Author Topic: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.  (Read 181110 times)

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Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #525 on: July 04, 2019, 07:07:39 AM »

You have watched the Eddie videos?

Then you will have watched Eddie retrieve a food item from a kitchen waste bin in one of the apartments ... whether or not that was a bacon sandwich ... it was an action outwith the parameters of his training.

It’s probably important to know that he doesn’t alert to the food in the bin in the same way he does to the cupboard in the apartment bedroom.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #526 on: July 04, 2019, 07:16:16 AM »
It comes back to that bag in the wardrobe.  It is in the photo taken at night but doesn't appear to be there in the next day photo.  Who moved that bag and when?

The bag in the first photo is pictured almost exactly where Eddie alerts.

Also with regards to the time cadaver odour first starts to develop the times quoted on the previous page are averages. The decay process of vertebrates begins rapidly after death (i.e. "four minutes after death") [Vass, A.A. Understanding Human Decomposition] and leads to the release of postmortem compounds in the ecosystem . These cadaveric compounds, mainly volatile organic compounds (VOCs), are by- or end-products of the decay process. Using dogs it has been shown to be detectable as soon as 30 85 minutes after the time of death (Cadaver Scent Project)

For a possible time of death, IMO, we need to look at the period between the last independent sighting and 30-60 at least 85 minutes before the latest reported time that the alarm was raised (22:15). Another possibility would be to conclude that Eddie alerted to blood behind the sofa and not cadaver odour. In addition a body may have been concealed in the cupboard in 5A and removed some hours later. This last scenario (which seems unlikely due to the risk of detection) would rule out GM being the man Martin Smith saw carrying a child.

 Another scenario that would explain Eddie's alerts only at locations directly associated with the McCann's would be that someone using the McCann's apartment or hire car or items of clothing has been in close proximity with a corpse and had introduced cross contamination. Is there any truth in the stories that KM tried to explain away the alerts by saying she had attended a number of post mortems and she had taken her daughter's favorite comfort toy with her!?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 03:39:53 AM by Billy Whizz Fan Club »

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #527 on: July 04, 2019, 07:23:08 AM »
The bag in the first photo is pictured almost exactly where Eddie alerts.

Also with regards to the time cadaver odour first starts to develop the times quoted on the previous page are averages. It has been reported to be detectable as soon as 30 minutes after the time of death.

For a possible time, IMO, we need to look at the period between the last independent sighting and 30-60 minutes before the latest reported time that the alarm was raised (22:15)
Do you have a cite for this?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #528 on: July 04, 2019, 07:49:33 AM »
Do you have a cite for this?
Yes. It’s in the interview between Grime and the PJ. I can find it after work.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #529 on: July 04, 2019, 07:55:42 AM »
Yes. It’s in the interview between Grime and the PJ. I can find it after work.
OK but I was rather hoping for a link to some independent research on the subject.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #530 on: July 04, 2019, 08:01:41 AM »
Yes. It’s in the interview between Grime and the PJ. I can find it after work.

did Grime ever give an interview with the PJ...do you mean the statements...strange Ive never seen this...I doubt you can provide a reliable cite
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 08:05:37 AM by Davel »

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #531 on: July 04, 2019, 08:08:19 AM »
I know next to nothing about these dogs.  In fact in an earlier post I ignorantly wrote them off as junk science akin to lie detector tests but it seems I'm wrong in this regard!

So one dogs sniffs out blood the other odour from a corpse?

But untrained dogs ie domestic pets sniff out menstrual fluid which contains blood?  Are the dogs capable of distinguishing source/type of blood?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/why-dogs-sniff-women-crotches-on-period_n_5ba2b72de4b0375f8f99b44b
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Lace

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #532 on: July 04, 2019, 08:10:26 AM »
It comes back to that bag in the wardrobe.  It is in the photo taken at night but doesn't appear to be there in the next day photo.  Who moved that bag and when?

Was the photo taken at night?   Is there proof it wasn't there the next day?

