in libel damages could drag on for another five years, a pal revealed yesterday.

By Tracey Kandohla / Published 13th July 2014

News of the setback came after the parents of missing Madeleine gave evidence against Goncalo Amaral in a Lisbon court.

Kate told the trial how smears by their tormentor left her family "devastated, fearful and desperate".

But Mr Amaral, who led the bungled hunt for Maddie, now claims he is broke.

A judge is set to call him back to court in September to order him and the publishers of his 2008 book The Truth Of The Lie to ­reveal how much was made from the best-seller and a 2009 TV documentary.

A source close to Kate and Gerry said: "They are ­exasperated by this. Civil proceedings against Mr Amaral have already been going on for five years and at this rate are likely to go on for another five years.

"He is pleading poverty and there will be further hearings held for him to disclose his bank statements."

Even if Kate, 46, and Gerry, 45, of Rothley, Leics, win the case, they will probably not see any money until 2018 or 2019.

Their lawyer Isabel ­Duarte said: "It has been proved in the civil file that Mr Amaral earned around 380,000 euros in one year from the book."

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/388686/McCanns-face-five-year-wait-in-libel-trial
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline Mr Gray

McCanns face five-year wait in libel trial

KATE and Gerry McCann's battle to sue a disgraced ex-police chief for £1million in libel damages could drag on for another five years, a pal revealed yesterday.

By Tracey Kandohla / Published 13th July 2014

News of the setback came after the parents of missing Madeleine gave evidence against Goncalo Amaral in a Lisbon court.

Kate told the trial how smears by their tormentor left her family "devastated, fearful and desperate".

But Mr Amaral, who led the bungled hunt for Maddie, now claims he is broke.

A judge is set to call him back to court in September to order him and the publishers of his 2008 book The Truth Of The Lie to ­reveal how much was made from the best-seller and a 2009 TV documentary.

A source close to Kate and Gerry said: "They are ­exasperated by this. Civil proceedings against Mr Amaral have already been going on for five years and at this rate are likely to go on for another five years.

"He is pleading poverty and there will be further hearings held for him to disclose his bank statements."

Even if Kate, 46, and Gerry, 45, of Rothley, Leics, win the case, they will probably not see any money until 2018 or 2019.

Their lawyer Isabel ­Duarte said: "It has been proved in the civil file that Mr Amaral earned around 380,000 euros in one year from the book."

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/388686/McCanns-face-five-year-wait-in-libel-trial

Kate and Gerry will not have to go to court again if the do not wish...amarals assets will remain frozen...having said that I'm not sure how much truth there is in this story