Why didn't Bamber pay back the cash he robbed from the caravan park?

[Nicholas]

Very true. I have written, spoken at length on the phone and visited Jeremy many times. His mind is as sharp as a razor. In the visiting room he quoted case reference numbers, relevant dates etc and knows every detail. As for someone mentioning dementia that couldn’t be further from the truth. Holly quotes about Jeremy’s character and personality but hasn’t met him. Go and visit then you will see him for yourself. Please don’t make comments about his state of mind etc when you have no idea what he is like.

Interesting isn't it Daisy that Bamber appears to have given Holly, for example, the impression he doesn't know much about his case?

[Nicholas]

Who were the witnesses Bamber used for his defence?



http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
"Other evidence of the appellant's dislike of his family 116. Other evidence was given which supported the evidence of Miss Mugford that the appellant disliked his family. Mary Mugford (Julie's mother) said the appellant had often told her that he hated his adoptive mother and he described her as quite mad.

117. During the winter of 1984 the appellant told one of the farm workers, "I'm not going to share my money with my sister" and he had always given the impression he did not get on with Sheila Caffell.

118. James Richards, another student from Goldsmiths College who had met the appellant through Julie Mugford, heard him talk of his parents in about February 1985. He claimed they kept him short of money and that his mother was a religious freak. He said, "I f..king hate my parents".

119. In about March 1985, in the context of a discussion about the security at the Osea Road caravan site, the appellant told his uncle Robert Boutflour, "… I could kill anybody … I could easily kill my parents".

120. Witnesses were called on the appellant's behalf in respect of this aspect of the case. They included a sales representative and a chartered surveyor who said they had met the appellant and his father and that they had never heard the appellant say anything nasty about his family.

[Nicholas]

Very true. I have written, spoken at length on the phone and visited Jeremy many times. His mind is as sharp as a razor. In the visiting room he quoted case reference numbers, relevant dates etc and knows every detail. As for someone mentioning dementia that couldn’t be further from the truth. Holly quotes about Jeremy’s character and personality but hasn’t met him. Go and visit then you will see him for yourself. Please don’t make comments about his state of mind etc when you have no idea what he is like.

Carol Ann Lee said about him, "with a magpie mind for the minutiae of his case."

She also said;

"Even though she found him extremely well informed about the details of his case, he was often “evasive” when asked difficult questions.

“Although extremely personable, at the same time he is frequently arrogant, manipulative and swift to dispense with friendships that no longer serve a purpose to his campaign,” says Lee.

"He said a number of people were writing books [about the case] but none from the family aspect.

"He speaks so well of them, while admitting there were problems.”

Lee discovered that the killings, rather than coming out of the blue as they appeared at the time, were actually the culmination of years of rising tensions within the family.

Highly regarded in their community Nevill Bamber, Jeremy’s father, was a magistrate and his mother June a churchwarden.

They adopted their son when he was just six weeks old.

“He was a happy little boy who wanted to be just like his daddy but around the age of 10 he became very superior.

“By the time he was a teenager, the Bambers’ fiercely guarded respectability was beginning to breed resentment in Jeremy and anxiety in his sister Sheila,” says Lee

"There were times Jeremy admits he felt very angry towards his mother but he says he never hated her.”

He says now that he regrets his part in the arguments.

“Not long before her murder, June told a friend that she wished she had been more easy-going.

"She said she just wanted Jeremy to be happy and to be close to God,” says Lee.

One explanation for Jeremy’s behaviour is that he is a psychopath – without empathy.

And indeed about the age of 10 he had a reputation for being cruel to animals.

[Nicholas]

“I noticed in the later stage of our correspondence that when I asked him questions that were more searching of him, and where I’d found a couple of discrepancies, he would send a letter in which he would say ‘I’m really sorry I haven’t answered your questions’.

“I haven’t said it in the book but I feel he did not want to answer those questions because they were too difficult for him,” she adds.

There were only two occasions when Lee’s questions irritated him.

