Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.

[Mr Gray]

sil also needs to realise that any accident in 5a does not necessarily involve the shedding of any blood

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

You don't know as you admit. The question I have posed had not been answered... It's quite clear from what we do know that the tests were very simple...target odour or not

That's nonsense. The tests are documented in Forensic Science research articles. Many of these are peer reviewed. These people are forensic scientists - they are designing methods that work... that tell them something about time and location of death.

Please tell us exactly why you think they are flawed in the field. What is the science behind that? Why don't forensic scientists understand these simple failings?!!!

[jassi]

sil also needs to realise that any accident in 5a does not necessarily involve the shedding of any blood

Indeed. Had she accidentally drowned in the bath for example there would be no blood

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Indeed. Had she accidentally drowned in the bath for example there would be no blood

And Keela's alert was to blood unrelated to the McCann case?

[The General]

And Keela's alert was to blood unrelated to the McCann case?

That seems more likely a proposition than finding cadaver odour unrelated to the McCann case.

[Vertigo Swirl]

There's a lot of assuming going on.  Eddie nearly galloped down the path to 5a, before he got anywhere near the front door, and I very much doubt any cadaver odour would travel that far.  I think Eddie knew he was going for his fun game.

It would have been interesting to know how he would have reacted if 5a had been the last apartment of the day to be checked, would he have still been as bright eyed and bushy tailed, I wonder?

[Vertigo Swirl]

No alert by Eddie.... apart from an alert to blood, you mean? I still see the issue here. There was no blood found in the cupboard and Grime’s experience (plus lack of body) led him to conclude the scent in the cupboard might be airborne VOCs that had collected in that area because of the airflow in the unused apartment. Was any questions asked about that sports bag? Or did GA settle for Grime’s explanation?

One thing is almost certain. The source of the cadaver odour in 5A must have been in the apartment for a minimum of 85 minutes.

If that’s a definite, then would you like to have a go at estimating the time of death?

[Vertigo Swirl]

It’s of central importance. The time from 17:30 - 22:15 is of particular interest. To conclude Madeleine McCann’s death in the apartment that day you have to have a minimum of 85 minutes that she lay dead inside the apartment. Important to note that the body doesn’t need to be in one place. Is this possible between the last independent sighting and the alarm being raised?

Yes it’s possible that Madeleine was dead before the McCanns left the apartment, and if that is so, then we can almost certainly rule out an accident.  Got any theories as to what might have caused her death?

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

If that’s a definite, then would you like to have a go at estimating the time of death?

It's based on current results in trials documented in forensic science articles. Human decomposition has been studied in quite some detail including the release of cadaveric volatile organic compounds. It is these compounds that the dogs are trained to alert to. In terms of verified correct alerts trials have shown "the shortest post-mortem interval for which we received a correct response was one hour and 25 minutes".

[Vertigo Swirl]

It's based on current results in trials documented in forensic science articles. Human decomposition has been studied in quite some detail including the release of cadaveric volatile organic compounds. It is these compounds that the dogs are trained to alert to. In terms of verified correct alerts trials have shown "the shortest post-mortem interval for which we received a correct response was one hour and 25 minutes".

I meant what time Madeleine would have had to have died at or before in order to be the source of the alert.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

If that’s a definite, then would you like to have a go at estimating the time of death?

That's impossible without knowing when a body was removed from the apartment.

IMO and for the sake of an hypothesis let's suppose the body was removed 21:45. (Keeping the body in a bag in the cupboard overnight is surely too risky once an alarm has been raised). The latest time for a reliable estimate of a time of death is 20:20. The last independent sighting was somewhere around 17:30. IMO I would suggest time of death for this scenario must be between 17:30 and 20:20. Based on this hypothesis David Payne's evidence may be crucial. We need to explore the inconsistencies of his and Kate McCann's account of his visit to 5A, IMO.

[Mr Gray]

That's nonsense. The tests are documented in Forensic Science research articles. Many of these are peer reviewed. These people are forensic scientists - they are designing methods that work... that tell them something about time and location of death.

Please tell us exactly why you think they are flawed in the field. What is the science behind that? Why don't forensic scientists understand these simple failings?!!!

These tests are assessing a simple situation in controlled conditions.

Clean felt tiles vs tiles contaminated with cadaver odour.
That isn't how it is when the dogs work where there may be a multitude of odours...I've outlined a possible test a couple if days, ago.
The difference with other scent dogs is drug dogs only react to drugs... Eddie reacts to a multitude of scentsvand that's the problem

[barrier]

These tests are assessing a simple situation in controlled conditions.

Clean felt tiles vs tiles contaminated with cadaver odour.
That isn't how it is when the dogs work where there may be a multitude of odours...I've outlined a possible test a couple if days, ago.
The difference with other scent dogs is drug dogs only react to drugs... Eddie reacts to a multitude of scentsvand that's the problem

For who?

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Got any theories as to what might have caused her death?

No. You would need to examine the forensic evidence to give you that answer.

I've come across various scenarios: Falling from the sofa; falling from the sofa after ingesting sedative drugs; falling from the sofa after IV injection of drugs; drowning in the bath; allergic reaction to sedative drugs followed by unsuccessful CPR; falling from sofa followed by unsuccessful CPR. These are all just theories (as is abduction by a stranger) put forward on the internet. We would need a proper forensic investigation to truly establish the facts.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

These tests are assessing a simple situation in controlled conditions.

Clean felt tiles vs tiles contaminated with cadaver odour.
That isn't how it is when the dogs work where there may be a multitude of odours...I've outlined a possible test a couple if days, ago.
The difference with other scent dogs is drug dogs only react to drugs... Eddie reacts to a multitude of scentsvand that's the problem

With all respect I personally believe that forensic scientists have better research and evaluation methods of cadaver dog efficacy than does your good self.