Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Nah, we were about 12. At that age neither of us had experienced death.
He was a weird kid though.

Paul McCartney laughed hysterically when he was told of his mum’s death.  I remember reading this in Hunter Davies book about the Beatles as a kid and being quite shocked.  But now I realise it’s quite a normal reaction, but I think maybe you’d come across as quite manic and distressed to any onlooker despite the laughter.

[ShiningInLuz]

So it seems we are moving towards death prior to the McCanns leaving for dinner on the night of the 3rd.  So for this to be the case we must accept that the McCanns were ablee to appear completely untroubled by this event, to be happy for others to check on their apartment where they knew a dead child lay.  Who else knew about this situation?  In other  words who of their friends was covering up for them and why would they do so if Madeleine had had an accident?

I've just been watching an old case where this happened.

Man went to his birthday party, then nipped off home, strangled his wife, and strung her up from the banisters to fake suicide, before going back to his birthday party and having a jolly, leaving his two infants alone in his house with the body.

[pathfinder73]

What if they were?  Would you come out of the shower and a) call the emergency services or b) concoct an abduction scenario?  You could claim the accident happened after your shower so...

So if death happened and they didn't call help, that would suggest they were covering up something that was not an accident? Do you agree?

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Head and body injuries...no names given... Sounds very suspicious... So one is claimed but no name..no official cause of death... I'll have to rule that inadmissible

Falls are the most common cause of accidental home injury deaths. More common in the elderly but also one of the leading causes of accidental home injury deaths in children

Incidentally look at the picture they choose!! Uncanny.
https://www.asecurelife.com/home-accident-statistics/

You have a habit of inventing facts that do not stand up to scrutiny, then ignore uncomfortable truths such as the chances of Eddie and Keela suddenly making 11 false alerts that are all related to one family are pretty much as near to zero as you can get.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I've just been watching an old case where this happened.

Man went to his birthday party, then nipped off home, strangled his wife, and strung her up from the banisters to fake suicide, before going back to his birthday party and having a jolly, leaving his two infants alone in his house with the body.

That was premeditated murder.  Is that what happened here in your view?

[Vertigo Swirl]

So if death happened and they didn't call help, that would suggest they were covering up something that was not an accident? Do you agree?

Yes.  We must dispense with the notion of an accident once and for all and credit the McCanns with something far more sinister, if you want to make them the perpetrators.  I wonder if other sceptics will agree though?  Some seem reluctant to consider homicide.  Even the PJ at the time never explored that possibility it seems.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Falls are the most common cause of accidental home injury deaths. More common in the elderly but also one of the leading causes of accidental home injury deaths in children

Incidentally look at the picture they choose!! Uncanny.
https://www.asecurelife.com/home-accident-statistics/

You have a habit of inventing facts that do not stand up to scrutiny, then ignore uncomfortable truths such as the chances of Eddie and Keela suddenly making 11 false alerts that are all related to one family are pretty much as near to zero as you can get.

This fall would need to be near instantaneous to fit with any cover up theory, yet it seems extremely unlikely that a fall off a sofa would result in instant death.

[slartibartfast]

Because in tests with cadaver dogs we know that although cadaveric VOCs might start to be produced four minutes after death it takes 85 minutes before a trained and specialised dog can successfully detect the odour with a very high degree of accuracy. Therefore a corpse would have had to have been in the apartment for 85 minutes or more for there to be enough odour for Eddie to alert as he did

To be fair, for cross contamination, a corpse would need have been somewhere for 85 minutes before being “handled” and contaminated articles returned to 5a prior to the dog search.

[G-Unit]

Don’t you see that you are having to invent all sorts of wild and improbable scenarios in order to fit the dog alerts, anything rather than consider the possibility that the alerts were red herrings?  Surely the dog alerts should be used to corroborate other evidence rather than trying to hammer the other evidence into some sort of shape around the dog alerts?