“One occasion came after I had taken a taxi into town and was told by the driver that he used to teach rugby at the prison.

"He said Jeremy never took part and described him as ‘the most evil man in Britain’.

"I asked Jeremy: ‘How does it feel to have someone describe you like that?’

"He told me that it hurts and said, ‘I’m not that person’.”

Lee is sanguine about her dealings with Jeremy.

“He clearly never believed I would remain impartial and of course it can never be a friendship.

“Speaking movingly about his family could have been a means to an end, and from the first letter, when he flattered me and said he had read one of my books, you do wonder about manipulation https://www.express.co.uk/news/history/595845/Inside-the-mind-of-a-murderer-Carol-Ann-Lee-Jeremy-Bamber

[Nicholas]

wonder who posted the comments under the article:

2 Comments
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829 days ago
LEJ
I've read most of the books on Jeremy Bamber. Some are comprehensive and deal with the evidence, others are bias and pick and choose who they interview and which view to take. This is one of the latter ones. Even before reading the book itself, the promotion material is riddled with misconceptions, including the people she claims have never before been interviewed. There is a certain Chris Bews that has taken part in dozens of tv interviews, each time with a different version of events, and yet she uses him as a never before interviewed reliable source. Also, claiming to have permission from Bambers legal team is just to make her sound more professional, as she didn't need permission. This is a sensationalist crime writer who's only concern is writing the book that will make her the most money. If you are interested in an unbias version, check out Evil: Almost Beyond Belief? by Scott Lomax. It doesn't include the most recently released evidence, but it does cover the entire case in-depth. 

[Nicholas]

Jeremy Bamber had a reputation at the age of 10 of being cruel to animals http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/what-drives-people-to-torture-animals-9844721.html

"Another ‘triad’ of psychological factors that have been associated with IATC are three specific characteristics of personality – Machiavellianism, narcissism, and psychopathy (the so-called ‘Dark Triad’). Studies carried out by Dr. Phillip Kavanagh and his colleagues have examined the relationship between the three Dark Triad personality traits and attitudes towards animal abuse and self-reported acts of animal cruelty. They found that the psychopathy trait is related to intentionally hurting or torturing animals, and was also a composite measure of all three Dark Triad traits.https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-excess/201611/the-psychology-animal-torture

[Nicholas]

Well said Puglove. Despite having hundreds of alleged supporters the J B Campaign has around £1000 in the bank! I have just viewed the accounts. If people believe he is a genuine MOJ why not give money for those much needed forensic tests which will prove his innocence (not)!! When he was begging me for money he claimed those tests had already been done and just needed paying for.

I wonder how much he spends on things like gambling and drugs each week Daisy?

Seems the Campaign Team are tired of using their own money to fund Bamber http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/donations-for-costs

How long before they all realise they are being robbed blind?

[Nicholas]

Carol Ann Lee said about him, "with a magpie mind for the minutiae of his case."

She also said;

"Even though she found him extremely well informed about the details of his case, he was often “evasive” when asked difficult questions.

“Although extremely personable, at the same time he is frequently arrogant, manipulative and swift to dispense with friendships that no longer serve a purpose to his campaign,” says Lee.

"He said a number of people were writing books [about the case] but none from the family aspect.

"He speaks so well of them, while admitting there were problems.”

Lee discovered that the killings, rather than coming out of the blue as they appeared at the time, were actually the culmination of years of rising tensions within the family.

Highly regarded in their community Nevill Bamber, Jeremy’s father, was a magistrate and his mother June a churchwarden.

They adopted their son when he was just six weeks old.

“He was a happy little boy who wanted to be just like his daddy but around the age of 10 he became very superior.

“By the time he was a teenager, the Bambers’ fiercely guarded respectability was beginning to breed resentment in Jeremy and anxiety in his sister Sheila,” says Lee

"There were times Jeremy admits he felt very angry towards his mother but he says he never hated her.”

He says now that he regrets his part in the arguments.

