The Murders At White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee

[Anna]

Anna you may wish to read my post as follows:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6488.msg259043#msg259043

Unlike yourself where you have stated you are going to purchase the book, read it and then join in debate I'm afraid we have a number of posters who wish to debate the contents of the book without even bothering to read it!  This tends to be a male trait I am afraid!

Thanks Holly, I will read it before commenting .
 I do worry however, whether or not it is factual, or somewhat dramatized, which can be misleading.
Nobody except the real killer can know, with exact detail what happened, so I guess there would have to be some supposition. So I should have the book tomorrow and all will be revealed. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Thanks Holly, I will read it before commenting .
 I do worry however, whether or not it is factual, or somewhat dramatized, which can be misleading.
Nobody except the real killer can know, with exact detail what happened, so I guess there would have to be some supposition. So I should have the book tomorrow and all will be revealed. 

I agree totally.  It is based on people's perceptions of others and events and this will inevitably vary from reality.  There's very little input from the author.  She has simply pulled together all the various info from the various sources and attempted to put it into some sort of coherent narrative. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Who wrote this babble?  Blood in the moderator would have fried so no conclusions could be drawn?

The babble is all mine in terms of the sentence above 

The blood 'found' in the silencer was analysed based on blood serology.  Unlike DNA it is susceptible to degradation and should never be exposed to heat which is likely to destroy the enzymes and proteins:

Conventional serological analysis

"Analysis of the proteins, enzymes, and antigens present in the blood. These substances are more susceptible to degradation than DNA and this type of testing usually requires a "large" sample (quarter size) in good condition for optimal results. This type of testing is rarely statistically individualizing.

"Blood evidence must never be exposed to excessive heat or humidity. If possible, the bloodstained evidence should be refrigerated until it can be transported to the crime lab. The evidence should also be taken to the lab as soon as possible. The following are guidelines, listed in order of the author's preferences, for collecting and preserving blood evidence"

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/blood.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tJ7heDIqXU 

Did Malcolm Fletcher and John Hayward have the conversation ?  &%+((£

Table showing the victims' blood, enzyme and protein results:

                          ABO                    PGM                    EAP                     AK                    Hp

Nevill Bamber           O                        PGM1+                EAP BA               AK1                   Hp2-1
June Bamber            A                         PGM1+                EAP BA               AK2-1                Hp2-1
Daniel Caffell            O                        PGM2+1+            EAP B                 AK1                   Hp2
Nicholas Caffell         O                        PGM2+1+           EAP B                 AK1                    Hp2
Sheila Caffell            A                        PGM1+                EAP BA               AK1                    Hp2-1

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blood In Silencer      A                        Nil                        EAP BA              AK1                    Hp2-1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Robert Boutflour       A                         PGM1+                EAP BA              AK1                     Hp2-1

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ABO = Blood Group System

PGM = Phosphoglucomutase (Enzyme) Breaks down quickly outside the body hence blood in silencer was unable to produce a reading

EAP = Erythrocyte Acid Phosphatase (Enzyme)

AK = Adenylate Kinase (Enzyme)

HP = Haptoglobin (Protein)

[Holly Goodhead]

http://m.yorkpress.co.uk/news/13505382.Waterstones_book_launch_for_York_crime_writer/

Wow had I known CAL was doing a Q & A session I would have ventured North.  I'll get in touch with Andrea and Patti, being Yorkshire gals, and see if they can nip along with a tape.

I find the comments a little harsh.  CAL is not an advocate for JB nor is she a forensic scientist or QC.  She can only present the facts as they stand.  As far as I can see she has been very fair throughout the book.  I'm sure many who read the book will be left wondering if JB is the victim of a MoJ and might want to delve further. 

[Myster]

http://m.yorkpress.co.uk/news/13505382.Waterstones_book_launch_for_York_crime_writer/

Wow had I known CAL was doing a Q & A session I would have ventured North.  I'll get in touch with Andrea and Patti, being Yorkshire gals, and see if they can nip along with a tape.