I think Billy's scenario's are much less wild and improbable than those invented by the abduction supporters. He has invented no watchers, no strange ideas about bloodlines and no ridiculous suggestions about a cadaver dog alerting to anything and everything which doesn't emit the smell he was trained to detect.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I think Billy's scenario's are much less wild and improbable than those invented by the abduction supporters. He has invented no watchers, no strange ideas about bloodlines and no ridiculous suggestions about a cadaver dog alerting to anything and everything which doesn't emit the smell he was trained to detect.

That’s your belief.  With the exception of the bloodlines thing which is bonkers IMO, there is nothing wild or improbable about the apartment and its inhabitants being monitored by persons with criminal intent, it happens all the time.  And cadaver dogs DO alert to substances which are not cadavers and which did not necessarily come out of a cadaver, so that’s not nonsense either.

[Mr Gray]

To be fair, for cross contamination, a corpse would need have been somewhere for 85 minutes before being “handled” and contaminated articles returned to 5a prior to the dog search.

What I'm seeing here is when one invented scenario that has been held by many for 12 years and is still held by the previous lead investigator is shown not to fit the action is to invent another one.  So your explanation relies on Cross contamination.

So the perp... Having handled a corpse... Returns to 5a and contaminates an area behind the sofa.  The perp manages not to touch the door handle and everything else.  IMO Cross contamination would affect multiple accessible areas... I think you need to invent another scenario

[G-Unit]

That’s your belief.  With the exception of the bloodlines thing which is bonkers IMO, there is nothing wild or improbable about the apartment and its inhabitants being monitored by persons with criminal intent, it happens all the time.  And cadaver dogs DO alert to substances which are not cadavers and which did not necessarily come out of a cadaver, so that’s not nonsense either.

Whatever has happened in other cases theres absolutely no evidence that anyone was watching 5A or that Eddie ever alerted to smells he wasn't trained to alert to.

Now tell me what Billy has invented that is wild and improbable.

[Brietta]

Falls are the most common cause of accidental home injury deaths. More common in the elderly but also one of the leading causes of accidental home injury deaths in children

Incidentally look at the picture they choose!! Uncanny.
https://www.asecurelife.com/home-accident-statistics/

You have a habit of inventing facts that do not stand up to scrutiny, then ignore uncomfortable truths such as the chances of Eddie and Keela suddenly making 11 false alerts that are all related to one family are pretty much as near to zero as you can get.

Not really uncanny.  Didn't you see the blind cord?

Snip
Since 1999, 28 children in the UK have died after becoming tangled in blind cords.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3526089/Sixteen-month-old-girl-died-freak-accident-getting-tangled-cord-grandparents-window-blinds.html

Freak accidents do happen ... just as child abductions by stranger happen ... fortunately both are rare events.

[Mr Gray]

Whatever has happened in other cases theres absolutely no evidence that anyone was watching 5A or that Eddie ever alerted to smells he wasn't trained to alert to.

Now tell me what Billy has invented that is wild and improbable.

Theres no real evidence what Eddie alerted to... All we know from his handler is that it's possibly or suggestive of cadaver odour... With no figures to say how likely it is... That tells us nothing imo
Rex, Stockham realised this needed to be addressed with proper scientific tests but there is nothing to confirm this has been carried out. You may remember I have said fir a long time more, scientific tests were needed yet your opinion was the dogs couldn't be tested scientifically.... My judgement had been shown to be correct... Yours had shown to be wrong

[Mr Gray]

Whatever has happened in other cases theres absolutely no evidence that anyone was watching 5A or that Eddie ever alerted to smells he wasn't trained to alert to.

Now tell me what Billy has invented that is wild and improbable.

Children do not die by falling off sofas... The General found one case that he didn't realise was case and an obvious case if child abuse.  Death due to head injuries take many hours to happen .

There are many cases of stranger abduction... None if a child falling off a sofa and dying... Doesn't that tell you something