“Not long before her murder, June told a friend that she wished she had been more easy-going.

"She said she just wanted Jeremy to be happy and to be close to God,” says Lee.

One explanation for Jeremy’s behaviour is that he is a psychopath – without empathy.

And indeed about the age of 10 he had a reputation for being cruel to animals.

.....around the age of 10


Lookout posts today:

"Steve,he'd proved to be what he was at the age of 10. Nobody seems to understand nor grasp how evil manifests itself in future years. Too many do-gooders busy wailing " he's only a child himself " with no mention about him having been an evil one. Commit such a heinous crime at 10 and there's nothing down for that person except a continued life of crime.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8979.msg425653.html#msg425653

She then goes on to post:
"You should worry. I've never been on any blooming fence but I get what for from all quarters just because I support an innocent man. Surely it's my prerogative and my views should be respected and not shunned ?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8182.msg425669.html#msg425669


Interestingly, poor judgement and insight, which lookouts posts show more often than not, is linked to borderline personality disorder, bi polar and schizophrenia



"Researchers have shown that many mentally ill patients with Depression and Schizophrenia have lesser levels of insight and judgmental abilities making it difficult for them to cope and deal with their situation. Poor insight and judgment are also linked with "Borderline Personality Disorders" (BPD), which leads to serious mental illness marked by unstable mood, relationships and behavior.

https://www.epainassist.com/mental-health/what-does-poor-insight-and-judgment-mean

Anosognosia is the single largest reason why individuals with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder do not take their medications. The term used by neurologist is “anosognosia,” which comes from the Greek word for disease (nosos) and knowledge (gnosis). It literally means “to not know a disease.” This impaired awareness of illness is caused by damage to specific parts of the brain, and affects approximately 50 percent of individuals with schizophrenia and 40 percent of individuals with bipolar disorder; this is especially true if the person also has delusions and/or hallucinations. Medications can improve awareness in some patients, consumers, and clients.

http://www.askferc.org/uploads/docs/resources/lack_of_insight.pdf

[Nicholas]

Jailing him for life, initially with a minimum term of 25 years, Mr Justice Drake told Bamber:


“Your conduct in planning and carrying out the killing of five members of your family was evil almost beyond belief.

"It shows that you, young man though you are, have a warped, callous and evil mind concealed beneath an outwardly presentable and civilized manner.

“I believe you did so partly out of greed because, although you were well off for your age, you were impatient for more money and possessions. But I believe you also killed out of an arrogance in your character which made you resent any form of parental restriction or criticism of your behaviour."




In other words a psychopath..

[adam]

.....around the age of 10


Lookout posts today:

"Steve,he'd proved to be what he was at the age of 10. Nobody seems to understand nor grasp how evil manifests itself in future years. Too many do-gooders busy wailing " he's only a child himself " with no mention about him having been an evil one. Commit such a heinous crime at 10 and there's nothing down for that person except a continued life of crime.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8979.msg425653.html#msg425653

She then goes on to post:
"You should worry. I've never been on any blooming fence but I get what for from all quarters just because I support an innocent man. Surely it's my prerogative and my views should be respected and not shunned ?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8182.msg425669.html#msg425669


Interestingly, poor judgement and insight, which lookouts posts show more often than not, is linked to borderline personality disorder, bi polar and schizophrenia



"Researchers have shown that many mentally ill patients with Depression and Schizophrenia have lesser levels of insight and judgmental abilities making it difficult for them to cope and deal with their situation. Poor insight and judgment are also linked with "Borderline Personality Disorders" (BPD), which leads to serious mental illness marked by unstable mood, relationships and behavior.

https://www.epainassist.com/mental-health/what-does-poor-insight-and-judgment-mean

Anosognosia is the single largest reason why individuals with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder do not take their medications. The term used by neurologist is “anosognosia,” which comes from the Greek word for disease (nosos) and knowledge (gnosis). It literally means “to not know a disease.” This impaired awareness of illness is caused by damage to specific parts of the brain, and affects approximately 50 percent of individuals with schizophrenia and 40 percent of individuals with bipolar disorder; this is especially true if the person also has delusions and/or hallucinations. Medications can improve awareness in some patients, consumers, and clients.

http://www.askferc.org/uploads/docs/resources/lack_of_insight.pdf

Lookout has been consistent with her innocent stance. Based on her gut feeling in 1985. 