Somehow I can't see the McCann's carting a bag around with Madeleine's body in it on the night of Madeleine's disappearance with the Police present.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #533 on: July 04, 2019, 08:12:58 AM »
I know next to nothing about these dogs.  In fact in an earlier post I ignorantly wrote them off as junk science akin to lie detector tests but it seems I'm wrong in this regard!

So one dogs sniffs out blood the other odour from a corpse?

But untrained dogs ie domestic pets sniff out menstrual fluid which contains blood?  Are the dogs capable of distinguishing source/type of blood?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/why-dogs-sniff-women-crotches-on-period_n_5ba2b72de4b0375f8f99b44b

both dogs react to human blood from a live person. Not only that they will react to the tiniest spot of blood...even if it is not detectable by forensic scientists according to grime. imo...something that claims to be scientifically based but has no rael scientific basis is Junk Science

Offline Lace

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #534 on: July 04, 2019, 08:14:23 AM »
Come off it - you can see Eddie's behaviour change as he passes the car. This is explained by Grime in statements made to the PJ.. Just as his behaviour changes as he was approaching 5A. Now I have no training in this matter but as a lay observer I believe that the dog has detected what he is trained to alert to  (cadaver odour, human blood, pig corpses). You will have to cite your claim about the length of time for the searches. The entire video has been posted here and is in the PJ Files for anyone who wants to watch it.

PASSES the car,  you are correct there he did pass by the car and had to be called back.  5a had been shut up for a while there would have been a smell in there it was a warm day.   There is no evidence that suggests Eddie alerted to cadaver scent.   Nothing was found to indicate Madeleline had died in 5a.   Martin Grime even said on the Netflix documentary that Eddie could have alerted to ancient smells.   

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #535 on: July 04, 2019, 08:54:54 AM »
Interesting to note that in this report (reposted here to try and discredit the work of victim recovery and crime scene dogs) what we actually have is a correct alert to cadaver odour. In the Shannon Matthews case the alert was verified. It was discovered the "scent of death" was due to the corpse of the previous owner on furniture that was sold on the second hand market. In other words the dogs were doing exactly what they are trained to do - and doing it with verifiable accuracy.

It's also factually incorrect to state "nothing more was found" in the Madeleine McCann case. Human cellular material was found in both the hire car and in apartment 5A. This material was then sent to the FSS laboratory in the UK for forensic investigation. Low copy DNA results were "inconclusive" in terms of proving these human samples belonged to Madeleine McCann.

But if the "scent of death" is so acute it can be picked up off furniture previously owned by another how can we be sure something similar didn't happen with the McCanns?  Bearing in mind also the McCanns are medi doctors and work with the sick and dying. 

Re human cellular material (hct)

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1209.msg542101#msg542101
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #536 on: July 04, 2019, 08:57:14 AM »
But if the "scent of death" is so acute it can be picked up off furniture previously owned by another how can we be sure something similar didn't happen with the McCanns?  Bearing in mind also the McCanns are medi doctors and work with the sick and dying. 

Re human cellular material (hct)

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1209.msg542101#msg542101
Look up Zampo the cadaver dog
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #537 on: July 04, 2019, 09:14:12 AM »
Look up Zampo the cadaver dog

Do me a favour plse and just outline briefly your point.  Thanks.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #538 on: July 04, 2019, 09:20:42 AM »
because of the sensitivity of the dogs and the poor testing methods its not possible to say with any certainty that an alert is related to the case in question or evn is to cadaver scent. This hasnt been a real problem because the alerts were not seen as evidence having no evidential value. They were a guide as to where investigators should look for evidence,. This was the accepted view in 2007 but it seems grime has now moved the goal posts and wants the alerts to be seen as more than intelligence.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #539 on: July 04, 2019, 09:23:28 AM »
Do me a favour plse and just outline briefly your point.  Thanks.

It might help if you had not referred to the actions of those you are seeking help from as childish. You won't get any help from sceptics Re zampo but you might from supporters