Author Topic: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.  (Read 180921 times)

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Offline jassi

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #120 on: January 22, 2015, 07:51:56 PM »
No, it is a hypothesis based on the fact that Eddie would alert to dead pig and there was an absence of forensic evidence to substantiate human cadaver contact.

So what is this about rifling through clothing?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline misty

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #121 on: January 22, 2015, 07:58:20 PM »
So what is this about rifling through clothing?

An intruder looking for cash. Many people hide valuables/cash in a wardrobe or drawer under clothes.

Offline jassi

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #122 on: January 22, 2015, 07:59:35 PM »
Which intruder would this be, then?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Anna

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #123 on: January 22, 2015, 08:18:30 PM »
Which intruder would this be, then?

Was there not a few burglaries in the area at that time?
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline jassi

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #124 on: January 22, 2015, 08:19:53 PM »
Was there not a few burglaries in the area at that time?

There may have been but no evidence that one occurred in 5A that week.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Anna

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #125 on: January 22, 2015, 08:28:48 PM »
There may have been but no evidence that one occurred in 5A that week.

Would there be evidence if they were disturbed? as was thought by SC.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline jassi

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #126 on: January 22, 2015, 08:30:33 PM »
Would there be evidence if they were disturbed? as was thought by SC.

I would have thought so, as they would have been in a panic, but as it didn't happen, they weren't
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Anna

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #127 on: January 22, 2015, 08:33:17 PM »
I would have thought so, as they would have been in a panic, but as it didn't happen, they weren't

So no crime and no panic=no evidence. Ok, jassi.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #128 on: January 22, 2015, 09:54:07 PM »
Hypothetically, Eddie could have been alerting to areas in 5a which a pig farmer had been in contact with (the alerts in the Scenic already having forensic corroboration).

That is a very clever hypothosis, if I may say.

Perhaps that is why SY wanted to 'interview' a pig farmer. He may have had blood on him and may have been in that apartment before the McCanns went on holiday...
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline misty

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #129 on: January 22, 2015, 11:23:10 PM »
That is a very clever hypothosis, if I may say.

Perhaps that is why SY wanted to 'interview' a pig farmer. He may have had blood on him and may have been in that apartment before the McCanns went on holiday...

Not blood, but he may well have been in contact with dead pigs. The point I have been trying to make is that the ambiguity of Eddie's alerts, because of his training, opens up the possibility of something other than human cadaver scent in that apartment & on the clothes. Had FBI dogs been used, the results may have been somewhat different.

Offline Brietta

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #130 on: January 23, 2015, 03:30:25 PM »
Not blood, but he may well have been in contact with dead pigs. The point I have been trying to make is that the ambiguity of Eddie's alerts, because of his training, opens up the possibility of something other than human cadaver scent in that apartment & on the clothes. Had FBI dogs been used, the results may have been somewhat different.

Excellent post, Misty.

Once trained ... they cannot be untrained.

If they are trained on pig they will react to pig ... whether or not training on human remains is introduced at a later stage. 

For example, Keela was trained exclusively using human blood and we are told reacted to nothing else.

Some American dogs, are trained exclusively on products from human remains and are therefore conditioned to react to nothing else.  Making your point valid regarding FBI VRDs trained exclusively on human remains.

Interestingly, Martin Grime is on record that his dogs did not react to pseudo scents.

VRDs are capable of being fooled by methane which is a product of human decomposition ... in a property occupied by at least four other families then closed prior to inspection by the VRD ... Eddie could have been excited inside by the same odour he encountered in the pathway outside 5a ... no-one will ever know.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #131 on: January 23, 2015, 03:37:42 PM »
Excellent post, Misty.

Once trained ... they cannot be untrained.

If they are trained on pig they will react to pig ... whether or not training on human remains is introduced at a later stage. 

For example, Keela was trained exclusively using human blood and we are told reacted to nothing else.

Some American dogs, are trained exclusively on products from human remains and are therefore conditioned to react to nothing else.  Making your point valid regarding FBI VRDs trained exclusively on human remains.

Interestingly, Martin Grime is on record that his dogs did not react to pseudo scents.

VRDs are capable of being fooled by methane which is a product of human decomposition ... in a property occupied by at least four other families then closed prior to inspection by the VRD ... Eddie could have been excited inside by the same odour he encountered in the pathway outside 5a ... no-one will ever know.

Keela found no blood on the clothes. Eddie was specially trained to detect even the faintest cadaver scent as Keela was specially trained to alert to the blood even after it had been washed clean. Grime trained the dogs daily. That's why they were the best and Mark Harrison and the FBI used them.

"He has additionally trained exclusively using human remains in the U.S.A. in association with the F.B.I. The enhanced training of the dog has also involved the use of collection of 'cadaver scent' odour from human corpses using remote technical equipment which does not contact the subject."
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline sadie

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #132 on: January 23, 2015, 03:40:32 PM »
Keela found no blood on the clothes. Eddie was specially trained to detect even the faintest cadaver scent as Keela was specially trained to alert to the blood even after it had been washed clean. Grime trained the dogs daily. That's why they were the best and Mark Harrison and the FBI used them.

"He has additionally trained exclusively using human remains in the U.S.A. in association with the F.B.I. The enhanced training of the dog has also involved the use of collection of 'cadaver scent' odour from human corpses using remote technical equipment which does not contact the subject."
He also alerted to dead pig and pork

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #133 on: January 23, 2015, 03:44:01 PM »
He also alerted to dead pig and pork

Why do you keep promoting this myth about pork?
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #134 on: January 23, 2015, 03:44:27 PM »
He also alerted to dead pig and pork

I think you'll find a dead pig has never been inside that apartment, wearing their clothes or taking a ride in their car.

"False' positives are always a possibility; to date Eddie has not so indicated operationally or in training. In six years of operational deployment in over 200 criminal case searches the dog has never alerted to meat based and specifically pork foodstuffs designed for human consumption. Similarly the dog has never alerted to 'road kill', that is any other dead animal."
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.