Only two supporters were former guilters as far as I know. Nugs claims he was a guilter but does not elaborate. He  has always been a conspiracy theorist since I joined the Blue forum.

David knows Bamber is guilty but quietly changed stance & hoped no one would notice as he had no valid reason for the change. His stance change was because he realised he could goad more as a supporter.

I don't believe any of the other remaining supporters were ever guilters.

[Caroline]

Carol Ann Lee said about him, "with a magpie mind for the minutiae of his case."

She also said;

"Even though she found him extremely well informed about the details of his case, he was often “evasive” when asked difficult questions.

“Although extremely personable, at the same time he is frequently arrogant, manipulative and swift to dispense with friendships that no longer serve a purpose to his campaign,” says Lee.

"He said a number of people were writing books [about the case] but none from the family aspect.

"He speaks so well of them, while admitting there were problems.”

Lee discovered that the killings, rather than coming out of the blue as they appeared at the time, were actually the culmination of years of rising tensions within the family.

Highly regarded in their community Nevill Bamber, Jeremy’s father, was a magistrate and his mother June a churchwarden.

They adopted their son when he was just six weeks old.

“He was a happy little boy who wanted to be just like his daddy but around the age of 10 he became very superior.

“By the time he was a teenager, the Bambers’ fiercely guarded respectability was beginning to breed resentment in Jeremy and anxiety in his sister Sheila,” says Lee

"There were times Jeremy admits he felt very angry towards his mother but he says he never hated her.”

He says now that he regrets his part in the arguments.

“Not long before her murder, June told a friend that she wished she had been more easy-going.

"She said she just wanted Jeremy to be happy and to be close to God,” says Lee.

One explanation for Jeremy’s behaviour is that he is a psychopath – without empathy.

And indeed about the age of 10 he had a reputation for being cruel to animals.

I beloeve that I have said this many times - when more than one person has had the same experience at different times and has reported it individually, I really don't understand why others don't accept it?

[Nicholas]

I beloeve that I have said this many times - when more than one person has had the same experience at different times and has reported it individually]b] I really don't understand why others don't accept it?[/b]

Cognitive bias maybe?

"A cognitive bias refers to the systematic pattern of deviation from norm or rationality in judgment, whereby inferences about other people and situations may be drawn in an illogical fashion. Individuals create their own "subjective social reality" from their perception of the input.

Lookouts cognitive bias is there for all to see. I imagine if Jeremy Bamber himself were to confess to her his crimes it's unlikely she would believe him.

She speaks of herself regularly, putting details of her life into the public domain, and I get the sense she really does have quite a lot in common with Bamber - or at least she thinks she does.

It's interesting that's she's sided with Bamber over and above his sister and her bias appears to be what gives her the impression Jeremy Bamber is normal - when in fact he's anything but.

Maybe there are some clues here?


Lookout today:
"Sheila blew hot and cold whether on medication or not,something which ANYONE can and does do but it doesn't mean to say that they are sufferers of schizophrenia. Chronic depression has the SAME symptoms as does bi-polar.
Sheila had a normal life and if she'd kept away from her mother she'd still be alive.There was nothing wrong with the girl that couldn't have been sorted,properly. It was a psychological disorder that should have been rectified and from what I can gather it involved her erratic behaviour,which wouldn't necessarily have meant a schizophrenic condition as she'd appeared rational  for most of the time.
Nobody understood the girl unfortunately.

[Nicholas]

Cognitive bias maybe?

