Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.

[pathfinder73]

The point I am trying to make is that only dogs trained solely on human remains should have been deployed, which would have made the results far more difficult to counter.
Keela, you remember, was also an "experiment", not trained in the standard manner.

Eddie alerted to Harron's body that lay in the bedroom for one hour. Forensics found nothing in the bedroom and no pigs went missing.

Northern Ireland, UK
A missing person, last seen returning from church, on foot, in N. Ireland. The search of suspects 'burnt out vehicle' by forensic scientists did not reveal any evidence. A search by the E.V.R.D. identified a position in the rear passenger foot well where the dog alerted to the presence of human material. A sample was taken and when analysed revealed the victims' DNA. The enquiry then concentrated its efforts on the suspect and the E.V.R.D. located the body of the woman in a river bank deposition site. Further searches identified a location where the E.V.R.D. alerted in the front bedroom of the offenders empty next door dwelling house. When interviewed the suspect admitted that the body had lain in the room for 1 hour prior to disposal. Forensic teams were unable to extract any forensic evidence despite being shown the exact position.

[misty]

Eddie alerted to Harron's body that lay in the bedroom for one hour. Forensics found nothing in the bedroom and no pigs went missing.

Northern Ireland, UK
A missing person, last seen returning from church, on foot, in N. Ireland. The search of suspects 'burnt out vehicle' by forensic scientists did not reveal any evidence. A search by the E.V.R.D. identified a position in the rear passenger foot well where the dog alerted to the presence of human material. A sample was taken and when analysed revealed the victims' DNA. The enquiry then concentrated its efforts on the suspect and the E.V.R.D. located the body of the woman in a river bank deposition site. Further searches identified a location where the E.V.R.D. alerted in the front bedroom of the offenders empty next door dwelling house. When interviewed the suspect admitted that the body had lain in the room for 1 hour prior to disposal. Forensic teams were unable to extract any forensic evidence despite being shown the exact position.

Battered to death but no forensics?
I think the pigs must have been in flight at the time.

[faithlilly]

The point I am trying to make is that only dogs trained solely on human remains should have been deployed, which would have made the results far more difficult to counter.

Why ?

[sadie]

The US dogs are not trained on pig cadaver. Eddie was trained on both. How did he distinguish between the two?
The PJ were aware of exactly how almost all UK dogs were trained prior to them arriving in August.

How interesting. 


So Eddie would have alerted to a joint of pork, or to a crumb of pork sandwich? .... even bacon?


Eddies olfactory senses are exquisitely honed, I believe.    Would he have alerted to the scent from a person who had been dealing with pork, (either raw or cooked) tranferred by touch to some other object?

[Lyall]

Maybe smokey bacon crisps too Sadie

[misty]

Why ?

http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm
23/07/2007

 Madeleine McCann Search Decision Support Document


*snip"

 .

 Search Asset Profile

 Victim recovery dogs (VRDs) are also known as body or cadaver dogs. They are used in many countries to assist the police in locating concealed human remains. In the UK, police dogs are used that are trained and licensed to a national standard.

 Pig carcasses are used to train the dogs in the UK as it is not legal to use human cadavers. This is an established training method and enables the dogs to successfully detect human remains in operational case work.

 Enhanced training to produce a EVRD.
The training of a VRD provides an alert response using Ivan Pavlov's theory of producing a conditioned reflex, in this case barking, to the presence of detected decomposing human/pig flesh, bone, body fluid and blood. The dog will bark, whether or not it is able to get to the source of the scent. The benefit of this reflex is that the dog will respond whenever the target scent is present.
 This enables the dog to be used in an investigative role, assisting experts in other fields, such as, geophysics
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The PJ knew the cadaver dog would react to pig as well as human remains.

[Mr Gray]

Cadaver odour takes around one and a half to two hours to develop. The McCanns left the apartment at 8.30-8.45. Madeleine disappeared before 10pm. The maths really isn't difficult.

If the dogs are correct Madeleine must have been dead before her parents left the apartment and it is for that fact alone that the dogs credibility has to be undermined.

are you suggesting the dogs might be wrong!

[slartibartfast]

How interesting. 


So Eddie would have alerted to a joint of pork, or to a crumb of pork sandwich? .... even bacon?


Eddies olfactory senses are exquisitely honed, I believe.    Would he have alerted to the scent from a person who had been dealing with pork, (either raw or cooked) tranferred by touch to some other object?

It's not pork its pig.

[pathfinder73]

How interesting. 


So Eddie would have alerted to a joint of pork, or to a crumb of pork sandwich? .... even bacon?


Eddies olfactory senses are exquisitely honed, I believe.    Would he have alerted to the scent from a person who had been dealing with pork, (either raw or cooked) tranferred by touch to some other object?

Go ask Adrian Prout if he had a pork sandwich on his sofa?

[ferryman]

Go ask Adrian Prout if he had a pork sandwich on his sofa?

It's doubtful he had one in the shooting lodge, where Prout murdered Kate ...

[lordpookles]

These dogs are not supposed to alert to bacon sandwiches! I can point you to a Q&A with a dog handler when I have time who categorically states this is not the case.

[Benice]

These dogs are not supposed to alert to bacon sandwiches! I can point you to a Q&A with a dog handler when I have time who categorically states this is not the case.

I believe Eddie was trained not to alert to cooked meat including burgers, sausages or bacon sandwiches etc.   However IIRC it is also claimed that Eddie alerted to the remains of a piece of pork which had been soaked in petrol and then set alight.   Wouldn't that qualify as 'cooked' meat?

[faithlilly]

Maybe smokey bacon crisps too Sadie

 

[Brietta]

These dogs are not supposed to alert to bacon sandwiches! I can point you to a Q&A with a dog handler when I have time who categorically states this is not the case.

You have watched the Eddie videos?

Then you will have watched Eddie retrieve a food item from a kitchen waste bin in one of the apartments ... whether or not that was a bacon sandwich ... it was an action outwith the parameters of his training. 

[pathfinder73]

It's doubtful he had one in the shooting lodge, where Prout murdered Kate ...

I suggest you watch the full documentary - they said Kate Prout was strangled to death where Eddie alerted.