I find the comments a little harsh.  CAL is not an advocate for JB nor is she a forensic scientist or QC.  She can only present the facts as they stand.  As far as I can see she has been very fair throughout the book.  I'm sure many who read the book will be left wondering if JB is the victim of a MoJ and might want to delve further.

What do you expect from members of Bamber's cranky fan club, Holly?  Shouldn't those misprints in their comments read - "Anyone who wishes to swallow baloney can go to www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk"?

Actually, I'm quite impressed by the book after a swift thumb-through this evening... (all thanks to S****'s extraordinary generosity!  I still owe you something, hun!)

There are several mistakes concerning the shooting sequence, and still no agreement amongst the experts as to the cause of those burn marks - rifle end (even though it didn't get hot enough by firing many times) or a poker. No mention that a stray shell-casing bouncing off the mantelpiece wall might have been responsible.

I reckon CAL's book is a suitable replacement for Wilkes, Powell and Caffell, now that they're all oop. A pity that it's not linen-bound like my copy of Wilkes which has taken quite a hammering without any pages falling out. Not so with the other two.

Anna's in for quite a read.

[Passer-by]

Hello:  I hope you don't mind me joining the discussion?  I had a theory or two I wondered if you had discussed, so joined to ask you.  One is about the burn marks, but I'm not sure if this is the thread to post it on as it's about the book?

[Myster]

Hello:  I hope you don't mind me joining the discussion?  I had a theory or two I wondered if you had discussed, so joined to ask you.  One is about the burn marks, but I'm not sure if this is the thread to post it on as it's about the book?

Hi Passer-by.

You could try looking here first...http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=292.0

... and then post at the end of page 8.

[puglove]

Hi Passer-by.

You could try looking here first...http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=292.0

... and then post at the end of page 8.

Ho ho!! Good luck with that!

A massive welcome, and I hope that you find what you're looking for. May I recommend Myster, Holly Goodhead and scipio usmc for excellent technical detail, Andrea for common sense and the voice of reason, and Tim Invictus and me for naughtiness and fun!   

[Myster]

Andrea's still searching for Keith Moon... Tim's gone AWOL, probably Yeti-hunting... and you, dearest, need to open up the boarded-up pub again. 

[Passer-by]

Thank you for the welcome:  I've read a lot of your discussions already! ;-)

[Holly Goodhead]

Andrea's still searching for Keith Moon... Tim's gone AWOL, probably Yeti-hunting... and you, dearest, need to open up the boarded-up pub again.

Can we have a free house with mirco brewery and Nobby's Nuts? 

[John]

So the question for those members who have read the book is, what if anything has Carol Ann Lee brought to the case in terms of evidence?

I might be cynical but surely had there been anything at all which supports Jerry's claim to innocence we would have heard it by now?

The silence is deafening!

[Holly Goodhead]

So the question for those members who have read the book is, what if anything has Carol Ann Lee brought to the case in terms of evidence?

I might be cynical but surely had there been anything at all which supports Jerry's claim to innocence we would have heard it by now?

The silence is deafening!

I don't think CAL ever claimed any earth shattering new revelations?  The author/book meets her/its objectives as stated on the covers flap?  I don't think it was ever possible to prove JB's "innocence" and doubt it ever will be.  Criminal trials are based on guilty beyond reasonable doubt or not guilty.  Convictions are quashed on the basis they are unsafe not necessarily that the defendant is innocent.   

The book provides a detailed analysis of all the main characters with their backgrounds and sets out everything clearly and fairly. 

I really need to re-read the book but based on my first reading my only criticism is that CAL has implied that the blood samples were sent to the lab directly from the pathologist.  This is incorrect the samples were handed to EP and held in the SoC fridge at Chelmsford police station.  DS Davidson was asked during his COLP interview whether he or others planted blood in the silencer.  According to CAL's book JB suggested to Geoffrey Rivlin blood was deliberately planted in the silencer.  There was plenty of scope for CAL to include a potential weakness in the plank of the prosecutions case against JB but she failed to do so.  Why?  Genuine oversight or wanted to hold back for whatever reason(s)  &%+((£

[Anna]

A fascinating book, which seems to have been extremely well researched.
I was pleasantly surprised at the inclusion of the wartime background of Neville and June.