"A cognitive bias refers to the systematic pattern of deviation from norm or rationality in judgment, whereby inferences about other people and situations may be drawn in an illogical fashion. Individuals create their own "subjective social reality" from their perception of the input.

Lookouts cognitive bias is there for all to see. I imagine if Jeremy Bamber himself were to confess to her his crimes it's unlikely she would believe him.

She speaks of herself regularly, putting details of her life into the public domain, and I get the sense she really does have quite a lot in common with Bamber - or at least she thinks she does.

It's interesting that's she's sided with Bamber over and above his sister and her bias appears to be what gives her the impression Jeremy Bamber is normal - when in fact he's anything but.

Maybe there are some clues here?


Lookout today:
"Sheila blew hot and cold whether on medication or not,something which ANYONE can and does do but it doesn't mean to say that they are sufferers of schizophrenia. Chronic depression has the SAME symptoms as does bi-polar.
Sheila had a normal life and if she'd kept away from her mother she'd still be alive.There was nothing wrong with the girl that couldn't have been sorted,properly. It was a psychological disorder that should have been rectified and from what I can gather it involved her erratic behaviour,which wouldn't necessarily have meant a schizophrenic condition as she'd appeared rational  for most of the time.
Nobody understood the girl unfortunately.

If SC had kept away from her mother she'd still be alive?

Statements such as these show Lookouts irrational thinking.

Maybe if she were the owner of a caravan park and was robbed by Jeremy Bamber (in order to teach her lesson, as he claimed was his motive for doing so) she'd feel differently about the whole case?

[Holly Goodhead]

I beloeve that I have said this many times - when more than one person has had the same experience at different times and has reported it individually, I really don't understand why others don't accept it?

But it's after the event.  You see it in all these cases.  The case of Christopher Jefferies offers up an excellent example.  All sorts of people crawled out the woodwork:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1343782/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Odd-truth-Christopher-Jefferies-great-teachers.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/dec/31/chris-jefferies

The case of David Bain is like a mirror image of JB's case in this regard.  DB now acquitted. 

The case of Colin Stagg is another example.  Perp (not CS) banged up.

It's just the stuff of witch hunts.   

[adam]

Cognitive bias maybe?

"A cognitive bias refers to the systematic pattern of deviation from norm or rationality in judgment, whereby inferences about other people and situations may be drawn in an illogical fashion. Individuals create their own "subjective social reality" from their perception of the input.

Lookouts cognitive bias is there for all to see. I imagine if Jeremy Bamber himself were to confess to her his crimes it's unlikely she would believe him.

She speaks of herself regularly, putting details of her life into the public domain, and I get the sense she really does have quite a lot in common with Bamber - or at least she thinks she does.

It's interesting that's she's sided with Bamber over and above his sister and her bias appears to be what gives her the impression Jeremy Bamber is normal - when in fact he's anything but.

Maybe there are some clues here?


Lookout today:
"Sheila blew hot and cold whether on medication or not,something which ANYONE can and does do but it doesn't mean to say that they are sufferers of schizophrenia. Chronic depression has the SAME symptoms as does bi-polar.
Sheila had a normal life and if she'd kept away from her mother she'd still be alive.There was nothing wrong with the girl that couldn't have been sorted,properly. It was a psychological disorder that should have been rectified and from what I can gather it involved her erratic behaviour,which wouldn't necessarily have meant a schizophrenic condition as she'd appeared rational  for most of the time.
Nobody understood the girl unfortunately.

Lookout is Lookout & won't budge from her gut feeling from 1985.

I did offer her the chance to PM me prior to a stance change after other supporters had changed stamce. A mountain of evidence had been posted highlighting Bamber's guilt & is still being posted. However she posted that 'hell would freeze over before I change stance.

People are entitled to believe in the industrial frame. However David, JackieD, Mike, Bill & Roch saying they have photo's or information that benefit Bamber, but they won't post, just creates unfair false hope for posters like Lookout. The CT are all over Youtube & the internet whenever they believe they have new evidence. So there is no reason why postersp should not back up their claims.