A lot of experts have helped in the compilation of this book and it reflects in the accuracy and very realistic storyline therein .

Carol has written this powerful yet  sympathetic book, without portraying any  conclusions of her own feelings in the case.
It is up to the reader to decide from the evidence and history of the case alone, what they themselves conclude is the most likely scenario.


I sensed, blackmail, suffering, control and threats in the book. All to achieve ultimate goals……..Financial superiority, power, control and  in the case of Sheila and Jeremy, Love.

Being adopted back then was a very lonely place to be. You may feel a sense of belonging with your adoptive parents, but other family members could see you as a threat and not belonging to their bloodline. Only treating you as family to please or accommodate the adoptive parents.(while they were around)

I am not really interested in gory photos and how a gun works.
The way this story is set out to explain what happened, is all that is necessary for me, to know what occurred (that we know of, that is)

I admit that I knew very little about this case, so having it written in such an easy to imagine, manner, made it very easy to follow.


I made notes on a word processor page, as I read it and a lot of my conclusions proved to be correct as I continued my journey down the story.

Firstly I felt extremely sorry for the way that Sheila and Jeremy were controlled in every manner of how they conducted  their lives and how they were kept apart as a family. They probably didn’t fit in with all the charity work than June had to be seen doing.
I don’t believe they were adopted out of love.

I very soon came to the conclusion that it was almost impossible for Sheila to  have committed the murders, but I don’t believe that Jeremy did it either, or if he did it was not alone…….
Lots more I can say, but I would spoil the book  for others and there are still family members of June and Neville to consider, before I share my thoughts of what I think may have happened.

[Holly Goodhead]

A fascinating book, which seems to have been extremely well researched.
I was pleasantly surprised at the inclusion of the wartime background of Neville and June.

A lot of experts have helped in the compilation of this book and it reflects in the accuracy and very realistic storyline therein .

Carol has written this powerful yet  sympathetic book, without portraying any  conclusions of her own feelings in the case.
It is up to the reader to decide from the evidence and history of the case alone, what they themselves conclude is the most likely scenario.


I sensed, blackmail, suffering, control and threats in the book. All to achieve ultimate goals……..Financial superiority, power, control and  in the case of Sheila and Jeremy, Love.

Being adopted back then was a very lonely place to be. You may feel a sense of belonging with your adoptive parents, but other family members could see you as a threat and not belonging to their bloodline. Only treating you as family to please or accommodate the adoptive parents.(while they were around)

I am not really interested in gory photos and how a gun works.
The way this story is set out to explain what happened, is all that is necessary for me, to know what occurred (that we know of, that is)

I admit that I knew very little about this case, so having it written in such an easy to imagine, manner, made it very easy to follow.


I made notes on a word processor page, as I read it and a lot of my conclusions proved to be correct as I continued my journey down the story.

Firstly I felt extremely sorry for the way that Sheila and Jeremy were controlled in every manner of how they conducted  their lives and how they were kept apart as a family. They probably didn’t fit in with all the charity work than June had to be seen doing.
I don’t believe they were adopted out of love.

I very soon came to the conclusion that it was almost impossible for Sheila to  have committed the murders, but I don’t believe that Jeremy did it either, or if he did it was not alone…….
Lots more I can say, but I would spoil the book  for others and there are still family members of June and Neville to consider, before I share my thoughts of what I think may have happened.

Thanks Anna.  Interesting review from someone who hitherto knew little about the case.  I've read so few books I had no idea what to write for a review but I had a go and uploaded it to the Waterstones site (below).  I think you might start to find yourself torn between the McCann and WHF boards!

It seems a strange adoptive family even stranger than my own    Firstly June suffers a breakdown triggered by her decision to adopt SC requiring in-patient psychiatric care.  Upon returning to WHF a full-time nanny, Julia Saye, is employed to care for SC.  At 10 yoa SC is sent to boarding school miles from WHF and enrolled mid-term which can be difficult for a child/student in terms of slotting in.  During the summer of 1973 June asks AE to find SC some chores and teach her to cook.   

https://www.waterstones.com/books/reviews/isbn/9780283072215#review-70301